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Old 2012-09-08, 20:23   Link #112
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 32
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
This isn't about justification. This is about a vicious cycle.
What vicious cycle?

Despite all the atrocities the Vagans committed nobody in the Federation we've seen so far wants to go as far as they did.

Even when Flit was in command he was focused on building a shield to protect.

And now that Second Moon is in the vicinty even the Federation officers aren't exactly on board with Flit's "destroy them all" mood. Even with the Plasma Driver missile the top brass wasn't keen on using it either.

This isn't Gundam SEED where the Alliance builds nukes and ZAFT retaliates with GENESIS cannons and vice versa.

Hell the Federation in G2 was willing to sit down and have peace talks and you say the whole thing is a vicicous cycle? Person A keeps attacking Person B who tries to defend himself but at the same time refuses to drop to Person's A level and keeps trying to offer peace.

They spent god knows how many years in an environment that's downright lethal. The federation is directly responsible for this. Again, my argument isn't about them being right, it is about them being in pain.
Right which is why everytime somebody brings up the atrocities committed by the Vagans you try to balance it with what only the HIGHER-Brass officers in the Federation did in the backroom.

Flit made them pay the price for collaborating with the Vegans. There is a huge difference.
Not really. This whole thing started because they abandoned the Vagans to begin with. Had that not happened in the first place they wouldn't be in the crap hole they're in now.

The Ezelcant thing is an entirely different matter that has nothing to do with my current argument.
Oh so so long as a soldier says, "I was just following orders" then he's completely innocent of his actions? My apologies I was not aware you were that kind of person.

The Federation did nothing by accident. They condemned an entire population to death for no reason other than to protect their own sorry asses. Which is what the war is originally about.
Nobody said anything about an accident. The upper brass did. Even the general populace was ignorant of the whole thing so I don't see how they are justified in destroying colonies that aren't even controlled by the Federation to begin with. (Colony Angel being one).

And no, this whole war is about Ezcelant and his destiny plan (he's the leader running the show). That's why the Federation cannot make peace with the Vagans because it's not your typical conventional war. This is one madman's experiment.

While he's going about it the wrong way, Kio is trying to reach out to his fellow human beings.
If your sales pitch doesn't work the first time then perhaps you should try another method.

To me it doesn't seem to be about one sick girl. This is about something more fundamental. While growing up he has been told that the Vagans are demons that don't deserve to live. His brief visit to Second Moon has shown that these people are human beings just like him, and moreover, these human beings have been suffering for a long time. He is aware that they have made the earthers suffer as well, and that's the point of my argument. Both sides have made the other suffer, and it doesn't have to be this way.
Let me make this very clear to you since you keep stretching these things. He met ONE girl, ONE sick girl who had very little if any connection to what was happening in the first place. And again, how does this lead Kio to the conclusion that this war is a misunderstanding? The Federation was WILLING to make compromises or a peace treaty with the Vagans. Hell Asemu was the only one who saw the crap the war was and TRIED to reveal the truth to Zeheart in the hopes that it would stop the fighting. Although he failed Asemu made a lot more progress than Kio.

I don't see any reason for Vagans to be unhappy with the war tbh. I'd wager that all of them really, REALLY want to stop dying.
Wow you really are stretching things.

Any war that goes for more than a year the populace is more than ready to revolt against you in this day and age.

It is hard to believe that the populace would follow a man for nearly 100 years with no results being produced (seriously, even Zeheart noticed that the operations were always giving the Feds a chance to survive which would prolong the war. Surely he can't be the only one to notice that). Hot heads like Zanald IMO are the kind that would lead a coup, take over, and work towards finishing the war faster.

My beef with Kio is that he preaches nonsence about understanding and to stop fighting when in fact it's NOT about misunderstanding. And in regards to his understanding how can he claim to understand the sorrows of the Vagans through one little girl he barely knew and not the pain and suffering his own grandfather (whom he spent his whole life with)? It's just plain stupidity that makes no sense.

Last edited by SoldierOfDarkness; 2012-09-08 at 20:35.
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