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7thFonon · 2007-07-06, 21:18

As probably most already know, genjutsu is useless if the person who it is being used on has no chakra flow. I was thinking of a similar idea to how Clare fights in Claymore. What if someone who does not rely on chakra (like Rock Lee), fights a genjutsu user like Itachi?

Rurik · 2007-07-06, 21:27

I think Rock Lee relies on Chakra for his high speed attacks amongst other things. regarding your question, Because they are NInjas, when they are in a fight, they are constantly molding Chakra, if the person decides not to mold Chakra to avoid genjutsu he could put himself in a even more vulnerable situation.

I guess thats the reason why this wasn't given as an option to defeat Genjutsu, at least thats what I think.

cheese4u · 2007-07-06, 22:08

Everyone has a chakra flow, even non ninjas. So its not no chakra flow that stops genjutsu, its a disrupted chakra flow as demonstrated by Kikashi and Sakura during the Leaf Invasion.

7thFonon · 2007-07-06, 22:31

Someone can have a Clare fighting style where the person disrupts and lowers chakra on defense then quickly and unexpetedly, attack with a huge burst of chakra then disrupt the chakra cycle asap. That would be hard to deal with as the genjutsu user will waste chakra using genjutsu at the wrong time.

Rurik · 2007-07-06, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7thFonon

Someone can have a Clare fighting style where the person disrupts and lowers chakra on defense then quickly and unexpetedly, attack with a huge burst of chakra then disrupt the chakra cycle asap. That would be hard to deal with as the genjutsu user will waste chakra using genjutsu at the wrong time.

Elaborate for those who have not started reading Claymore...

But what I could understand of your example...that sounds interesting..but the degree of chakra control should be at the level of someone like SAkura or Neeji.

Sabaku Kyu · 2007-07-06, 23:07

I don't think the Claymore references really apply here. It always confuses things when you compare two different universes. The Claymores are something akin to the jinchuuriki of the Naruto world. Clare's fighting style is all about controlling her youma blood to use it's max capabilites while not having the blood completely take over.

Basically, genjutsu can effect anything that's sentinent. We've seen it used on non-ninja (the woman used to distract Jiraiya and ) and animals (the tigers that attack Anko in the Forest of Death). But only ninjas are trained to control and disrupt their chakra flow so they can resist it.

Ero-Senn1n · 2007-07-07, 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I don't think the Claymore references really apply here. It always confuses things when you compare two different universes. The Claymores are something akin to the jinchuuriki of the Naruto world. Clare's fighting style is all about controlling her youma blood to use it's max capabilites while not having the blood completely take over.

It's just like Naruto's case. Jiraiya was training him in the timeskip to take the maximum advantage of the demon power. And the risk is the same as for the claymores. Even the visual aspect is very similar: while being in control only the eyes change.

nine_tailed_kyuubi · 2007-07-07, 07:39

then why when Naruto stopped the chakra flow against Itachi the genjutsu didn't end ?!!! Also why Naruto during the time skip assumed that he can cut the flow of chakra and he would be still trapped in the genjutsu, also Jiraya told him if that happens give up !! WTF the legendary sannin don't know how to break a genjutsu ?!!

Mr. Johnny 5 · 2007-07-07, 08:36

That's true....but probably Naruto messed up because the genjutsu should've ended. Actually with the Kyuubi inside Naruto....and controlling the Kyuubi's chakra (call upon it at will) will make Naruto powerfull against Genjutsu users.

Unless Naruto sort of messed up or Itachi gave Naruto double or tripple genjutsu's at the same time...i have no idea why it didnt work. But then again...Itachi is not an amateur when it comes to genjutsu..

nine_tailed_kyuubi · 2007-07-07, 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

That's true....but probably Naruto messed up because the genjutsu should've ended. Actually with the Kyuubi inside Naruto....and controlling the Kyuubi's chakra (call upon it at will) will make Naruto powerfull against Genjutsu users.

Unless Naruto sort of messed up or Itachi gave Naruto double or tripple genjutsu's at the same time...i have no idea why it didnt work. But then again...Itachi is not an amateur when it comes to genjutsu..

you mean by calling the kyuubi's chakra it's like someone from outside injecting his chakra into naruto's system like sakura and chyio did ?? i think so too, also the only possibility is that Itachi gave him a double genjutsu because he did the seal twice, when the genjutsu was about to end and the birds were to disappear Itachi formed another seal converting the birds to shuriken but this really sucks cause Naruto should have been able to break from it, the episode was called Naruto's growth and we saw what Jiraya taught him before and yet he lost totally !!! Kishi is making Naruto look like an ass

Ero-Senn1n · 2007-07-07, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

That's true....but probably Naruto messed up because the genjutsu should've ended. Actually with the Kyuubi inside Naruto....and controlling the Kyuubi's chakra (call upon it at will) will make Naruto powerfull against Genjutsu users.

Unless Naruto sort of messed up or Itachi gave Naruto double or tripple genjutsu's at the same time...i have no idea why it didnt work. But then again...Itachi is not an amateur when it comes to genjutsu..

It's simply the case of who is overpowering who, defense against offense. Naruto's genjutsu dispelling level was simply not enough against Itachi, but it's not a shame for him to lose against the strongest genjutsu user.

Mr. Johnny 5 · 2007-07-07, 19:01

Yes but....actually calling upon the Kyuubi chakra actually completly disrupts your normal flow of chakra. It's just that Naruto is used to it....so i am not sure he is aware of his chakra flow when using the Kyuubi chakra.

Normally calling upon the Kyuubi chakra should've been enough but like I and you guy's mentioned. Itachi is a genjutsu master. Especially because of the Sharingan.

haomaru · 2007-07-12, 08:12

Quote:

then why when Naruto stopped the chakra flow against Itachi the genjutsu didn't end ?!!! Also why Naruto during the time skip assumed that he can cut the flow of chakra and he would be still trapped in the genjutsu, also Jiraya told him if that happens give up !! WTF the legendary sannin don't know how to break a genjutsu ?!!

As i recall it naruto did dispel the first genjutso the one frome itachi's ring (the whole your good but not enough part) but then he just used sharingan to land a second one that got naruto

othafa · 2007-07-12, 08:16

Naruto was never able to completely stop Itachi's genjutsu. He was able to disrupt/slow his chakra flow enough that the crows were removed from the genjutsu for a few moments, but you'll notice that Naruto was still not able to see his comrades, and that Itachi was still floating in the air above him. The point is that you can try to stop your chakra flow, but the genjutsu user can also try to keep your chakra flowing. Ero-sennin had the right of it; Itachi was just too good at genjutsu and controlling his oponent's chakra for Naruto's attempts to come to any kind of fruition.

Kotengu · 2007-07-13, 00:52

Your question is invalid. It was explained that everyone in the narutoverse has chakra as it's attached to your circulatory system and is directly proportional to stamina. The best example of this is the fight between Neji and Hinata where Guy explains that you can't train your internal organs to withstand attack and that the Jyuuken style the Hyuuga use targets a person's CHAKRA sytem that is closley interwoven with the organs and circulatory system hence the attack damages your insides even thou they just attack your chakra.

Also no one would have tenketsu pressure points, and it wouldn't hurt when you hit them and seal off all chakra like neji did to Naruto.

The way to counter genjutsu is to disrupt the flow of chakra in your body(which I would assume causes discomfort) to snap you back to your senses.

razor886 · 2007-07-13, 04:58

Cant u just accept the fact that Naruto was just a newbie at the genjutsu dispelling thing n he was facing the best genjutsu user alive. Doesnt mean the shows called Naruto he can straight away kick everyones ass

Spoiler for Narutimate Hero (PS2 Game):

2007-07-06, 21:18	Link #1
7thFonon seventh Join Date: Dec 2006	No Chakra flow = No Genjutsu As probably most already know, genjutsu is useless if the person who it is being used on has no chakra flow. I was thinking of a similar idea to how Clare fights in Claymore. What if someone who does not rely on chakra (like Rock Lee), fights a genjutsu user like Itachi?

2007-07-06, 21:27	Link #2
Rurik Golden Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: 9th Temple Age: 45	I think Rock Lee relies on Chakra for his high speed attacks amongst other things. regarding your question, Because they are NInjas, when they are in a fight, they are constantly molding Chakra, if the person decides not to mold Chakra to avoid genjutsu he could put himself in a even more vulnerable situation. I guess thats the reason why this wasn't given as an option to defeat Genjutsu, at least thats what I think. __________________ "when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -

2007-07-06, 22:08	Link #3
cheese4u da big boss Join Date: Jul 2006	Everyone has a chakra flow, even non ninjas. So its not no chakra flow that stops genjutsu, its a disrupted chakra flow as demonstrated by Kikashi and Sakura during the Leaf Invasion. __________________ Ya know, when a man works hard his entire life enduring hundreds of ladies, many of whom he does not even remember you'd like to think that at the end of the day he will be given a lot of money, without having had to earn it. -Leon Phelps

2007-07-07, 08:36	Link #9
Mr. Johnny 5 Konoha's ANBU Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 38	That's true....but probably Naruto messed up because the genjutsu should've ended. Actually with the Kyuubi inside Naruto....and controlling the Kyuubi's chakra (call upon it at will) will make Naruto powerfull against Genjutsu users. Unless Naruto sort of messed up or Itachi gave Naruto double or tripple genjutsu's at the same time...i have no idea why it didnt work. But then again...Itachi is not an amateur when it comes to genjutsu.. __________________

2007-07-07, 19:01	Link #12
Mr. Johnny 5 Konoha's ANBU Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 38	Yes but....actually calling upon the Kyuubi chakra actually completly disrupts your normal flow of chakra. It's just that Naruto is used to it....so i am not sure he is aware of his chakra flow when using the Kyuubi chakra. Normally calling upon the Kyuubi chakra should've been enough but like I and you guy's mentioned. Itachi is a genjutsu master. Especially because of the Sharingan. __________________

2007-07-06, 22:31	Link #4
7thFonon seventh Join Date: Dec 2006	Someone can have a Clare fighting style where the person disrupts and lowers chakra on defense then quickly and unexpetedly, attack with a huge burst of chakra then disrupt the chakra cycle asap. That would be hard to deal with as the genjutsu user will waste chakra using genjutsu at the wrong time.

2007-07-06, 23:07	Link #6
Sabaku Kyu The Ironman Join Date: Sep 2006	I don't think the Claymore references really apply here. It always confuses things when you compare two different universes. The Claymores are something akin to the jinchuuriki of the Naruto world. Clare's fighting style is all about controlling her youma blood to use it's max capabilites while not having the blood completely take over. Basically, genjutsu can effect anything that's sentinent. We've seen it used on non-ninja (the woman used to distract Jiraiya and ) and animals (the tigers that attack Anko in the Forest of Death). But only ninjas are trained to control and disrupt their chakra flow so they can resist it.

2007-07-07, 07:39	Link #8
nine_tailed_kyuubi Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006	then why when Naruto stopped the chakra flow against Itachi the genjutsu didn't end ?!!! Also why Naruto during the time skip assumed that he can cut the flow of chakra and he would be still trapped in the genjutsu, also Jiraya told him if that happens give up !! WTF the legendary sannin don't know how to break a genjutsu ?!!

2007-07-12, 08:16	Link #14
othafa Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007	Naruto was never able to completely stop Itachi's genjutsu. He was able to disrupt/slow his chakra flow enough that the crows were removed from the genjutsu for a few moments, but you'll notice that Naruto was still not able to see his comrades, and that Itachi was still floating in the air above him. The point is that you can try to stop your chakra flow, but the genjutsu user can also try to keep your chakra flowing. Ero-sennin had the right of it; Itachi was just too good at genjutsu and controlling his oponent's chakra for Naruto's attempts to come to any kind of fruition.

2007-07-13, 00:52	Link #15
Kotengu KING RANSOM Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Location Location!	Your question is invalid. It was explained that everyone in the narutoverse has chakra as it's attached to your circulatory system and is directly proportional to stamina. The best example of this is the fight between Neji and Hinata where Guy explains that you can't train your internal organs to withstand attack and that the Jyuuken style the Hyuuga use targets a person's CHAKRA sytem that is closley interwoven with the organs and circulatory system hence the attack damages your insides even thou they just attack your chakra. Also no one would have tenketsu pressure points, and it wouldn't hurt when you hit them and seal off all chakra like neji did to Naruto. The way to counter genjutsu is to disrupt the flow of chakra in your body(which I would assume causes discomfort) to snap you back to your senses. __________________ "Only Chakras can grab onto Chakras. That's common sense!" Killer Bee

2007-07-13, 04:58	Link #16
razor886 Blood Angel Join Date: Jul 2007	Cant u just accept the fact that Naruto was just a newbie at the genjutsu dispelling thing n he was facing the best genjutsu user alive. Doesnt mean the shows called Naruto he can straight away kick everyones ass Spoiler for Narutimate Hero (PS2 Game): In the game the crow-shuriken genjutsu was Itachi's strongest move so that has 2 be a very high level of genjutsu so dun expect Naruto who is very bad at this stuff 2 dispel it sooooooooooo easily Last edited by razor886; 2007-07-13 at 05:30.