AnimeSuki Forums

Ero-Senn1n · 2004-10-11, 09:02

More and more threads are opened about who would win a battle, who is more powerful, based on the outcome of previous battles and some words spoken during the battle. We can even see such debates in other threads, which have nothing to do with it, and are completely off-topic. Like Gai vs Kakashi, Itachi vs Gai, Kakashi vs Kisame, ... and so on.
I like this anime cuz its not so one-dimensional as it was the DB / DBZ series, even if the mangaka liked that series and we can see the dragonball influence. In DBZ everybody was measured by some device telling hes strength, and who had a big number was ruling them all. And these ppl starting threads about who would win in a battle are really annoying sometimes. Why can't they understand that in Naruto all this is more complex and the value of one warrior is not measured by one number or something like that. It's more complex, like in real life, and that's what it makes so cool. In the Naruto world if A wins over B and B wins over C does not mean that A would win over C. I like Naruto cuz its not so simple here, its much more interesting manga that way.
The last debate which i read here was about the Kisame vs Kakashi battle, which never happened, and the debate was completely offtopic. There were 5 ninja in that battle: Kurenai+Asuma, Itachi+Kisame, Kakashi. Now think about the beginning: when Kurenai used her cool genjutsu move Kisame was helpless, she could stab him in the heart while he was stuck in the genjutsu.
We can assume that in a battle Kurenai vs Asuma -> Asuma wins,
Asuma vs Kisame -> Kisame wins,
BUT
Kurenai vs Kisame -> Kurenai CAN win with genjutsu

And the same case when Itachi does not want the battle with Jiraiya. Oro says Itachi is better than him, We know that Oro is probably better than Jiraiya. But still that 17 year old genius runs off, does not want to face the unknown jutsus off a 50 year old experienced guy.

It's not so simple in Naruto, but much more fun in the story.

ChainLegacy · 2004-10-11, 09:27

What many Naruto fans fail to see is that DBZ and Naruto are EXTREMELY similar. That doesn't mean either of them are one-dimensional, both of them are great at what they set out to do- make some awesome action scenes (beyond that... Well, alot of staring and flashbacks...). I don't see why people get pissed off when these power comparisons come along.

It's really only natural that an anime that revolves around fighting will inspire the fans to theorize as to who would win a fight if they were to battle each other. There just isn't anything wrong with it. Take a series like, say, Serial Experiments Lain, and then babble on about who would win a fight, then, yeah, you aren't making any sense, but in a series that is based upon a foundation of battling it is perfectly acceptable.

Your points about Naruto's fighters having more depth in battle aren't really valid, since DBZ was the same. Goku wasn't as powerful as Majin Buu, but defeated him because he had some pretty kickass techniques. Goku would wreck Krillin, one of the weaker fighters. Now, lets look at that from a Naruto perspective. As you said, different techniques can help determine the outcome different battles, despite their "brute strength," but, as I stated, DBZ is JUST LIKE THAT. Goku can kill Krillin because they are on completely different levels, Kakashi could destroy Sakura because they are on completely different levels.

The similarities between the series are inevitable.

Animizzle · 2004-10-11, 09:37

I believe Killermonk covered most of the things, nice one there.

In addition to that.

If you are not sure about relations between DBZ and Naruto I suggest you read an interview with Kishimoto here

Maybe that will help you "digest" the DBZ comparisons.

You could say the depth of the serie (wich isn't that deep but that's another story) invites people to start threads like that so actually it's a positive thing!

And I don't know if you've been around here long but if you joined this month as your profile says, Vs. threads have always been around and will always be around.

And to put it even simpler:..if you don't like it, have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up.

Trax · 2004-10-11, 09:37

I like the rock paper scissors concept that you notice in some encounters. Tenten's range attacks had no effect on Temari, but probably would have slaughtered someone like Naruto at the time.

Yakushi-san · 2004-10-11, 10:34

Who cares who wins...

I'd like to see Kakashi vs. Kisame because it would make one hell of a fight.
Gai vs. Kisame, lots of speed and Taijutsu combating.
Itachi vs. Gai, ditto!

I'd like to see Orochimaru vs. Itachi! Not because I wanna know who wins, but because it would be awesome to see some awesome jutsu!

Rurik · 2004-10-11, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

More and more threads are opened about who would win a battle, who is more powerful, based on the outcome of previous battles and some words spoken during the battle. We can even see such debates in other threads, which have nothing to do with it, and are completely off-topic. Like Gai vs Kakashi, Itachi vs Gai, Kakashi vs Kisame, ... and so on.
I like this anime cuz its not so one-dimensional as it was the DB / DBZ series, even if the mangaka liked that series and we can see the dragonball influence. In DBZ everybody was measured by some device telling hes strength, and who had a big number was ruling them all. And these ppl starting threads about who would win in a battle are really annoying sometimes. Why can't they understand that in Naruto all this is more complex and the value of one warrior is not measured by one number or something like that. It's more complex, like in real life, and that's what it makes so cool. In the Naruto world if A wins over B and B wins over C does not mean that A would win over C. I like Naruto cuz its not so simple here, its much more interesting manga that way.
The last debate which i read here was about the Kisame vs Kakashi battle, which never happened, and the debate was completely offtopic. There were 5 ninja in that battle: Kurenai+Asuma, Itachi+Kisame, Kakashi. Now think about the beginning: when Kurenai used her cool genjutsu move Kisame was helpless, she could stab him in the heart while he was stuck in the genjutsu.
We can assume that in a battle Kurenai vs Asuma -> Asuma wins,
Asuma vs Kisame -> Kisame wins,
BUT
Kurenai vs Kisame -> Kurenai CAN win with genjutsu

And the same case when Itachi does not want the battle with Jiraiya. Oro says Itachi is better than him, We know that Oro is probably better than Jiraiya. But still that 17 year old genius runs off, does not want to face the unknown jutsus off a 50 year old experienced guy.

It's not so simple in Naruto, but much more fun in the story.

I agree with you in everithing exept one thing......
Itachi did not run off because of Jitaya Uknonw jutsus....there could be many reason exept that.....Remember Itachi have Sharingan and Can Copy almost any jutsu..so doesnt matter if the jutsu is Unknonw to him...he can still copy it with the Sharingan.....at loeast the majoroty of them

Kayess · 2004-10-11, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakushi-san

Who cares who wins...

I'd like to see Kakashi vs. Kisame because it would make one hell of a fight.
Gai vs. Kisame, lots of speed and Taijutsu combating.
Itachi vs. Gai, ditto!

I'd like to see Orochimaru vs. Itachi! Not because I wanna know who wins, but because it would be awesome to see some awesome jutsu!

I wanna see Sakura vs Gamakichi..

Or better yet, Sakura vs Hinata

kboykb · 2004-10-11, 12:01

I just wanna see Sakura 10 years for now. Right now she's just.. a sad little girl to me - who is starting to redeem herself by showing her l33t strength in the last filler

lol I know it's filler, I just hope she's gonna start showing improvement soon.

Ero-Senn1n · 2004-10-11, 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Rurik

I agree with you in everithing exept one thing......
Itachi did not run off because of Jitaya Uknonw jutsus....there could be many reason exept that.....Remember Itachi have Sharingan and Can Copy almost any jutsu..so doesnt matter if the jutsu is Unknonw to him...he can still copy it with the Sharingan.....at loeast the majoroty of them

He needs to see the whole jutsu one time, and next time he can use it. But if he is killed the first time than he wont be able

Just remember Kakashi vs Zabuza and Sasuke vs Lee fights, the next time the sharingan user won using the technique learnt in the previous battle.
If I were Itachi with his copying ability, my thinking about fighting would be exactly the same: if the opponents seem too powerful I would just escape after seeing some of his jutsu. Than in the next fight I can use it to my favour, and the risk of getting killed is minimal. Time works for the sharingan user, he does not need to rush things. I realy dont like this Itachi guy, but seeing all those posts about him being coward is what i didnt like.

Ero-Senn1n · 2004-10-11, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by killermonk

What many Naruto fans fail to see is that DBZ and Naruto are EXTREMELY similar. That doesn't mean either of them are one-dimensional, both of them are great at what they set out to do- make some awesome action scenes (beyond that... Well, alot of staring and flashbacks...). I don't see why people get pissed off when these power comparisons come along.

It's really only natural that an anime that revolves around fighting will inspire the fans to theorize as to who would win a fight if they were to battle each other. There just isn't anything wrong with it. Take a series like, say, Serial Experiments Lain, and then babble on about who would win a fight, then, yeah, you aren't making any sense, but in a series that is based upon a foundation of battling it is perfectly acceptable.

Your points about Naruto's fighters having more depth in battle aren't really valid, since DBZ was the same. Goku wasn't as powerful as Majin Buu, but defeated him because he had some pretty kickass techniques. Goku would wreck Krillin, one of the weaker fighters. Now, lets look at that from a Naruto perspective. As you said, different techniques can help determine the outcome different battles, despite their "brute strength," but, as I stated, DBZ is JUST LIKE THAT. Goku can kill Krillin because they are on completely different levels, Kakashi could destroy Sakura because they are on completely different levels.

The similarities between the series are inevitable.

Dont get me wrong, i like the GOOD comparisons, but most of the comparison posts are like: "my favourite character is X and I will now explain why he is the strongest..." And than he says that Y was beating A and B, and A and B were the best, and X>Y... the outcome is X is the best. Even if X had only one or two fights or so. These X>Y comparisons are which I dont like.
The worst to me are these: Tenten worthless, Sakura worthless, ... these are the ones I dont like. But there are good comparison posts with REAL facts and theories.
So I was interested about what is the opinion of others about these comparison posts and debates.

lotus_lee · 2004-10-11, 16:56

I like X vs Y comparisons because it gives you a chance to argue the hell off with everyone else and to also learn a few new things. However, I don't take them seriously though because after all, this is Naruto and anything can happen.

Guardi · 2004-10-11, 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

More and more threads are opened about who would win a battle, who is more powerful, based on the outcome of previous battles and some words spoken during the battle. We can even see such debates in other threads, which have nothing to do with it, and are completely off-topic. Like Gai vs Kakashi, Itachi vs Gai, Kakashi vs Kisame, ... and so on.
I like this anime cuz its not so one-dimensional as it was the DB / DBZ series, even if the mangaka liked that series and we can see the dragonball influence. In DBZ everybody was measured by some device telling hes strength, and who had a big number was ruling them all. And these ppl starting threads about who would win in a battle are really annoying sometimes. Why can't they understand that in Naruto all this is more complex and the value of one warrior is not measured by one number or something like that. It's more complex, like in real life, and that's what it makes so cool. In the Naruto world if A wins over B and B wins over C does not mean that A would win over C. I like Naruto cuz its not so simple here, its much more interesting manga that way.
The last debate which i read here was about the Kisame vs Kakashi battle, which never happened, and the debate was completely offtopic. There were 5 ninja in that battle: Kurenai+Asuma, Itachi+Kisame, Kakashi. Now think about the beginning: when Kurenai used her cool genjutsu move Kisame was helpless, she could stab him in the heart while he was stuck in the genjutsu.
We can assume that in a battle Kurenai vs Asuma -> Asuma wins,
Asuma vs Kisame -> Kisame wins,
BUT
Kurenai vs Kisame -> Kurenai CAN win with genjutsu

And the same case when Itachi does not want the battle with Jiraiya. Oro says Itachi is better than him, We know that Oro is probably better than Jiraiya. But still that 17 year old genius runs off, does not want to face the unknown jutsus off a 50 year old experienced guy.

It's not so simple in Naruto, but much more fun in the story.

My, 1st post here.

Well, thats exactly my point.
I agree with you 100%.

Its always like "Uh Itachi > All"
"Orochimaru with his Arms healed could beat the Sannins both at the same time"
Bla, bla...
Dont you see that it is more complex ?
A ninja like gai could have a chance against itachi cus he is a pure tai jutsu user, which is dangerous for sharingan, as long as the body cant keep up.
That is just one of many examples.

But btw i think Naruto is the one who is really overpowered. Tell me who could beat him of the genins...maybe even chuunin !? But otherwise the series shouldnt have the name Naruto

So long...

Guardi

BrownRukus · 2004-10-11, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardi

My, 1st post here.

Well, thats exactly my point.
I agree with you 100%.

Its always like "Uh Itachi > All"
"Orochimaru with his Arms healed could beat the Sannins both at the same time"
Bla, bla...
Dont you see that it is more complex ?
A ninja like gai could have a chance against itachi cus he is a pure tai jutsu user, which is dangerous for sharingan, as long as the body cant keep up.
That is just one of many examples.

But btw i think Naruto is the one who is really overpowered. Tell me who could beat him of the genins...maybe even chuunin !? But otherwise the series shouldnt have the name Naruto

So long...

Guardi

Spoiler:

Rurik · 2004-10-11, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

He needs to see the whole jutsu one time, and next time he can use it. But if he is killed the first time than he wont be able

Just remember Kakashi vs Zabuza and Sasuke vs Lee fights, the next time the sharingan user won using the technique learnt in the previous battle.
If I were Itachi with his copying ability, my thinking about fighting would be exactly the same: if the opponents seem too powerful I would just escape after seeing some of his jutsu. Than in the next fight I can use it to my favour, and the risk of getting killed is minimal. Time works for the sharingan user, he does not need to rush things. I realy dont like this Itachi guy, but seeing all those posts about him being coward is what i didnt like.

yeah youre right
but he can do it almost at the same time the enemy execute it the first time...
as you mention Kakshi and Zabuza (you can leave sasuke out of this he pnly had two dots per eye) Kakshi Copied almost at the same time Zabuza Jutsus an counter it...the clone jutsu and the Water atack jutsu....and because he have the eye of insight of sharingan he have the upper hand with the jutsu.

Kovash · 2004-10-11, 19:29

Ultimate Comparison...

Gamakichi VS Pakkun

now THAT is a fight I'd like to see

But seriously; If you don't like VS threads.... don't read them - plain and simple.

Edit: Quoted the wrong post, so I removed it

>_<

UserName · 2004-10-11, 21:36

This thread cracks me up.... Dragonball is less X vs Y comparism based than Naruto... and DBZ there are moments where the weaker ones won the fight or had the upper hand.

I mean, Naruto fans fail to recognize that Naruto is more DBZ like than DBZ itself, the fact that they never watch it and only based it on maybe 1 episode or what other saids kind of annoy sme.

So yeah, DB is a lot more strategical or technique based than Naruto(aside from Shikamaru's fight which is too uncommon for my likes...).

MysticNinjaJay · 2004-10-11, 22:51

Dragonball Z used to hbe my favorite anime. Its what got me into anime. I feel Naruto is far more about tactics when it comes to battle where in DBZ if you are stronger or faster you win ( the majority of the time). One thing I most say is that the anime of Naruto has far more exciting battles because of the way they execute jutsus. All those hand seals and special techniques, even the taijutsu combat is fresh compared with DBZ rehashed jabs and kicks for half the battle. After Dragonball, DBZ got rather stale on techniques and stuck with big and bigger energy balls. The Majin Buu saga got a little more interesting but nothing compared to Naruto with charcters like Orochimaru pulling every creative jutsu out of the book. Naruto is alot like DBZ though, Kishimoto will be the first one to tell you. Personally I think its better, an improvement on an old formula.

Kamui4356 · 2004-10-11, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by UserName

I mean, Naruto fans fail to recognize that Naruto is more DBZ like than DBZ itself, the fact that they never watch it and only based it on maybe 1 episode or what other saids kind of annoy sme.

How can something be more like something else than that other thing is like itself? That doesn't make any sense...

Anyway, Naruto only has as much in common with dbz as it does with any other shonen fighting anime/manga. The fact is all these series differ only in plot and character details. They all follow the same basic structure, and expand from there. Of course there are going to be similiarities betwen naruto and dbz, but you can just as easily compare it to yu yu hakusho, flame of recca, or hunter x hunter. In fact Naruto probably has more in common with hxh than any of ther other ones I mentioned. Yet dbz is the best known, and it pisses of a lot of people when the comparison is made, so people continue to make it.
Just to remind people being similar in no way implies the same level of quality. A geo metro is similar to a bmw 3 series, yet they are no where near each other in performance or quality.

Kayess · 2004-10-11, 23:33

How about we all assume that the x and y comparisons are just coordinates on the x-y plane... and the third person everyone talks about is z...

And they are all perpendicular to eachother!

hokagenaruto3 · 2004-10-12, 07:14

Oro isn't probablyt stronger than Jiraiya, we don't know that. He might have surpassed Oro just as Naruto is surpassing (and sometimes already surpassing Sasuke). We don't know, but the fact that Itachi said that in the best case he would kill Jiraiya, but get killed in the prosses isn't really good for Itachi now is it?

2004-10-11, 09:02	Link #1
Ero-Senn1n Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Hidden Village of Sake	Stupid X vs Y power comparisons More and more threads are opened about who would win a battle, who is more powerful, based on the outcome of previous battles and some words spoken during the battle. We can even see such debates in other threads, which have nothing to do with it, and are completely off-topic. Like Gai vs Kakashi, Itachi vs Gai, Kakashi vs Kisame, ... and so on. I like this anime cuz its not so one-dimensional as it was the DB / DBZ series, even if the mangaka liked that series and we can see the dragonball influence. In DBZ everybody was measured by some device telling hes strength, and who had a big number was ruling them all. And these ppl starting threads about who would win in a battle are really annoying sometimes. Why can't they understand that in Naruto all this is more complex and the value of one warrior is not measured by one number or something like that. It's more complex, like in real life, and that's what it makes so cool. In the Naruto world if A wins over B and B wins over C does not mean that A would win over C. I like Naruto cuz its not so simple here, its much more interesting manga that way. The last debate which i read here was about the Kisame vs Kakashi battle, which never happened, and the debate was completely offtopic. There were 5 ninja in that battle: Kurenai+Asuma, Itachi+Kisame, Kakashi. Now think about the beginning: when Kurenai used her cool genjutsu move Kisame was helpless, she could stab him in the heart while he was stuck in the genjutsu. We can assume that in a battle Kurenai vs Asuma -> Asuma wins, Asuma vs Kisame -> Kisame wins, BUT Kurenai vs Kisame -> Kurenai CAN win with genjutsu And the same case when Itachi does not want the battle with Jiraiya. Oro says Itachi is better than him, We know that Oro is probably better than Jiraiya. But still that 17 year old genius runs off, does not want to face the unknown jutsus off a 50 year old experienced guy. It's not so simple in Naruto, but much more fun in the story.

2004-10-11, 09:37	Link #3
Animizzle Cool as a Cucumber Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Holland	I believe Killermonk covered most of the things, nice one there. In addition to that. If you are not sure about relations between DBZ and Naruto I suggest you read an interview with Kishimoto here Maybe that will help you "digest" the DBZ comparisons. You could say the depth of the serie (wich isn't that deep but that's another story) invites people to start threads like that so actually it's a positive thing! And I don't know if you've been around here long but if you joined this month as your profile says, Vs. threads have always been around and will always be around. And to put it even simpler:..if you don't like it, have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. __________________ hm....

2004-10-11, 09:27	Link #2
ChainLegacy 廉頗 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Massachusetts Age: 34	What many Naruto fans fail to see is that DBZ and Naruto are EXTREMELY similar. That doesn't mean either of them are one-dimensional, both of them are great at what they set out to do- make some awesome action scenes (beyond that... Well, alot of staring and flashbacks...). I don't see why people get pissed off when these power comparisons come along. It's really only natural that an anime that revolves around fighting will inspire the fans to theorize as to who would win a fight if they were to battle each other. There just isn't anything wrong with it. Take a series like, say, Serial Experiments Lain, and then babble on about who would win a fight, then, yeah, you aren't making any sense, but in a series that is based upon a foundation of battling it is perfectly acceptable. Your points about Naruto's fighters having more depth in battle aren't really valid, since DBZ was the same. Goku wasn't as powerful as Majin Buu, but defeated him because he had some pretty kickass techniques. Goku would wreck Krillin, one of the weaker fighters. Now, lets look at that from a Naruto perspective. As you said, different techniques can help determine the outcome different battles, despite their "brute strength," but, as I stated, DBZ is JUST LIKE THAT. Goku can kill Krillin because they are on completely different levels, Kakashi could destroy Sakura because they are on completely different levels. The similarities between the series are inevitable.

2004-10-11, 09:37	Link #4
Trax Rock beats scissors Join Date: Jul 2004	I like the rock paper scissors concept that you notice in some encounters. Tenten's range attacks had no effect on Temari, but probably would have slaughtered someone like Naruto at the time.

2004-10-11, 10:34	Link #5
Yakushi-san Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004	Who cares who wins... I'd like to see Kakashi vs. Kisame because it would make one hell of a fight. Gai vs. Kisame, lots of speed and Taijutsu combating. Itachi vs. Gai, ditto! I'd like to see Orochimaru vs. Itachi! Not because I wanna know who wins, but because it would be awesome to see some awesome jutsu!

2004-10-11, 12:01	Link #8
kboykb Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004	I just wanna see Sakura 10 years for now. Right now she's just.. a sad little girl to me - who is starting to redeem herself by showing her l33t strength in the last filler lol I know it's filler, I just hope she's gonna start showing improvement soon.

2004-10-11, 16:56	Link #11
lotus_lee Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: London, UK Age: 38	I like X vs Y comparisons because it gives you a chance to argue the hell off with everyone else and to also learn a few new things. However, I don't take them seriously though because after all, this is Naruto and anything can happen.

2004-10-11, 19:29	Link #15
Kovash Why am I still here!? Join Date: Oct 2004	Ultimate Comparison... Gamakichi VS Pakkun now THAT is a fight I'd like to see But seriously; If you don't like VS threads.... don't read them - plain and simple. Edit: Quoted the wrong post, so I removed it >_<

2004-10-11, 21:36	Link #16
UserName Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004	This thread cracks me up.... Dragonball is less X vs Y comparism based than Naruto... and DBZ there are moments where the weaker ones won the fight or had the upper hand. I mean, Naruto fans fail to recognize that Naruto is more DBZ like than DBZ itself, the fact that they never watch it and only based it on maybe 1 episode or what other saids kind of annoy sme. So yeah, DB is a lot more strategical or technique based than Naruto(aside from Shikamaru's fight which is too uncommon for my likes...).

2004-10-11, 22:51	Link #17
MysticNinjaJay Ninja Emperor Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 39	Dragonball Z used to hbe my favorite anime. Its what got me into anime. I feel Naruto is far more about tactics when it comes to battle where in DBZ if you are stronger or faster you win ( the majority of the time). One thing I most say is that the anime of Naruto has far more exciting battles because of the way they execute jutsus. All those hand seals and special techniques, even the taijutsu combat is fresh compared with DBZ rehashed jabs and kicks for half the battle. After Dragonball, DBZ got rather stale on techniques and stuck with big and bigger energy balls. The Majin Buu saga got a little more interesting but nothing compared to Naruto with charcters like Orochimaru pulling every creative jutsu out of the book. Naruto is alot like DBZ though, Kishimoto will be the first one to tell you. Personally I think its better, an improvement on an old formula.

2004-10-11, 23:33	Link #19
Kayess Guy From Canada Join Date: Jan 2004 Age: 38	How about we all assume that the x and y comparisons are just coordinates on the x-y plane... and the third person everyone talks about is z... And they are all perpendicular to eachother!

2004-10-12, 07:14	Link #20
hokagenaruto3 Crescent & Star Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Amsterdam Age: 37	Oro isn't probablyt stronger than Jiraiya, we don't know that. He might have surpassed Oro just as Naruto is surpassing (and sometimes already surpassing Sasuke). We don't know, but the fact that Itachi said that in the best case he would kill Jiraiya, but get killed in the prosses isn't really good for Itachi now is it?