Heavy Object - Episode 11 (Iguazu Mountains 2) Discussion / Poll

[Pellissier]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Heavy Object, Episode 11 (Iguazu Mountains 2).

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[OH&S]

Heavy Object Episode 11 Preview Pics

[Stark700]

Object configuration for the Bright Hopper:

[FlareKnight]

Damn....you had a feeling Frolaytia's situation was unpleasant....but this is a nightmare in comparison to what I expected. Her only option basically is to live and die out on the battlefield to avoid a depressing as hell situation.

Risking her life or at least staying in the military until she's an old woman is her only real hope right now. That's just depressing as heck. Someone who basically just is seen by her 'peers' as a babymaker who can give them heirs almost guaranteed. It hasn't helped either that she's an extremely attractive person, just adding to the literal list of people gunning for her.

Some good drama though with the bombing basically taking out the third place candidate (though I wouldn't be surprised to see him still alive) and nearly taking out the Princess. If she had been the first target....damn.

[Heir of the Void]

Quite possibly the best epsiode thus far; it really had everything. And Break Carrier's main weapon has a sort of beautifully terrifying simplicity to it; the sscale is really the only thing that would make it difficult to construct in Real Life. Essentially, its a Intermediate-Range Ballistic Missile using a depressed-trajectory shot, but replacing the rocket booster with a massive rail gun. The Trident II re-entry vehicles have a terminal velocity of around Mach 22; they're simply more useful delivering nuclear warheads than as kinetic impactors.

Really, the only problem is that the aerodynamic trajectory adjustment is probably unnecessary; it if contains a rocket motor powerful enough to provide the final stage of its acceleration, it could use just that and attack at a slightly more acute angle

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Some good drama though with the bombing basically taking out the third place candidate (though I wouldn't be surprised to see him still alive) and nearly taking out the Princess. If she had been the first target....damn.

It makes sense to target Bright Hopper first, though; even at 8.5 kps, Break Carrier's shells would take sligtly more than a minute to travel 550 kilometers. If Bright Hopper knew of the threat and was taking evasive action, it's speed (...850 kph) was such that it could potentially stay out of the terminal attack footprint of each of the shots. It made sense to eliminate it with the advantage of surprise.

The one thing the MDC should have done was, after disabling the Bright Hopper, make an international anounemnt of their new weapon and declare than a legitimate Legitimate Kingdom military target would be their next target, but due to targeting imprecision, they would need to use submission rounds and, oh, city in the blast radius? That's a shame. Are you sure you want to go another round?

[Irenesharda]

I'm sorry, Froylaytia's story irritates the crap out of me.

So, she's from a family that will bear male offspring 100% of the time? Well, her being a blood related Capistrano means that that number is already false. it cannot be 100% of the time if she exists.

Also, she does realize that the female has practically no influence as to whether the offspring is male or female or not? That is completely up to the male's sperm. He would be the one with the Y chromosome needed, all she provides are Xs. How can she have guaranteed male offspring all the time, especially considering she herself is an aberration? They could suggest that she has some sort of natural spermicide that targets only X chromosomes, but then I would think that would mess up her own reproductive system. And I'm sorry but if the guy was practically sterile like in one example she was giving, it wouldn't matter for her no matter what her genetics are, she's still not getting pregnant. Male or female.

And if she's really is that annoyed about what every man wants for her, she's already going against tradition by being in the military and she says she'll just stay there until she's old, why doesn't she just go for a more simple route and have a tubectomy? Or a hysterectomy? Or something of that nature? If this is such a problem with her and she's willing to sacrifice her life to the military and cut children out of her life completely by doing so, why not just go though a much quicker and less dangerous procedure and then live her life the way she wants to?

I'm sorry, she's not gaining any sympathy from me with her story, simply because of how ridiculous it is.

As for the rest of the episode, it was pretty good, I like the whole Mach 25 missiles and all the damage they had to run away from. We'll see how they get through it next time.

[Botan_TM]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I'm sorry, Froylaytia's story irritates the crap out of me.

So, she's from a family that will bear male offspring 100% of the time? Well, her being a blood related Capistrano means that that number is already false. it cannot be 100% of the time if she exists.

Almost 100%...

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Also, she does realize that the female has practically no influence as to whether the offspring is male or female or not?

Well, still in the end it only matters what all those freaks from nobility believes.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I'm sorry, Froylaytia's story irritates the crap out of me.

So, she's from a family that will bear male offspring 100% of the time? Well, her being a blood related Capistrano means that that number is already false. it cannot be 100% of the time if she exists.

Duh? Why do you think she's special?

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

And if she's really is that annoyed about what every man wants for her, she's already going against tradition by being in the military and she says she'll just stay there until she's old, why doesn't she just go for a more simple route and have a tubectomy? Or a hysterectomy? Or something of that nature? If this is such a problem with her and she's willing to sacrifice her life to the military and cut children out of her life completely by doing so, why not just go though a much quicker and less dangerous procedure and then live her life the way she wants to?

Lol, so your suggestion is to destroy her own body needlessly rather than serve in the Military?

Here's the thing, at least in the Military it's a choice and an honor to serve in their society.

[LazyHunter]

Well, it was predictable, but the super cutting edge Bright Hopper and its asshole Elite sure were taken down quickly. Not that I'm complaining, if you're going to have a character worf, make it enjoyable. And boy was great to see the shell open that hole in the clouds and Halreed's eyes widen just to cut away to the explosion.

Froleytia does have a good reason to be in the battlefield, as she explains her current situation amongst the Legitimacy Kingdom nobility to Quenser. As many called out, Halreed was one of her marriage candidates. Speaking of Halreed, the lack of confirmation about him ejecting makes it likely he's still alive.

Heivia and Quenser go their separate ways this time, with Heivia heading to stop their fellow soldiers form the 52nd from blowing up the Iguazu Dam and Quenser trying to bring down the Break Carrier.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I'm sorry, Froylaytia's story irritates the crap out of me.

So, she's from a family that will bear male offspring 100% of the time? Well, her being a blood related Capistrano means that that number is already false. it cannot be 100% of the time if she exists.

Also, she does realize that the female has practically no influence as to whether the offspring is male or female or not? That is completely up to the male's sperm. He would be the one with the Y chromosome needed, all she provides are Xs. How can she have guaranteed male offspring all the time, especially considering she herself is an aberration? They could suggest that she has some sort of natural spermicide that targets only X chromosomes, but then I would think that would mess up her own reproductive system. And I'm sorry but if the guy was practically sterile like in one example she was giving, it wouldn't matter for her no matter what her genetics are, she's still not getting pregnant. Male or female.

And if she's really is that annoyed about what every man wants for her, she's already going against tradition by being in the military and she says she'll just stay there until she's old, why doesn't she just go for a more simple route and have a tubectomy? Or a hysterectomy? Or something of that nature? If this is such a problem with her and she's willing to sacrifice her life to the military and cut children out of her life completely by doing so, why not just go though a much quicker and less dangerous procedure and then live her life the way she wants to?.

So you didn't pay attention to her story, especially when Quenser makes the same remark as you do and she explains it to him. Capistrano family has an almost 100% chance of having male children. The fact that she's a rare female Capistrano is what makes her so valuable, as people believe she will almost certainly give them a male heir. It doesn't matter if she has her family characteristic; as long as the other nobles believe she has they will chase after her.

Also, about the sterile thing, if you had paid attention you would have heard her explaining that the initial rumor "Froleytia Capistrano has an almost 100% chance of giving birth to a son" was blown out of proportion by the fact so many nobles were trying to court her and became "She will give a male heir to even the most impotent of men" and "She's so good in bed that these powerful nobles are desperately trying to get their hands on her". The important thing is that the rumors attract the attention of nobles towards her.

Also, I doubt that a female daughter of a noble family has the freedom to have any of those operations, especially since she's being considered as a marriage candidate for several important noble families.

[EroKing]

Ah yes, let's all focus on Frolaytia's ass and her nice body while she goes on about her situation. Can this show get any more sexist than it already was? Damn, at least offer some male fanservice to balance the show

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

So you didn't pay attention to her story, especially when Quenser makes the same remark as you do and she explains it to him. Capistrano family has an almost 100% chance of having male children. The fact that she's a rare female Capistrano is what makes her so valuable, as people believe she will almost certainly give them a male heir. It doesn't matter if she has her family characteristic; as long as the other nobles believe she has they will chase after her.

Also, about the sterile thing, if you had paid attention you would have heard her explaining that the initial rumor "Froleytia Capistrano has an almost 100% chance of giving birth to a son" was blown out of proportion by the fact so many nobles were trying to court her and became "She will give a male heir to even the most impotent of men" and "She's so good in bed that these powerful nobles are desperately trying to get their hands on her". The important thing is that the rumors attract the attention of nobles towards her.

Also, I doubt that a female daughter of a noble family has the freedom to have any of those operations, especially since she's being considered as a marriage candidate for several important noble families.

Oh, I did pay attention , and no she really didn't answer his question when asked either.

And about the "almost 100%" thing, I will answer with the same thing that I will answer every other person who brings it up. If it's "practically" 100%, then it's NOT 100%. Call it 99.9% or whatever, but as a scientist (which is why this whole thing annoyed me in particular in the first place), I don't like it when they imply absolutes, when there isn't one.

As for what she's saying being "rumors" and such, I didn't get that when she was talking to Qwen, but if you say that's what she meant, then sure whatever, it doesn't make the whole stuation seem any less ridiculous.

As for her not being able to make her own choices about an operation, what is really to stop her? Her family isn't really out there, she's shown that she does go against tradition, and she is suggesting to stay in the military till she becomes an old hag with no children anyway, so she would still be defying expectations of her. If she stays there until she's too old to have children, she would not be able to bear heirs, and if she has an operation, she also won't be having heirs. So, the end result would be the same as far as her family would be concerned.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Duh? Why do you think she's special?

That doesn't answer the question. Also, considering she is an aberration, it is far more likely that her children would be a aberration as well. She would never know until she actually conceived. And I've already stated why it would be completely dumb to say that she's the one responsible for the sex of the child.

Lol, so your suggestion is to destroy her own body needlessly rather than serve in the Military?

Here's the thing, at least in the Military it's a choice and an honor to serve in their society.

Wow, you made this about something that I wasn't even minutely suggesting. I love the military, I have family, both male and female that have chosen a career serving in the army, and I wholeheartedly support them.

What I was saying was that from the way she is speaking, she suggests that she's in the military in order to avoid the pressures of her position in the nobility. This suggest to me that she's not here purely because that's what she wants to do, but to avoid her problems with her family's genetic issues and what is expected of her. On top of that she's suggesting to stay in the military for as long as possible just to avoid her predestined fate, because even if she retires, that future would still be waiting for her.

To me, that suggests that her being in the military is less because of choice and honor, and more as a place for her to hide.
If that is so, and by her own admission, she does not want children (considering she's thinking about staying in the military until she's past childbearing age), then instead of simply using the military to hide, take a step to ensure that she doesn't have to deal with the pressures of having bear someone else's heir (since those seem to be the only two options open to her: military or breeding mule) she can have an operation, and then live her life the way she wants too, whether that's in the military or not. She can have control of her life again rather than just hiding. She can retire when she wants too, she can do whatever. It would be up to her.

Also, for all the women out there who have had those operation, both out of necessity as well as choice, I wouldn't call it "destroying your body needlessly". It's the choice of the woman of what she wants to do. If Froy only has two choices of either hiding in the military all her life or becoming some man's breeding mule, then she can also make a third choice in order to make the second choice an impossibility and this cancelling out the first choice.

[LazyHunter]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Oh, I did pay attention , and no she really didn't answer his question when asked either.

And about the "almost 100%" thing, I will answer with the same thing that I will answer every other person who brings it up. If it's "practically" 100%, then it's NOT 100%. Call it 99.9% or whatever, but as a scientist (which is why this whole thing annoyed me in particular in the first place), I don't like it when they imply absolutes, when there isn't one.

As for what she's saying being "rumors" and such, I didn't get that when she was talking to Qwen, but if you say that's what she meant, then sure whatever, it doesn't make the whole stuation seem any less ridiculous.

As for her not being able to make her own choices about an operation, what is really to stop her? Her family isn't really out there, she's shown that she does go against tradition, and she is suggesting to stay in the military till she becomes an old hag with no children anyway, so she would still be defying expectations of her. If she stays there until she's too old to have children, she would not be able to bear heirs, and if she has an operation, she also won't be having heirs. So, the end result would be the same as far as her family would be concerned.

Except that, once again, her words werent "a 100% chance", they were "almost 100%" and she did clarify what she meant when Quenser asked, as the conversation basically went:

F:"My family has a special trait very appreciated by nobility: no matter who we marry the children born end up being male almost 100& of the time".
Q:"You say your family has boys almost 100% of the time, but you're clearly a woman."
F:"That's the thing that makes me so desirable, I'm a noblewoman who will give birth to boys almost 100% of the time."

Neither she nor the show implied that it was a 100% chance or an absolute, that was simply your misunderstanding as they repeatedly say "almost 100%". The rumors were embellished a lot as the competition grow so now she has both nobles wanting to get a male heir and perverts who desire her for her "quality body", I fail to see what's so ridiculous about that when rumors getting crazier with time and word-of mouth are not that uncommon.

It's likely part of tradition for most nobles to join the military, as we saw with Heivia needing to rack up achievemens in a military career to gain the right to inherit. Being from a male-dominated family the chances of the Capistrano family having that kind of tradition are probably increased. And Froleytia is 18 and has been in the army for a few years, her family might have been just waiting until she's older to force her to marry the candidate of their choice. We have no indication they are willing to let her stay in the battlefield that long. And there would be obvious repercusions from her family + the other nobles if she undertook that kind of operation while she was in the military away from home.

I don't particularly care how you find the situation since that's your personal opinion, but you're making some stuff up in your complaints.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by LazyHunter

Except that, once again, her words werent "a 100% chance", they were "almost 100%" and she did clarify what she meant when Quenser asked, as the conversation basically went:

F:"My family has a special trait very appreciated by nobility: no matter who we marry the children born end up being male almost 100& of the time".
Q:"You say your family has boys almost 100% of the time, but you're clearly a woman."
F:"That's the thing that makes me so desirable, I'm a noblewoman who will give birth to boys almost 100% of the time."

This answer does nothing to answer why she said almost 100% when she's clearly a woman born from the family. It only says why she's desirable. She could have said any other percentile, and if that doesn't bother you, that's fine. I'm just saying that it bothers me.

It's likely part of tradition for most nobles to join the military, as we saw with Heivia needing to rack up achievemens in a military career to gain the right to inherit. Being from a male-dominated family the chances of the Capistrano family having that kind of tradition are probably increased. And Froleytia is 18 and has been in the army for a few years, her family might have been just waiting until she's older to force her to marry the candidate of their choice. We have no indication they are willing to let her stay in the battlefield that long. And there would be obvious repercusions from her family + the other nobles if she undertook that kind of operation while she was in the military away from home.

I can only go with what she said in the episode, and from that it seems she can stay in the military as long as she wants, which to me would mean that the repercussions would be the same as far as her family was concerned.

I don't particularly care how you find the situation since that's your personal opinion, but you're making some stuff up in your complaints.

No, no I'm not. But it's your own opinion if you decide to think that I am.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

That doesn't answer the question. Also, considering she is an aberration, it is far more likely that her children would be a aberration as well. She would never know until she actually conceived. And I've already stated why it would be completely dumb to say that she's the one responsible for the sex of the child.

Lol now she's an aberration? You sure have a way with words.

Regardless it's not a matter of what she believes- she's not doing this because she's worried about a hypothetical boogeymen, she's here because there are people who do believe it and want to take advantage of her. What you're doing is blaming the victim.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Wow, you made this about something that I wasn't even minutely suggesting. I love the military, I have family, both male and female that have chosen a career serving in the army, and I wholeheartedly support them.

What I was saying was that from the way she is speaking, she suggests that she's in the military in order to avoid the pressures of her position in the nobility. This suggest to me that she's not here purely because that's what she wants to do, but to avoid her problems with her family's genetic issues and what is expected of her. On top of that she's suggesting to stay in the military for as long as possible just to avoid her predestined fate, because even if she retires, that future would still be waiting for her.

To me, that suggests that her being in the military is less because of choice and honor, and more as a place for her to hide.
If that is so, and by her own admission, she does not want children (considering she's thinking about staying in the military until she's past childbearing age), then instead of simply using the military to hide, take a step to ensure that she doesn't have to deal with the pressures of having bear someone else's heir (since those seem to be the only two options open to her: military or breeding mule) she can have an operation, and then live her life the way she wants too, whether that's in the military or not. She can have control of her life again rather than just hiding. She can retire when she wants too, she can do whatever. It would be up to her.

Let me ask you a simple question then- Everything you have seen up to now about Frolaytia, does it look like in any way she resent her job?

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Also, for all the women out there who have had those operation, both out of necessity as well as choice, I wouldn't call it "destroying your body needlessly". It's the choice of the woman of what she wants to do. If Froy only has two choices of either hiding in the military all her life or becoming some man's breeding mule, then she can also make a third choice in order to make the second choice an impossibility and this cancelling out the first choice.

But it IS unnecessary for Forlaytia. She's not suffering from any life threatening diseases.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

This answer does nothing to answer why she said almost 100% when she's clearly a woman born from the family. It only says why she's desirable. She could have said any other percentile, and if that doesn't bother you, that's fine. I'm just saying that it bothers me.

You realize you're arguing over <0.1% right? It's semantics at this point.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I can only go with what she said in the episode, and from that it seems she can stay in the military as long as she wants, which to me would mean that the repercussions would be the same as far as her family was concerned.

I think most people would say that staying in the Military and having a body altering surgery would result in different social response.

[LazyHunter]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

No, no I'm not. But it's your own opinion if you decide to think that I am.

How is this:

This answer does nothing to answer why she said almost 100% when she's clearly a woman born from the family. It only says why she's desirable. She could have said any other percentile, and if that doesn't bother you, that's fine. I'm just saying that it bothers me.

not making stuff up? I'm getting really confused at what problem you have understanding that she said almost 100% because there's still a very tiny chance that a Capistrano man has a female daughter, which she is proof of. It's not that hard to understand, she said almost 100% because the odds of it happening are not zero, just really small.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Oh, I did pay attention , and no she really didn't answer his question when asked either.

And about the "almost 100%" thing, I will answer with the same thing that I will answer every other person who brings it up. If it's "practically" 100%, then it's NOT 100%. Call it 99.9% or whatever, but as a scientist (which is why this whole thing annoyed me in particular in the first place), I don't like it when they imply absolutes, when there isn't one.

As for what she's saying being "rumors" and such, I didn't get that when she was talking to Qwen, but if you say that's what she meant, then sure whatever, it doesn't make the whole stuation seem any less ridiculous.

As for her not being able to make her own choices about an operation, what is really to stop her? Her family isn't really out there, she's shown that she does go against tradition, and she is suggesting to stay in the military till she becomes an old hag with no children anyway, so she would still be defying expectations of her. If she stays there until she's too old to have children, she would not be able to bear heirs, and if she has an operation, she also won't be having heirs. So, the end result would be the same as far as her family would be concerned.

That doesn't answer the question. Also, considering she is an aberration, it is far more likely that her children would be a aberration as well. She would never know until she actually conceived. And I've already stated why it would be completely dumb to say that she's the one responsible for the sex of the child.

Wow, you made this about something that I wasn't even minutely suggesting. I love the military, I have family, both male and female that have chosen a career serving in the army, and I wholeheartedly support them.

What I was saying was that from the way she is speaking, she suggests that she's in the military in order to avoid the pressures of her position in the nobility. This suggest to me that she's not here purely because that's what she wants to do, but to avoid her problems with her family's genetic issues and what is expected of her. On top of that she's suggesting to stay in the military for as long as possible just to avoid her predestined fate, because even if she retires, that future would still be waiting for her.

Also, for all the women out there who have had those operation, both out of necessity as well as choice, I wouldn't call it "destroying your body needlessly". It's the choice of the woman of what she wants to do. If Froy only has two choices of either hiding in the military all her life or becoming some man's breeding mule, then she can also make a third choice in order to make the second choice an impossibility and this cancelling out the first choice.

You were the one who said that "100%" in your post. Lazyhunter and Froleytia clearly said "almost 100%" and that is better than the usual 50 you'd get with any other woman. It was never stated that Froleytia was the first female Capistrano. She may have had predecessors who proved to have inherited the trait of giving birth to mostly males. Even if she hadn't, the very fact that she comes from a family of all-males makes it worth trying to marry her.

You want her to get her tubes tied and give up any chance of having children just for that? I'm not a woman and clearly you're not either if you think that's a no-brainer. There are people who refuse to give up their limbs even if it means dying.

[Kuroageha]

Problems with reading comprehension I see, huh?

[OH&S]

Funny there's all this back and forth regarding Frolaytia'a backstory. Its easily the most fantasy like story element shoved in our faces (giant balls of death notwithstanding). When I read it in the novels, I just nodded my head in silence and moved on.

[Marcus H.]

Yes, Froleytia's backstory. Froleytia's delicious delicious backstory.

[watisit]

How did Qwenther and Havier end up separated? They were right next to each other. Any explosion strong enough to blow them both far apart should've killed them.