2009-07-18, 07:18 | Link #2181 | ||
Secret Society BLANKET
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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2009-07-18, 07:47 | Link #2182 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Actually, my take on anti-stealth in nanohaverse would be that it demands an active participation from the mage, or else it taxes the device so much it is considered useless in most moment (very few mages are capable of stealth).
Also, it is my impression that stealth require more power even than anti-stealth, meaning that once the enemy knows you are there, it's *very* hard to use. The numbers, of course, weren't really mages, and teana trained with subaru too. |
2009-07-18, 15:15 | Link #2183 |
blinded by blood
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Well, I was just worried that a post of a new character would be against the rules of the thread unless I also commented on someone else's creation, but there's so many pages of back-and-forth banter that I didn't really want to sift through it all to find something to comment on. =|
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2009-07-18, 16:08 | Link #2185 |
Once and Current Subber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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One has to wonder about those stealth drones.
They're obviously a lot more effective than normal ones. They managed to get through and put little Nanoha out of action, even if it was kind of a golden BB lucky hit that got her right when she had a different problem. And enough of them almost stopped Vita, which I don't know you could have done with any number of conventional drones. So why is Jail bothering with tons of the "junk" gadgets and not more of these beasts instead? Deniability, maybe? If these nasty evil invisible drones are everywhere, snarfing up Relics, then Regius would have a much harder time stepping on anti-AMF development. By having a bunch of expendable and not-all-that-dangerous gadgets doing the grunt work, Jail doesn't look all that dangerous, Regius can keep anti-AMF development isolated, and he can still occasionally send out a few of the stealthers when it's REALLY important. |
2009-07-18, 16:37 | Link #2188 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Nope, that's pretty much it. |
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2009-07-18, 17:50 | Link #2190 | |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Also makes for some juicy NanoVita. :3 You mean magic resistance of the Fate/Stay Night kind? |
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2009-07-18, 18:08 | Link #2191 | |
Beta by Accident
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Maine
Age: 52
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Hm...do we ever see Type IVs actually flying, though? A lack of mobility might be the Achilles' heel that makes them difficult to send them in and out rapidly, particularly if the stealth function is a big power-burner that can't be maintained for an extended period of time. And although they do manage to critically injure Vita in the Cradle, that's an entire army of them (dozens? hundreds? thousands??) against one mage (okay, a AAA+, yes, but even so) under AMF conditions. Their effectiveness might not be all that overwhelming in less-favorable situations... |
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2009-07-18, 18:10 | Link #2192 |
blinded by blood
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More along the lines of AD&D style magic resistance. A degree of resistance to all magic, beneficial or harmful alike. Healing spells fail on Nena just as often as attack magic does (if not more often), and she can't be teleported or use transfer ports that directly affect her (she's restricted to existing gates and portals).
Her resistance isn't even close to absolute, but she can easily withstand the beams from a grunt clerk's staff, passive search magic and weak barriers/defensive magics. Finding her isn't as simple as finding a "blank" spot in the magic background radiation as someone using an AMF to mask their presence; she doesn't push back magic, just resists its effects. Sufficient power or skill behind the spell will pierce her resistance.
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2009-07-18, 18:20 | Link #2193 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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how does she resist? AMF doesn't push back either: it unlinks the magic. for a better phrasing, it takes the spell and makes it just normal magical energy, if i understand it right. so it dissipates. Raising heart did call it a "jammer field".
Your resistance... i have trouble thinking what it could be beyond a linker core that automaticly makes some kind of shields alike Signum's Aura from a past trauma... |
2009-07-18, 18:23 | Link #2194 |
blinded by blood
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The how and why she resists will all be explained in the story. The short version is that she's resistant to magic, and through some processes and augmentations, she becomes more resistant to magic.
There's no need for a Treknobabble explanation because, well... it's magic! A wizard did it!
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2009-07-18, 23:16 | Link #2196 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I know you'll try and insist that timing the velocity reference is invalid (even though you can present no real counterevidence), but without that, I'll have to extrapolate what happened there by their response speeds in the anime, which will come to much the same conclusion. The only way you can say they blocked bullets and shells worthy of their Terran forms is if you insist that they must be exactly like Terra's, even though there's no reason to do so. Well said. And that's why I actually think Regius and the High Council really had the right thing going. The current TSAB situation is just not sustainable in the long term. The only other solution is some effective mechanical magiweapons, but for one thing their ground-level magiweapons aren't working well (if the tanks were any indication), and if mechanical magiweapons got a thing going, it is just going to become the new generation of tools "a child could use" (their argument against mass weapons). Quote:
If we use current or near-future Earth levels as a benchmark ... for example, a scenario where they try and "Manage" Earth ... combined with their tactical incompetence, the TSAB will have to start considering overturning the table and threatening with the Arc very soon. Once the wonder of magic fades away, things would get very nasty for the Middies. Barrier Jackets seem to be reasonably good against high energy or highly energetic particles such as fire or magic, but against kinetics ... well, the leader of the pack is a barrier jacket getting cut by windblast but watching over the 3 series it is not hard to conclude that they just aren't very effective. Of course, this is a physically predictable result. Thus, a mage would probably have a much better time against a bunch of "advanced" enemies armed with lasers or particle beams, and much harder time against "primitive slugthrowers" in the supersonic range. If you expand the consideration to using specific defenses ... they can be effective against a certain amount of blast-fragmentation (we've seen that in the manga when they resisted a explosion) by extension it is reasonable to say that they can resist bullets if properly prepared. But the limits are actually circumscribed - defending took 3 mages that were figured to be about rank A overall, and in fact the enemies predicted it'll take 4 (so figures that the 3 mages were a bit better than they figured), and they have to be alerted to the incident and they won't be doing much attacking while resisting. Invading Earth can probably be done (depending on how many mages and of what types they actually have), IF the Middies handle things properly they might make it or at least make an honorable fight, but the ways they are... magic just doesn't buy them enough in the bulk of their mage army (sub-A) that they can ignore tactics. The end result would likely be a slaughter. A few elite mages will cause disproportionate losses (probably the guys that can evade fast with moves like Sonic Move more than the good shooters), but seem unlikely to survive in the end. Last edited by arkhangelsk; 2009-07-18 at 23:45. Reason: Extending with more replies. |
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2009-07-19, 08:02 | Link #2197 |
blinded by blood
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I was being facetious. Magic is inherently inexplicable--it doesn't adhere to the laws of reality. How can I explain something that doesn't adhere to the laws of reality plausibly?
Does MGLN itself ever try to explain the scientific principles behind this mysterious energy called "magic?" Of course not, because magic isn't science and science isn't magic. Contrary to popular belief, MGLN doesn't create magic with science, but allows magic and science to coexist.
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2009-07-19, 08:34 | Link #2198 | |
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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I do find the ""A Wizard Did it" does not cut it." line rather presumptous by itself though... since there are still lots of things in the Nanohaverse that we don't understand and might not be able to understand with science and logic, due to the nature of magic in general (and of course the writer's various limitations, financial and intellectual, when they created the series). Besides, many people in OC do the "explain over the course of the story" schtick, and I believe you shouldn't be denied such a right to do the same for your character.
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2009-07-19, 10:14 | Link #2199 | |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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There is some base in science in Nanoverse magic.
All Nanoha magic in cannon has followed the following: Quote:
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2009-07-19, 10:33 | Link #2200 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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And yet by the same measure they ignore them outright. Such as magic having the ability to pound holes through bulkheads while leaving the person fired at unharmed as far as physical damage goes.
Saying "physics work like this, so magic works like this" is not a phrase that counts for everything. |
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