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Old 2012-09-19, 09:08   Link #30678
Renall
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Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalAura View Post
We don't point at those scenes and claim that Meta or Piece Jessica is a horrible, irredeemable monster because she'd boil Kyrie in lava for the sake of her crush in that situation. It's understood that the "motive" was a caricature for the reader's benefit and that we shouldn't approach Piece Jessica as having the same level of realism as a real-world murderer. Although the murder in question took place in a fantasy scene, Battler went to the trouble of putting that element in a game about Beatrice's origins, and even included a fantasy-meta level to talk about it in, so I think it would do a lot of good to consider why he did that.
Jessica also expressed heavy reservations about ever doing such a thing multiple times in Dawn, and had to basically become possessed to even do it. That confuses the matter somewhat because Jessica and George sort of had different attitudes toward it. Although I doubt anyone really thought by that point that Jessica's character was one which would give her a motive of that sort, so I think most people agreed with your perception of why that scene was the way it was.

Although really that whole scene mostly just existed so Kyrie could plot dump.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tempteste View Post
If it would be this way in last two years Yasu wouldn't have felt like an inhuman garbage who deserves no future, whose only way to be free of such body is to die, which wouldn't led her to depression and constant fights within herself, joining the ones she already had, completing a list of her conflicting desires, which are one of the main reasons why the truth of umineko is left without confirmation. The catbox itself may have been her true intention as it fulfills all of her wishes that are impossible in the real world.
The ShKanon/furniture complex is a part of what Yasu wanted Battler to understand through her game. And it meant a lot to her.
Her hopeless and desperate mental condition + Battler brings us what we have. Erasing one of them will change the story.
You're missing his point. Her body image could just as easily be a mistake on her own part, based on misunderstandings or assumptions from things she has heard about. It's a bit like the whole "did Natsuhi do it on purpose or not?" question with respect to the baby story; even Natsuhi herself isn't totally sure, and she alternates between firm denial she did anything and guilt-riddled assumption that she must have. Natsuhi is the only person who could know, and she acted as if she wasn't really sure; consequently, whether you choose to believe she's right or wrong, you must make an assumption that you can't confirm.

The same is true for anything Yasu hears from Genji and Nanjo or from Kinzo or from anybody really. She doesn't know there was a baby. She doesn't know she was that baby. She doesn't know the baby was injured in some way and that her body image is the result of an actual injury. Feeling abnormal or uncomfortable with one's own body is not that uncommon in perfectly healthy people. Yasu had these feelings and made assumptions based on information.

The point is, she chose to believe this was true and behaved accordingly. Jan-Poo's point (I think) is that it doesn't make any difference whether she's right or wrong about it.

For example, let's say the baby really did exist, really did suffer a fall and an injury, really was operated on by Nanjo, and really was placed in the orphanage by Genji. And at some point Genji accidentally made a mistake and lost track of the baby, thinking entirely by error that some other baby was the one. That baby came to be raised as Yasu-Alternate, let's say, on the mistaken assumption it was Kinzo's secret child.

Yasu-Alternate grows up in the same situations and perhaps has the same feelings. Yasu-Alternate is also uncomfortable with him/herself for reasons he/she isn't sure of. Yasu-Alternate also has a relationship with Battler which is interrupted by Battler's departure. And Yasu-Alternate eventually finds out from Genji/Nanjo what happened to the baby. He/she believes them, because they're telling the truth about the incident, but all three just happen to be mistaken and think Yasu-Alternate was that baby.

Would Yasu-Alternate behave the same way as Yasu? I don't see why not. He/she believes the circumstances to be as presented, even though everyone involved in the situation is mistaken. By the same token, Yasu can't know she's the secret baby or that there even was a secret baby. She has to trust Genji, and apparently she is inclined to do so. In doing so, she believes it and acts as if it is true.

Because she acts as if it is true, it doesn't matter if it is or isn't actually true, because Yasu has no apparent way of knowing other than the ways she's got in front of her. So whether the situation is Baby Exists -> Yasu is Baby -> Body Image Caused by Injury or Baby Doesn't Exist -> Yasu isn't Baby -> Body Image Caused by Something Else, Yasu will behave identically by drawing a conclusion that fits the information she has.

Thus in Jan-Poo's theoretical account of a perfectly normal female Yasu who just mistakenly believes she's a mutilated male, silly as such a thing might obviously sound, her reaction ought to be no different. In other words, unless the scenario changes so drastically as to be entirely unrecognizable, the events of 1986 would play out basically the same whether or not the stories were true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
No, the motive is to create a chance of Battler remembering her. In other words, these murders are no more than a means to an end. The victims are less than human. They're consumable tools. They're pieces.

This is not a satisfying motive for murder. It's a fantasy motive.

Yasu simply has no "mystery" motive. That's why I think Yasu is innocent in Prime.
However, this motive makes perfect sense in the case of, say, a murder mystery game. Battler would probably realize at some point that the motive makes no sense and, from that, hopefully guess that nobody is really dead. Because there's no motive to actually harm them.

Still a potentially dickish thing to do to Battler, but at least it would be done with the willing participation of everyone for an essentially innocent purpose. That would be a sufficient "mystery" motive, although obviously it would also assert her innocence.
__________________
Redaction of the Golden Witch
I submit that a murder was committed in 1996.
This murder was a "copycat" crime inspired by our tales of 1986.
This story is a redacted confession.

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