2007-09-27, 07:21 | Link #1 | |
Iä! Shub-Niggurath!
Fansubber
Join Date: Apr 2007
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GONZO sending C&Ds
Taken from www.shinsen-subs.org:
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Like mentioned in the quote, this is probably the first time that the Japanese production studio asks the fansubbers to stop subbing and serving their ongoing show. This could have a big impact on fansubbing in general if other Japanese companies intend to adopt this kind of a policy as well. |
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2007-09-27, 11:00 | Link #2 |
Gaijin
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York, NY
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Hmmm, unless Funimation holds the rights to Romeo x Juliet it isn't really a violation of the DMCA. So I assume they just haven't announced licensing yet, or it hasn't been formalized. I mean aside from it not making sense within the text of the DMCA, if they really thought an un-licensed anime distro was a violation of the DMCA they would have mentioned all of the other Gonzo titles you are subbing/have subbed.
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2007-09-27, 14:49 | Link #4 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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Bleh... more fun in the vein of MFI.
I'd just like to know how the hell I'm supposed to make an informed choice on what DVDs to buy without having seen the broadcast series. Answer: if I can't see the broadcast series... I'll return to my pre-fansub days of not buying much of anything. If they want to exercise this sort of thing, they *need* to be broadcasting subbed series to the R1 region. And no, Adult Swim, CN, don't cut it --- they don't show the gamut of what is being broadcasted nor do they usually show the genres I'm interested in. This isn't me taking a chance on a $20 movie I've not seen... this is me looking at plunking several hundred dollars down on a series. Therefore, I think getting the same preview that japanese consumers get is important.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2007-09-27 at 15:19. |
2007-09-27, 14:59 | Link #5 |
King of the l33t
IT Support
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By authorizing Funimation to act as an agent of GONZO, it is perfectly allowed for them to send DMCA notices on their behalf. If GONZO did not make such an authorization, Funimation could indeed get in trouble for filing a false DMCA request. I doubt they'd be that stupid, however.
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2007-09-27, 15:03 | Link #6 |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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one of these days i am going to go to a anime convention and ask the anime company reps directly about fansubs. I am also going to show photos of my massive anime collection and ask them if they really the want to me stop watching fansubs and mot buy any of theirr dvds.
Every anime dvd i own i have either seen the entire series before or at least partial of it.
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2007-09-27, 15:20 | Link #7 | |
Gaijin
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York, NY
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2007-09-27, 15:32 | Link #8 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In a world all my own
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Five years ago, I probably spent $40-60 per year on anime (mostly the latest Miyazaki movie or some other high-profile anime). This year I have already spent over $500-600 and will probably be closer to $1000 by the end of the year. All of them series that I saw as fansubs first. |
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2007-09-27, 15:52 | Link #9 |
Silent Warrior
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Netherlands
Age: 38
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Ah fansubbers see this as a sign give up on anime and start working on manga. <3
On a serious note. That's fucked up imho. Unless it's 100% sure they are going to make english releases. Still I always find it gay that we have to w8 so long for a crappier release. >.> The only good part is the quality of the vids, but that's about it. |
2007-09-27, 16:04 | Link #11 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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@mdauben: Same story here... prior to learning about fansubs, I spent on the average..... $0/year on DVDs, figures, etc.
With fansubs, I now swing between $1000 and $1500 a year on DVDs, figures, CDs, etc. Fansubs give me the same preview access that japanese region consumers get. There are no 'official' equivalents in R1-land. In Japan, many consumers watch the broadcast series without buying a thing ... are they leechers? Nope. That's an insta-fail argument. Its very simple, C&Ders should provide an access method for viewing anime series just like the way japanese consumers get that includes such diversity as I get through fansubs. Now if they want to jump up and down on fansubs of *DVDs* ... I'd say "here's a club, work up a sweat " ... but drop the region coding or even that argument looks weak.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2007-09-27 at 16:17. |
2007-09-27, 16:11 | Link #12 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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The first anime company to send out a C&D was Media Factory over Akane Maniax and it was a C&D for all Media Factory titles past present and future. Animesuki was one of the websites to get the C&D. In the discussion on it I explained why they sent it. You see the Japanese companies are not to happy about fansubs but they see it as a problem that American companies should take care of so for only rare exceptions they will not do anything.
Two of these exceptions are 1) the fansub is released before the street date of a DVD only release (Akane Maniax) 2) the fansubs are used to make subbed DVDs that are put on the net or even worse sold. I think number 2 is the reason that Romeo x Juliet is getting a C&D about it. I know that fansubed versions of Vol 1 and 2 have been made and put on the net even though I don't know if it's using the Shinsen fansubs as I have not watched the shinsen releases of the Fansubed DVDs I can't for a fact say that is the reason but something like that would really upset Gonzo and cause them to act. As far as who sends out the C&D it's more effective to have an American company used as a proxy than for the Japanese to do it themselves. Paying or just authorizing Funimation to do it saves Gonzo both time and money and still sends the same message. [we are not at all happy with what you are doing or what is going on]. ps. Don't bother Personal mailing me about how or where to find the DVD fansubs as I only look to see what's out there and have no reason to waste bandwith downloading them. I spend $200-$300 per month on R2 DVDs alone with Over half of my R2 DVD collection being from Gonzo or Media Factory. I do support Geneon by getting both R1 and R2 releases of the shows I like the best but Solty Rei is the last FUNimation release I will ever buy (it has nothing to do with them sending out C&Ds I just don't like some of the things they do.) |
2007-09-27, 16:15 | Link #13 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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Frequently Asked Questions about the DMCA Safe Harbor and Take Down Provisions
It's really unclear to me how the DMCA applies to fansubbers like Shinsen, especially if the torrent files don't reside on a server that Shinsen itself maintains. Take down notices were intended to be used when a "service provider" (a very broad term in the DMCA that includes both web site hosting services and search engines, among others) is found to be distributing infringing materials or, more relevant here, providing links to infringing materials. Often the ISP is totally unaware of the existence of the infringing materials since they could have been uploaded by one of its customers. (The "Safe Harbor" provisions concern the requirements ISPs must follow to be exempt from prosecution for infringement.) This isn't to say that fansubbing does not per se infringe the copyright of the program owner; I believe it does. But that's not the situation the DMCA is designed to handle. I think a lot of rights holders are sending out DMCA notices because they have much weaker requirements, and thus considerably lower costs, than actually bringing suit against someone for infringement. IANAL, but I do follow these issues.
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2007-09-27, 17:03 | Link #14 | |
Gaijin
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York, NY
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I also will note that IANAL....yet ;x |
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2007-09-27, 17:20 | Link #15 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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And again, I'd have to ask... there's a demonstrated *need* being supplied by fansubs that benefits the industry (viewing broadcast series and then buying the DVDs -- exactly the model used in japan but met by the televison stations there that anime producers pay to air their series). The C&Ds may "protect" IP (don't get me started about IP concepts) but they're still not responding to the *basic* business problem of how do you expect consumers to buy your products when they can't see the "advertisements" (the broadcast series)?
I'd really like to see these C&Ds coupled with anime producers providing a channel that provides subbed torrents of broadcast series for some flat fee (again looking at the equivalent model in Japan where the producers have to pay to get their 'advertisements'(series) on the air). There's just a serious lack of solution seeking here ...
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Last edited by Vexx; 2007-09-27 at 17:33. |
2007-09-27, 17:54 | Link #17 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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As fansubs violate the Morality Rights in Japanese copyright laws Companies dislike it for that reason. Also if you look at the bottom of the article you will see damages from Japanese courts ($80 US) VS. American Courts ($400,000 US) would lead the Japanese companies to use US companies to protect the Japanese copyrights. They can't sue in US courts for Morality rights but can for distribution rights. |
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2007-09-27, 18:43 | Link #18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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A reminder that thanks to the wording of the DMCA, anything "enabling" copyright infringement can be C&D'd. If there are instructions to use a black pen to bypass copyright protection, the company can C&D them to remove that information.
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Incorrect. There were multiple C&Ds prior to the MFI one. This is just the one everyone remembers. One prior example is a C&D from KyoAni regarding Munto. |
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2007-09-28, 00:16 | Link #20 | ||
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 67
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Last edited by Vexx; 2007-09-28 at 01:09. |
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