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Old 2009-12-12, 06:51   Link #109
margafred
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Interesting discussion happening here,especially about how Aokiji didn't die or get injured after being stabbed by WB's Haki-enchanted spear.While i think that Aokiji avoided the stab by making a hole on his body which made the spear passed through his body is an appropriate reason as to why Aokiji didn't get hurt,but i also won't deny that Aokiji himself might actually countered the attack using his ice power,which was not shown clearly on ch567.

I based my conclusion on "Aokiji countered the Haki'ed attack himself using his body" from how Akainu stopped the same Haki'ed attack from WB with just his leg which was enchanted with his DF power.If Haki is truly superior than Logia's formless body,then surely Akainu's leg will be shattered completely when he stopped WB's spear attack,and at the same time,get injured by it.But still he is in good shape and fine condition,not on his face shown any sign of him being injured or pain.

The idea that Haki has always been superior against Logia's formless body started when Rayleigh kicked Kizaru's leg and even leave a scar on his face using his sword,which made everyone think that Haki is unstoppable and Logia user will always get hit and injured if any form of Haki'ed attack touch their formless body.Up until now there is no sign anywhere showing that Logia user is able to avoid injury when making a contact with a Haki based attack.So it could be said that ch567 actually shows for the first time how Logia user countered a Haki'ed attack without getting injured.

From how Akainu stopped WB's Haki'ed attack and how Aokiji managed to survive WB's Haki'ed spear stab,i concluded that just like how Zoan has three type of transformation phase,Logia too has a 3 types of transformation phase.

Quote:
First phase - Normal body
A normal body without being enchanted with the Logia properties.Basically any normal attack can hit the Logia user and injure them without the need of any special power.Even a slash from a sharp weapon can leave a scar or wound on the Logia user.First phase was shown for the first time on Alabasta arc when Smoker was hit from back by Luffy when Smoker was trying to capture Ace inside a restaurant.

Second phase - Formless body (Normal body which is enchanted with the properties of the Logia power itself)
The most common form used by any prepared Logia user.This form allowed them to be completely immune to any physical attacks while maintaining their body form.While they cannot be damage by any physical attack,they however still retain their physical body form,or to make things easier to say,this form is 50% logia + 50% normal body.As such only non physical attack such as magic or Haki based attack can bypass the 2nd form.Special cases is that,if the weaknesses of the Logia element itself is used against them,like Luffy using water enchanted physical attack on Crocodile,or Luffy's rubber property on Eneru's lightning body.

Third phase - Completely element with no actual physic form
Becoming a completely Logia,or transforming the Logia user itself into the the element of the Logia itself.While mental and conciousness are still maintained,the Logia user however loose their physical form.They don't have the property of a human anymore,they have turn into a complete elemental form.While in this form,no attack or power that can hit or damage them.However special case for this is that,if the Logia element's weakness is used against them,for example Luffy's rubber property on Eneru's final form.So far there are very few occasions where the Logia user itself turned their body into a 3rd phase form completely (as in whole body transformation).Mostly they just changed a part of their body into a 3rd phase while maintaining their other body parts in 2nd phase.For example,Crocodile turning his lower body part into a complete sand while his upper body part in 2nd phase form,or Akainu turned his arm into a magma while maintaining his body in 2nd phase form.
And about Haki..

Quote:
Haki from my understanding should work like this : Haki itself affect a person,as in their mind,body and soul.Its a power that hit and affect a person's body,even if the body itself is in different form.As long as there is a human form/substance on the formless body itself,then Haki should be able to affect it.Even if the Logia user is 99% element + 1% human,Haki would still be able to injure the Logia user by affecting the 1% side.However if the user turned itself into a complete 100% element,then Haki will not be able to damage the user.
With the above explanations as a base,it makes things easier on how Haki can actually be countered using the 3rd phase of Logia.If Aokiji managed to turn a part of his body into a complete ice and Akainu turned his feet into a complete magma,then it explained clearly how they both actually managed to avoid injury from WB's haki'ed attack.It is possible to avoid injury from Haki based attack by turning a part of a body into a 100% element,in which the case of Aokiji,he turned his waist (around the ribs side) into a 100% ice which breaks like a normal ice without affecting Aokiji's other body parts.Same case with Akainu where he turned his feet into 100% magma,in which Haki has no effect on it.And taking the first case of Haki vs Logia which was Rayleigh vs Kizaru,if Kizaru actually turned his body into 100% light,which basically make himself into a human laser that melts anything that it touch,Rayleigh might actually be the one to get injured by it.

Mostly turning a part of a body into 100% logia/elemental is a mean to attack other people,usually in a form of projectile or forming the said part into a some kind of weapon.But at the same time it can also be use as a counter to avoid getting injured by Haki based attack.Admiral level officer should know about the existence of Haki,and in marines,they should have bunch of people with the ability to use Haki,which Logia user officers can use to train themselves.So it shouldn't be strange for any of the Admirals to fight a Haki users without getting injured,because the Admiral already knew how to counter it.

However just like Logia,i think that Haki too may have a different type of levels,which have different kind of effects when used on Logia user.Never been stated anywhere on the manga about WB's level of Haki,however it has been hinted that Haoshoku Haki might be the highest level of Haki among all types of Haki.Not quite sure if WB's Haki is of the same type,but i'm guessing that it isn't.Not quite sure too if Hancock owned the same Haki though she did mention about herself owning Haoushoku Haki..but i guess it was just a boast that they spread among the Kuja warriors to get their attention.WB might have a powerful Haki,but i think its just about the amount of Haki he has,while Haoushoku Haki is a superior,highest quality type of Haki,and just having a small amount of it is equal to like having a Haki amount like WB.



p/s : Just read some posts from AP forums about ch567...they might actually be true about the aura surrounding WB's weapon tip was actually a form of his earthquake power,even Akainu commented about that attack (WB's attack with his weapon) being able to crush the whole marine island,which is something that i believe even a Haki of WB's caliber couldn't do,except his quake power.Quite contradicting from what i posted above...however i guess i just stick myself to the point i made above for now,until Oda himself release a 1001 Haki for dummies guide book lol.

Last edited by margafred; 2009-12-12 at 08:24.
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