[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

None of these are "harem anime", though.

No, but they show that dull male leads aren't necessary to ensure that important female characters are popular stars of the show. I don't see why that would be less true in harem anime than in any other anime genre. I mean, would Haruhi Suzumiya be even more popular if Kyon was a dull male lead?

What you're talking about is the character's neutral/adaptable personality, which I already addressed. The character can't have a personality that is so partisan or biased that it'd preclude the potential romantic development with all the various candidates in the show.

If I'm reading you right, you're saying that the character's personality is designed so that he's romantically compatible with all the various candidates in the show. And that this leads to a neutral/adaptable personality, which unfortunately can come across as "uninteresting" in and of itself.

Well, that's certainly an interesting theory. It's fair to say that the more distinctive a personality a male character has, the fewer believable romantic options he has by extension, since not all personality types mix well together of course.

To your credit, this is a plausible explanation you've put forward for why harem anime male leads are the way they are. Maybe it fits a bit better than the placeholder theory.

But I guess what I am objecting to is less the "boring because he doesn't stand out" male lead (which was perhaps the original topic of the thread), and more the way the thread has morphed into talking about the "indecisive"/"loser" male lead where -- per some -- the audience is supposed to identify with those traits. I don't think those particular traits are intended to be "relate-able", they're intended to serve the plot.

I agree with you here. The "indecisive" and "loser" elements aren't there to make the harem anime male lead more relateable. If they're there, they're usually there to serve the plot, agreed.

It should be noted that anime in general often likes starting their characters off from "low" or "loser-esque" positions, because then there's great growth potential there that can be useful plot-wise.

Again, the distinction I'm making is the difference between being able to place one's self in the protagonist's shoes when in a given situation (to likely make a different decision than the protagonist would make), and being able to imagine that you yourself are the protagonist the whole time. The first gives the audience a sort of agency, while the later assumes that the audience identifies with the protagonist because the protagonist has no agency (and is thus just like the audience member).

Yes, I'm with you here. I don't think that the audience is expected to imagine itself as the protagonist the whole time. But I think that part of the idea might be to excite the audience with the idea of being the protagonist during key moments.


A father cheering in the stands feels a special thrill from his son scoring the winning goal in a kids hockey game.

A viewer cheering on the male lead in a harem anime may feel a special thrill from seeing that male lead kiss the chosen girl... which could lead to scoring of a different sort.

Here is where I see some "living vicariously through" possibility. But this is mostly the extent of it.