(CR) Hibike! Euphonium Season 3

[Infinite Zenith]

Final thoughts on the series: the ending was appropriate and a suitable payoff for the journey.

[shiki343]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I'm not sure if you can consider that sizable at all. It's the first 2 minutes of the movie, forgotten about for about 1/2, and then they break up after a 2 minute scene. I mean sure the movie had to cram a lot of things in, but the movie itself isn't the bulk of the show as a whole either. So it's not insignificant, but I don't think you can really claim it's a high priority.

There is also the rampant denial of Shu's existence for a good amount of season 3 for whatever reason; again no desire to push that plotline beyond source obligations it feels.


Exactly. It's logical to conclude it's in there because it was in the original material, and they really didn't care for it. Though it does serve to add some extra drama for Reina and motivation-- it is purely a one sided crush so naturally it wasn't going to go anywhere.

I mean at least that makes more sense than to claim the series as a whole is sloppily written.

Oh, as for the yuri-baitng. Well, this studio is somewhat infamous for doing it in a lot of their shows, so the chances of that going anywhere was gonna be marginal at best.

That's what I mean. If they were going to push Shuuichi into the background in most of the final season, then they never should have included, and put emphasis, on the romance with Kumiko in the first place. They should have just not cut it entirely and focused on other things.

I never meant to say I think the show as a whole is sloppily written. I love this series, and I think most of it is fairly well written. It's the romance angle that I think is poorly done (along with Mayu's characterization). As you said, it seemed as though Kyoani only included it just because it was in the source. I didn't even find the romance angle that well done in the source material either.

And yeah, sadly the yuri-baiting is a thing with Kyoani. I love them, but that's always been an annoying thing they partake in.

[larethian]

It's because the anime is an adaptation, and while not being faithful to the source, would sometimes still adapt or use stuff used by the source as a build-up or foreshadow to other developments or outcomes not important for what the show wants to tell. As such they become red herrings, and also sometimes why source readers will tend to feel dissatisfied or dissonance, as they notice this more acutely due to the knowledge of what those material were used for.

As to why they will include those rather than eliminating it all, it could be because:
- they feel it's a trivial point and doesn't matter too much in the coherence of their main story
- they are not decided on the final direction at that point
- it's too troublesome to mow out every one of those and write something else to fill the time
- they feel it's fine to include it and leave it to the audience's imagination and not want to explore that point in the show

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by shiki343

That's what I mean. If they were going to push Shuuichi into the background in most of the final season, then they never should have included, and put emphasis, on the romance with Kumiko in the first place. They should have just not cut it entirely and focused on other things.

I never meant to say I think the show as a whole is sloppily written. I love this series, and I think most of it is fairly well written. It's the romance angle that I think is poorly done (along with Mayu's characterization). As you said, it seemed as though Kyoani only included it just because it was in the source. I didn't even find the romance angle that well done in the source material either.

And yeah, sadly the yuri-baiting is a thing with Kyoani. I love them, but that's always been an annoying thing they partake in.

Basically I just imagine Kyoani spreading the skill points in various aspects so they max out the animation and drama sliders and then took all the points of romance to max something else; my favorite joke about the series is the points are spent on Reina's hair gloss.

Although clearly Shu got points taken away too. Still, at least he did something near the end and I did kinda like having him around instead of being Reina's punching bag.

Incidentally I joked with some on Reddit about a potential crack ship between Reina and Shu just because the interactions are suddenly skewed between them. I thought it'd be even funnier if that happened but alas, underwhelming.

[shiki343]

I still feel like the romance elements should have been cut out since ultimately, they're unimportant to the story and themes apparently. I feel like the only reason those elements were included in the anime (and the source material) was because; "this is a series set in high school and you can't not have romantic drama in a high school drama, right? And Kyoani has proven many times that they're not above changing things from the source material if they feel it's necessary. They've done it with this show even. Although, I guess if they removed Shuuichi's romantic subplot with Kumiko he'd feel even more superfluous than he already does.

I would have been fine with having Reina have this childish crush on Taki if she eventually grew out of it. Episode 9 of S3 should have been a big turning point for Reina's character. She should have realized; "Hey, I'm putting everybody down, elevating the drama, and being needlessly hurtful to my best friend for a guy I've barely interreacted with for 3+ seasons." She should have come to realize that Taki isn't this idealized infallible person she's made him out to be. Either that, or she confesses, gets shot down, and has to deal with that.

You know, some growth for her character, which as is she never gets any. She does apologize to Kumiko, but you don't get the sense she's really changed or wouldn't act the same way if that situation arose again. She's still infatuated with Taki to the very end. So, I feel they should have wrote that part of her character out, because I feel it does more to damage her character than enhance it. It doesn't amount to anything, except to make Reina more unlikable.

[scififan]

Originally Posted by shiki343

I still feel like the romance elements should have been cut out since ultimately, they're unimportant to the story and themes apparently. I feel like the only reason those elements were included in the anime (and the source material) was because; "this is a series set in high school and you can't not have romantic drama in a high school drama, right? And Kyoani has proven many times that they're not above changing things from the source material if they feel it's necessary. They've done it with this show even. Although, I guess if they removed Shuuichi's romantic subplot with Kumiko he'd feel even more superfluous than he already does.

Shuichi's relationship with Kumiko is the gossip material among their kohai. During the gossip, more people are interested about Kanade's big appetite with doria(ドリア). I am more amused about Ririka's way of talking, as she is singing. So, Shuichi's "existence" adds the flavor to the plot.

Kaho says all her senpai are kind(yasashii). She says Kanade is yasashi, Kumiko is yasashi, and Mayu is yasahi. Unknown to her, yasashi has different meaning in the story.

優しいしかないじゃない！優しいなんて他に誉めるところがない人に言う台詞でしょ！？私わかってるんだから ！

From the interview, the author mentioned she used yasashi without much thought. She didn't expect the word to leave the strong impression in anime adaption. The meeky president Haruka is known for her kindness. After she couldn't stop Aoi from leaving the club, she blamed herself for not as capable as Asuka. Asuka rejected the position for the club president, but she was willing to take the position of the vice president and the drum major. To keep the club running, Haruka volunteered to become the president. While Haruka felt down, Kumiko tried to cheer her up. Haruka asked Kumiko what she liked about Haruka. Kumiko's response was kindness(yasashi). Haruka said you praise a person as yasashi when you have nothing good to say about that person. The quote became quite epic.

Voice actresses interview about Kumiko and Reika's friendship.

Spoiler for interview:

――After about 10 years, the anime "Hibiki! Euphonum 3" has reached its final episode. Looking back at Kumiko and Reina in "3", what are your impressions?

Kurosawa: In the past, Kumiko was often said to be a photographer and interviewer. But in "3", because Kumiko's role has increased, she feels more relevant. During the performance, I noticed that Kumiko would show different aspects when facing club members, Reina, and Shuichi, so I consciously differentiated these performances. This time the dubbing was done in full color, so I could watch Kumiko’s expression while dubbing. But if you are led by the picture and over-invested in emotion, it will appear exaggerated, so it is difficult to control.

Anji: Reina is always the same, she is still Kosaka Reina in "3". Although her communication with Kumiko and her own struggles were described, I thought I might see the side of Rina as an ordinary high school girl, but she is still very rigorous. Rina has been determined to dedicate her youth to Taki-sensei and music since the first year, and this time can be said to be her culmination. During the dubbing, Haruki Ishitani, who plays Shuichi, said, "Rina has had the idea of ​​​​strengthening the school since she was in the first grade." This is indeed true. When Kitauji High School was not a strong school, she was the only one who insisted on complete meritocracy like a strong school, so she caused waves around her. This kind of Reina served as the drum major in the third year and implemented the principle of full strength in the club, which led to this drama, which made people feel a lot.

――The Kitauji High School Wind Club overcame various difficulties and achieved its goal of winning the gold medal in the national competition. What were your thoughts when you read the script?

Anji: She has always hoped to win the gold medal in the end, so this development is very dramatic. And Reina's symbolic line changed from "I'm so regretful" to "I'm so happy", which is really great. I had a premonition that this would happen, so I always wanted to say this line. I almost cried during the performance, thinking, "Thank you for letting me say this line."

Kurosawa: Seeing the development of episode 11, I vaguely felt that either Mayu won the gold medal playing soli, or Kumiko missed the gold medal playing soli. When Mayu confirmed her soli performance in episode 12, I thought, "Sure enough." It would be bad if I still don't get the gold medal, so I'm very happy to win successfully.

Anji: Even if she doesn't win the gold medal, Reina will not give up music, but she may be unable to come to school due to the shock.

Kurosawa: After the dubbing, I heard that the animation script prepared two versions of Kumiko and Mayu soli in the outline stage. I feel that if Kumiko fails to play the soli, it will be more convincing to the audience that she will become a teacher and assistant director in the future, so I agree with this arrangement.

Anji: Because of this development, in the 13th episode, Kumiko's expression when she looked at Mayu playing the solo was very good, and she could read various emotions such as joy and regret, which was very touching. Although Rina may have mixed feelings about wanting to play solo with Kumiko, I think this is good.

Kurosawa: In the original work, Kumiko played a soli. That was the result of the accumulation of the original work, and it was a reward for Kumiko. I think that was very good. But for the anime's depiction of Kumiko's story, it might be better not to play soli.

――How was the atmosphere at the dubbing scene for the final episode 13?

Anji: I was unexpectedly the same as usual. I cried so hard while reading the script and watching the rehearsal video at home that I thought, "This must be terrible," so I brought a box of tissues that day. I wanted to cry with everyone, but I was a little disappointed because it was so ordinary (laughs).

Kurosawa: Because the order of recording scenes was reversed, it also had a normal feel. But after the final dubbing, Ishitani sent a message saying "Thank you for always!"

Anji: What! Damn it, I should send something too! (laughing)

Kurosawa: It was so funny, so I replied "Wow, that's so funny! Thank you!" (laughing).

Anji: I shouldn’t say “it’s so funny” there (laughs). But Ishitani looks a lot like Shuichi, which is good.

Kurosawa: This work is Ishitani’s first time taking on a fixed role with a name, and he was very green at first. But after getting to know each other gradually, I got along well with the director and others, and seemed very happy. In retrospect, Ishigani also makes one feel the passage of time.

――Let’s talk about the ending of the relationship between the two. First, how does Reina view Kumiko?

Anji: Reina is so focused on music that she sometimes loses sight of her surroundings, so I think she relies heavily on Kumiko’s gentleness. So when Kumiko not only pampers her but also gives her own opinions, she becomes stubborn and seems a bit childish. The core of Rina is music and Taki-sensei, so although I personally like Kumiko, I still restrain myself during the performance.

Kurosawa Reina may have felt somewhere that her friendship with Kumiko and her strict pursuit of music could not be reconciled.

Anji: Yes. Reina has been exposed to music since she was a child, so she feels that she can no longer leave music. But for Reina, Kumiko is her first friend of the same age, so she wants to cherish this relationship. That's why she reluctantly invited Kumiko to take the music university entrance examination.

Kurosawa But in episode 11, Mizore said to Kumiko, "I can't imagine you playing at a music university." While that's true, it was a funny scene.

Anji: Yes, the ending is great (laughs).

Kurosawa: If Reina and Kumiko had been good friends, they might have been open a music class down the street. But Reina is too strict and there may be no students at all (laughs).

Anji: Indeed. She may reject anyone who is unmotivated.

――How does Kumiko feel about Reina?

Kurosawa: The creators may have wanted to leave Kumiko’s feelings to the audience’s own interpretation. There may be different opinions on this, so this is just my personal opinion and not the correct answer. I think Kumiko might not take the initiative to meet Reina after graduation. Of course, Reina is special to Kumiko, but I think she may think back to "Reina was a special person" in the future. It's like becoming friends with someone with musical talent, and gradually being carried away by the enthusiasm, thinking "I can do it too", but after talking with the teacher, Mizore-senpai and others, the enthusiasm cools down... I think it may be like this. .

Anji: That’s it. In episode 12, Reina looked really sad when she chose Mayu instead of Kumiko as the soloist. But although Kumiko showed emotion in the end, Reina looked more like she was about to cry at first. I feel that Kumiko has become mature, and I also feel the distance between her and Reina.

Kurosawa: Episode 11. When Kumiko and her sister were talking about Mayu, she was able to express the power of Mayu in her own words. This is not only the growth of Kumiko, but also the moment when she calms down from her enthusiasm and realizes the distance from Reina. But I don’t think she would get back together with Shuichi just because she feels lonely without Reina.

――Why do you think so?

Kurosawa: Because Reina is so special. They experienced something more intense than falling in love, so after it ends, Kumiko may not be able to fall in love for a while. It may be difficult for a special being like Reina to appear next to Kumiko again.

Anji: But in episode 13, the adult Kumiko is wearing a hairpin that seems to be a gift from Shuichi. So I think Shuichi still has a chance.

Kurosawa: But it’s hard to say whether we can develop a deeper relationship than Reina. I don’t even know if Kumiko, who is in college, can remember the faces of her classmates well (laughs).

Anji: Indeed, the people Kumiko came into contact with during high school were all very unique. For example, Asuka-senpai has really come into contact with all kinds of people.

Kurosawa: Yes. She may feel that "college students don't have much personality~".

――When did you feel the changes in Kumiko and Reina?

Kurosawa: Although there are hints here and there, Kumiko and Reina’s paths clearly fall apart in the conversation on the bridge in Episode 9.

Anji: I agree this is when Reina said to Kumiko, "In that case, you are not worthy of being a club president."

Kurosawa: This plot became an opportunity for Kumiko to organize her thoughts. Kumiko, who had a vague feeling that she might not be able to walk the same path as Reina, realized the reality at that moment. For Kumiko, Reina is a shining existence that she can never be. She kept trying to get close to Reina, but realized she couldn't. This is important to Kumiko. Sound supervisor Yota Tsuruoka said that everything that happened in "3" was some kind of process for Kumiko. In the process of thinking about what each thing was, I finally sorted out the relationship between Kumiko and Reina.

Anji: During the once-in-a-lifetime three years of high school, Kumiko and Reina experienced a very intense burning. Even if Kumiko thinks "she can't catch up with Reina," Reina understands this, but the special time they spend together will definitely become their treasure and an important part of shaping their personality. Reina will also encounter various talents when she becomes a music professional in the future. Among them, you will definitely encounter people who are much better than yourself and feel frustrated. I imagine that at that time she would think back to the days she spent with Kumiko and overcome the difficulties.

Kurosawa: This is completely delusional, but I can imagine Reina, around 28 years old, falling into depression and returning to Japan to find Kumiko. She suddenly came to school and said, "My opponent is here" and tried to motivate Kumiko (laughing).

Anji: It may not be that exaggerated, but it is possible to occasionally go back to Japan to play with Kumiko when the circumstance is not good. Of course, the level gap between the two at that time was no longer comparable, but Reina might use this to recall her initial motivation and get rid of her depression.

Kurosawa: I think Reina’s future life may be more dramatic. So I really want to read the adult Reina chapter.

Anji: Rather than being the protagonist, adult Kumiko is more suitable for the role of supporting the new protagonist in Kitauji and assisting that person.

Kurosawa: By the way, when Kumiko said "Welcome to the Kitauji High School Wind Band" at the end of the episode, I actually slightly imitated Mr. Taki's tone. Of course Kumiko will be a completely different type of mentor than Taki-sensei, but I think she might follow in Taki-sensei's footsteps.

Anji: After all, she has a close relationship with Mr. Taki, so it will the influence.

Kurosawa: Actually, that last scene was in Kumiko’s third year as vice director. So when I voice her, I didn't sound like a newbie, but I used a very confident tone. In addition, although it is not in the script, it is said that during the script stage, there was a stage direction at the end of the final chapter, "This is a story that keeps spinning." I felt that this was a story that I wanted to pass on to the next generation, so I performed it with this feeling.

[Julio C]

So apparently they drew the KyoAni staff that passed away from that arson attack as part of the audience.

[larethian]

Seriously RIP. A heartbreaking incident even till this day.

[Dextro]

Agreed. Still can't quite accept that it happened. Especially when I was there, next to the building, just months before

[arkhangelsk]

One of the sacrifices is apparently the guy who drew the ensemble playing scenes which is one explanation why they avoided them this season.

[Infinite Zenith]

Originally Posted by arkhangelsk

I've read it, Zenith. First, here's the thing - of course they got more credit than you, because 1) if you take production timelines into account, they must have come up with it before you and 2) you obviously didn't convince me they can make it work (in fact, as you kept talking, the proposal seemed to get ever more overly elaborate for TV), and they balanced the idea with practicality to put a reasonable version on the screen. That they get more of the credit is a foregone conclusion.

On the contrary, scififan did not, and does not deserve any credit. Outside of the production teams, writing staff and novel author, there is no evidence at all, whether it be in this forum, other anime forums, social media or image boards, that fans came up with the idea independently. You don't have to agree with the outcome of the series, but you do need to accept there are other people out there who are intelligent and insightful. You are also denying the fact they did use my approach quite closely, with the small exception that rather than bringing a professional third party in, they got Kumiko and Mayu's classmates to make the final call. Finally, I will remark that scififan, who spent all of their time "analysing" magazine scans for things like body language, clothing patterns and facial expressions, contributed nothing to the discussion. They were off the mark entirely.

On the other hand, everything that happened this final season happened precisely the way I forecast it would: since you've indicated you read my posts in detail, I understand that seeing someone who isn't a revered AnimeSuki member being correct can be a little difficult to accept, especially when said someone used common life lessons and conflict management techniques rather than fanciful (and invalid) art analysis. At the end of the day, you're not one to decide who gets credit or not: the outcome of Hibike! Euphonium speaks for itself, invalidating all of the previous analysis here that you asserted to have merit (including your own).

I understand that you will continue to assert that I'm unlikely to convince you of anything. That much is obvious. The reason why I'm choosing to stand up and speak up isn't to persuade you that you're wrong. Rather, my goal is to refute what you say so that other people, registered forum members or lurkers, don't fall into the trap of giving your opinions more weight than those of someone else's (i.e. mine).

[Julio C]

I bought Volume 1 of season 3 and is packed with extras and it has the first 3 episodes which I was expecting only 2.

The extra episode is about 6 min long, sadly not fully animated. At least the animation stills are on par with the show. I wish they fully animated like the previous 2 seasons extras.