2010-07-17, 02:33 | Link #3282 | ||||
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2010-07-17, 02:43 | Link #3283 |
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The above is what is suspicious - Battler is "Dead". Are we supposed to believe that? Ange was also listed as dead at the end of Episode 4. Her death was offscreen. Are we supposed to then suppose that Ange was not killed? What does that mean about the rest of the Game Records? Battler is killed in the first twilight, and is listed as thus, so I'm personally at a crossroads about whether or not Battler is alive, and in some theories concerning two Battlers, this issue becomes crucial.
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2010-07-17, 02:46 | Link #3284 |
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wait shkannon can not escape no matter what.
Know that it is forbidden for blue truth to be used if based on the argument that the window seals of the next room over were torn at the time of the logic error.At the time the next room over was sealed, Hideyoshi, George, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Nanjo were in it. And, the number of people in the next room over was five. No one existed there except for those to whom those five names referred! All people can only use their own names!! I know that Erika was given method X but only for arguing's sake of the things wich will happen next. So here is my blue:It is impossible to put tape on 2 rooms and windows at the same time just after leaving one of them. therefore !Kanon! escaped the cousins room while Erica was sealing it off. realtering the timeline is sci-fi and not mystery. How did Kanon escape? after helping Battler? Battler and Kanon are different people. There was no reason to state that if it was impossible for Kanon to escape without help. Therfore Kanon used this method to escape. The game ended while I was inside the guest room, so I did not undo the chain lock that I had previously set. So, it can't be that he escaped behind my back after I left the room. Erika did not undo the chain lock that she set. Kanon did, then he used the Masterkey to capture Erika and sealing the room again. FurFur:Unknown/Jessica Zepar:Unknown/George Goats:Fantasy if you go by the number of these 2 demons they can form Sayo and Yoshiya. furfur is the 23. deamon SaYo. Zepar is 16. 4+4+8= YoShiYa Goats are to believed a natural disaster, in ep 2 the bomb goes off while rosa tries to escape to the shore. in ep4 the tunnel collapses. |
2010-07-17, 02:47 | Link #3285 | |||
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For example, lets say Juuza don't really kill Ange in the end, but pretend he did so. The End Roll list her as 'dead', even tough she is alive. PP: Quote:
The forbidding of the blue truth don't really mean nothing. Just that that theory couldn't be presented, even if it was true. Anyway, that 'seal' was latter removed so Erika could present her own blue truth using the window. Quote:
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2010-07-17, 03:04 | Link #3286 |
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So, I was really worried reading this since Shannon=Kanon was being laid on really thick and that would be pretty lame. However, at the end, it was completely denied.
I feel like we finally got a solid answer as to who Asumu's Battler is - Kanon. The reason Kanon can escape from the guest room is clear, and they pretty much spell it out for us. If Kanon's name was Purupurupikoru, then he would have had to be in the sealed room, because "everyone else" was in that room. It is explained that "everyone else" does not include the 6 people "dead" or the 5 people in the next room over. That means Kanon can escape as long as his name is the same as one of those 11. Also, people can only use their own names. Since Shannon is confirmed as one of the 5 in the sealed room, and nobody else can use Shannon's name, she pretty much has to be in there. This rules her out as a possible savior for Battler. Kanon has to take one of the other 10 viable names, and conveniently, we know the real names of everyone else listed. This means the only possible name to pick is one we know there exist 2 of - Battler. So Kanon's real name is Battler, born of Asumu. Whether he got out of the window or wasn't even in the room when Erika sealed it is irrelevant. The next question is, how did he disappear from the guest room? Given how we've gotten this far, it should be pretty clear by now how he managed that. He switches from being Kanon to being Battler, but a different Battler than the one being talked about. If you have 2 Battlers, then red text "Battler does not exist in this room." and "Battler does exist in this room." can both be valid! If you're curious as to where he was hiding, since Erika opened the closet, he was probably under the bed! |
2010-07-17, 03:05 | Link #3287 | |
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Actually it seems like we might get more mileage out of deciding that people *aren't* lying and are actually telling the truth.. but their own subjective truth. Like for example when Maria says she really did see magic; she's not lying. Of course she doesn't know HOW that magic was performed.. of course... Ok, so technically we know the End Roll is lying. But what if it's not lying; what if it's merely reporting on something else, like the fake murders the servants are running. It seems to be some kind of end report to that, instead... Maybe this is what Ryukishi says, if you have no love you can't discern 視る it. 8) |
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2010-07-17, 03:19 | Link #3288 | ||
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Also, look at this: "[Request: 'The six first twilight victims are located at the places where they were discovered. Natsuhi is in her room, Eva is in the VIP room, Kyrie is in Krauss's study, Rosa and Maria are in the parlor, and you are in the guest room!'] I acknowledge it." (emphasis mine) From Umineko Wiki. When reporting when the victims were, Battler was the only one not mentioned by name. Therefore, even if Kanon was named Battler, this don't mean nothing, as it was never said that "Battler was in the guest room". Anyway, This hardly "completely deny" Shkannon. Also, lets make something clear: I also agree Shkannon is lame. However, after all these 'trial of love', '3 souls being one' and 'two loves who couldn't be fulfilled at same time' talk, I also thing that Shkannon not existing is even more lame. What would be the point of these scenes that took half of the Episode? |
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2010-07-17, 03:21 | Link #3289 | |
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2010-07-17, 03:25 | Link #3290 | |
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2010-07-17, 03:27 | Link #3291 | |
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I just hope it's a meta-meta-meta troll and Hachijou really is a bad writer who gets torn to shreds by a new message bottle that rips her theories apart. Ah well, we can dream...
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2010-07-17, 03:39 | Link #3293 | |
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2010-07-17, 03:41 | Link #3294 | ||
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Nothing against Battler/Beatrice, but Shkannon, Jessica and George are far from being my favorite characters. If we are talking about shipping, Krauss/Natsuhi and Dlanor/Erika are certainly more interesting, if only because Natsuhi and Dlanor are awesome and deserver every bit of screen time they get. If for character alone lets have more Gohda! We need him being as awesome as he was at EP2! And more Rosa and Maria as they were at the end of EP2 too. Anyway, I hope this episode is the conclusion of the cousins/servants bit. Hope we move on for more interesting character next Episode. Quote:
Also, notice how Dlanor phosphatase " the complete sealing". This may mean the it was incompletely sealed until that point. That is it, just the windows were sealed. |
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2010-07-17, 03:44 | Link #3295 | |
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I just happen to think the parents' relationships are a lot more realistic, sensible, interesting, and to be quite honest, romantic. Krauss and Natsuhi bumbling through their relationship in spite of their rather massive personal insecurities and problems is what makes their romance compelling. George is portrayed as a sappy emotionally abusive weirdo. Shannon is an enigma who may be several other people and Beatrice. Jessica's alright, but Kanon just sort of spins his wheels until halfway into ep6 and may not exist in the first place, so that's a wash. And what's happened to Beatrice over time is pretty much just a travesty. I get that she wasn't really evil. Was it really necessary to try to tug at my emotions by halfassedly "killing" her, then killing her "for real," then swearing she can't come back, then bringing her back (essentially, if not in fact) anyway, within the span of barely two episodes? She was barely even cold before she was back in ep6. Believe me, this thing is a lot better as a mystery or a fantasy than it is as a romance. Unless that's the point.
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2010-07-17, 03:45 | Link #3296 | |
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2010-07-17, 03:54 | Link #3297 | |
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And, anyway, if I am correct then the seal were placed, (retroactively) before Erika asking Battler to confirm the position. Therefore, Kanon can only be live the room if he was never there. PP: I agree with pretty much all Renall said as well (not that anyone cares). |
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2010-07-17, 04:02 | Link #3298 | |
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2010-07-17, 04:10 | Link #3299 |
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If Shkannon is true, Kannon died twice.
Also,when they killed Rosa and Maria,are you implying she pretented to be Kannon,killed Rosa and changes herself, and kills Maria. What?Disregarding the love trial which was fake,why wouldn't it just be said as Shannon killed both of them other than Kannon killing one and Shannon killing the other. Also about your theory on the half souls,I've also come up with one. Beatrice/Shannon gave her love of Battler to someone else.I think it's Jessica. Now regarding the other soul Kannon,I will forEver continue to fight the Skannon theory.Simply because it outright contradicts the fact of Kannon being a soul at all.You cannot say that Beatrice and Shannon AND Kannon are together simply because Shannon gave Beatrice to someone else.And Beatrice being a half soul,found someone else.Kannon.Now the trick is finding out who he is,and I will not say Beatrice found Shannon.That is condratiction. |
2010-07-17, 04:19 | Link #3300 | ||
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Also this is like "person X escaped with method Y" "IMPOSSIBLE! allow me to remove rule A so i can thing of something. Okey i now know a way" "oh yes that is totaly method Y" this is considered cheating and again retroactive. You can not do move 2 before move 1 at least i'd like that. I proclaim that the logic error has been avoided!! 'The chain lock is still set! And without any contradictions with any red truth made up to this point!' Quote:
The same with Battler's room. i do not accept the seal on the door BEFORE Erika gets there. not that it changes anything. retroactive? they tell us that magic is nothing more than trickery but bending Time is fine?. Okey maybe i do accept this one if the loophole works I am not against Shkannon i just want to try every viewpoint i can find to see if there were other possibilities. Also It is possible for Kanon the rescue himself. I'd say the final scroll is the ritual. you need to kill everyone off acording to the twilights to reach the "goal" and in EP6 it clearly shows that they do not need to be REALLY dead. Last edited by winter 923; 2010-07-17 at 04:52. |
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