[Arabesque]

I tend to try and not talk about the Middle East much, here or in real life, outside of historical events, figures or other interesting and sometimes awesome things the area had brought out to the world. That is in part due to how politically charged such discussions tend to end up being and how often they shift into the situation over in the Holy Land (which I think is inevitable, considering how central that conflict is when viewing the middle east from not only an outsiders, but even form a personal perspective).

Before I get more into the Israeli-Palestinian situation, I want to touch on where do I think (and in some areas, hope) the Middle East is heading to.

I am in line with what James said in the first page about how I hope that the region will experience a period of Enlightenment where the focus shifts away from the extremist and fanatical views and back into more educated and reasoned thinking, and where there is more openness to the possibility of peace. I'm not sure how that will happen (if it happens) but I want to think that with the rise in the ease and speed of communication and the spread of great knowledge would be a strong incentive to start this period.

I do think that there will be a stronger desire for a more democratic style governments, but all that would mean is that some of the more ugly truths will be masked under a prettier veil and be hidden from the world to judge under a different pretense.

I don't think that the fanatical views will ever truly go away. I wish they would, but if the events of 1979 had shown anything (or really, any organized group with a will for harming others), it is that it sadly there to stay. I hope it will at least be marginalized so it is no longer a major threat, but even then that might be too much to hope.

I think that Turkey will join the EU. I think that it is something that is somewhat obvious that it will happen in the future, though the question is for how long will it be delayed for.

I don't think there will ever be peace between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Maybe many centuries down the line, the general attitude might shift from hate/hostilities to unfriendly, provided there is a war to completely change the face of the region, but as far as I can see, these are people who live in the center of numerous vicious cycles of revenge and grievances that go back for untold years and they still feed into each others hate to this day.

I don't think that the two state solution will work out in favor of the Palestinians. Even if they were to get the land they want, they had shot themselves in the foot by engaging in constant hostilities with Israel (and making it the central focus of their plans) and by encouraging a lot of their population to martyr themselves. No matter how I see it, there isn't going to be a happy ending for them down that line.

At the end, I think that peace will still elude the Middle East, technology will give rise for more people to become more educated, and for the same conflicts to still be going on uninterrupted (barring a major war).

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Israel is both the home of Palestinian and Jewish people. To say one group had more claim to the country is wrong. The Palestinians were not there first, just at the time of when Israel became a state the Palestinians had a majority.

Indeed. I think that Amon Oz had summed it up to how truly sad this fact is

... in this respect, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been a tragedy, a clash between one very powerful, very convincing, very painful claim over this land and another no less powerful, no less convincing claim.

Which is the main reason why I shy away from participating in any sort of discussion about this particular conflict. I find myself agreeing with a lot of point that both sides have, disagreeing with the methods they chose, understanding why favor they must use them (in Israeli's case, realizing it is necessary), and be at loss at all the tragic deaths and destruction that occurs on regular bases.

It's really hard to condemn anyone group here. The Israelis are fighting to defend their country, where they and their loved ones live, from what they see as a direct attack against their very existence. It is unacceptable to have a country be under attack for months on end and for it to not take action to defend itself and its citizens. I don't believe that every Israelis is happy about how they go about it, but this is a Damned if you Do, Damned if you Don't situation.

On the flip side, I can understand and sympathize with the Palestinians and how bitter they are about how things ended up turning out for them. There is no doubt that they received the raw end of the deal, and it is not really that surprising to see them have feeling of not only resentment, but also of being cheated out of what they felt was theirs. They were living there for a long time, had made the land theirs and lived and died on it's soil, and then suddenly it was taken away and given to someone else. I think that anyone in their shoes would feel similar feelings of unfairness and injustice.

That of course doesn't justify targeting civilian areas for rocket attacks (or any area of that country for that matter), for the reason that the average citizen really doesn't have much say in how the policy of the country might be taken. And more importantly it doesn't help the Palestinians in the long run either, since it practically does nothing and just builds up more reason for Israel to strike back and the general populace to be more in favor of such methods. The only benefit they reap out of it is that they appear like the victims, but how good is that if you can't even stand on your two feet at the end of the day?

Now about the ''who was there first is the rightful owner'' line of thinking, I usually just try and tone out whenever that pops up since it always struck me as being one of the few silly things about this tragic conflict. It might be one of the more popular reasons for certain groups to try and claim superiority over other groups, but it is ultimately futile, since as Kim had pointed out, a case can be made for either the Palestinians or the Jews (or any of the powers that had control over the land since it's long history) and even if there was some way of settling the matter, it is not like it is going to change (or end) the conflict in anyway. The Israelis are not going to simply pack up and leave if an archaeologist finds a rock that says the Jews weren't there first but someone else, and vice versa for the Palestinians. There had been far too much blood and pain on both sides that I doubt that the question of who came first comes up in the minds of people that often nowadays.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I think we can also blame the British for how things went down in the end. They made a lot of conflicting statements and promises to both groups and ultimately messed things up. Things only escalated during and after WWII.

Bloody Brits, why did they always ruin everything?

In a way, the backpedaling might have been for the best for Israel (... and maybe for the land? Depends on how much you think the Palestinians (or who ever was going to get the land) was going to do with it and make it turn out). Had the British tried and negotiated with the Arabs to have a Jewish state there, the Arabs might have stalled things out forever, or at least try to come close.

In a way, it ended up being something of a calculated risk. The British would only make the Arabs angry for the short term at them for breaking their promises, but in the long term they knew that they wouldn't have cut all their ties with them (as it would be bad for business) and that things could be patched up togther ... sort of.

Originally Posted by thevil1

To put it simply
Israel doesn't hate Muslims, (forgive me for generalizing) but Muslims (and their respective countries and lands) hate Israel.

It's not all Muslims, though everything is so intertwined it might seem like it most of the time (and sadly,a lot of the time it probably is). Though there are Muslims who are not anti-Israel, the main issue here is a combination of old history between the different cultures, lots of bloodshed and a ton of well aimed and long lasting propaganda that leads to that sort of mentality of countries neighboring Israel. Its hard to not get a negative picture of Israel when every media in those countries for the past 6 decades say nothing but ''The Jews did it!'' or ''Israel is Evil!'' about the country and its people. Nor do I find it surprising when some Jews don't feel like being courteous or respectful to Muslims or Arabs.

Again, that's not always the case, of course.

Originally Posted by thevil1

You don't have Israel swearing to wipe out Gaza, but you have Hamas (as one example (in Gaza)) swearing to wipe out Israel, no matter what the cost, and them (Hamas) being both strategically and militarily out numbered; besides for daily missile attacks which have become the norm for southern Israeli communities and thus aren't reported on by foreign media, the only other way to attack Israel is by getting media to view their cause, how do they do that? By making sure as many of their own die when Israel decides to say "enough is enough".

I'm not trying to sound racist about any of this , but having been targeted and almost in the area of an attack, I feel strongly about this.

For what's its worth, I don't think that sounds racist, and I do think what you are saying is understandable and that anyone living in similar conditions would say the same.

Originally Posted by thevil1

In Egypt, I fear there might be a need for another Arab Spring, I haven't yet read up on the full details on this, but from what I hear, Morsi is going power crazy.

Yikes. I think we should just let things play out peacefully and only get another revolution when the time needs be, and hopefully one that is less violent and more constructive.

At the moment, I think that what President Morsi is trying to do is that he is measuring just how much power does he truly have, and where exactly is Egypt now on the playing field. I doubt he is going to go full on megalomaniac at the moment and decided to burn all the opposition.