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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episodes 11 & 12 Ratings | |||
Perfect 10 | 276 | 67.65% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 70 | 17.16% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 40 | 9.80% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 14 | 3.43% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 6 | 1.47% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 0.25% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 1 | 0.25% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 408. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-05-12, 05:09 | Link #1121 | |
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And her "final enemy", which was her witch form (aka herself) was destroyed by Madoka's own wish, which took the form of herself because she wished to erase the witches with "her own hands". This paradox (aka, Madoka destroying Madoka) was what erased her from the universe. She didn't just lose her "corporeal existence". Being "born" from the paradox that is to kill herself, she became a non-existent existence, a paradoxical being, a non-being, of you will.
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2011-05-12, 05:11 | Link #1122 | |
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Location: Philippines
Age: 47
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Last edited by sa547; 2011-05-12 at 07:36. |
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2011-05-12, 05:28 | Link #1123 | |
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however, madoka's darkened soul gem did reach the ultimate kriemhild gretchen. and it's the only one witch "attacked" (not cleansed) by yellow-eyed madoka. i wonder if there is more into this... |
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2011-05-12, 05:41 | Link #1125 | |
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A super big hint of this is the present of an Antoni (a Witch familiar) in that scene, even thought it shouldn't be possible for a familiar to exist since Madoka had already took care of all the witches of the universe before that moment. Therefore, the Antoni was there just for epic value (even thought its presence there was totally nonsensical, plot wise). That same with witch Madoka. no doubt. That's all there is to it IMO.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-05-12 at 05:51. |
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2011-05-12, 07:34 | Link #1126 | |||
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i was hoping that there's more to it to expand, hopefully for another season or in the spinoff (though unlikely in the latter). but who knows, they might change their mind and give us more treat |
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2011-05-12, 14:57 | Link #1128 | |
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There's no way to sure though.
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2011-05-13, 07:07 | Link #1129 | ||||
Twilight lander
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And yes, Antony is there for the visual sake, this I'm pretty sure of. Even though I can't call Madoka a deity per se, there's nothing to argue about in regards to the theological allusions thrown in to make her look as one - since her becoming hope for Puella Magi, the hope for them to be redeemed after death... is as big a deja vu as any person who's ever HEARD about the Bible can get. Quote:
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The Kyouko and Sayaka part... just make THAT come true, Magica Quartet, and I might even forgive you the fact that Sayaka still dies in the end... And as to Homura's wings, I'm currently resting on the option that they are part of her new magical equipment. I really wonder if she's [one of] the strongest Puella Magi in the new world. By pure magic alone, that is - I don't even mentioned her retained memories, including the WHOLE battle experience (of course, she dealt with a different kind of enemy before, and by different means... but still, she may be looking like a spetsnaz veteran compared to Mami and Kyouko ). |
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2011-05-13, 13:23 | Link #1130 | ||
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Well, whatever positivity added to the universe by Madoka's wish was obviously going to be countered by the universe itself adding enough new negativity to the system to keep the sum to ZERO. So, it's only natural that changes are kept to the minimum.
More importantly, Madoda's wish changed things, but overall, things didn't get any better, because in the end the balance is always ZERO. Then again, this is not completely true (). Something that wasn't supposed to happen did happen, which is Homura remembering Madoka. This means that instead of 0, the balance is 0,000...01. In that respect, Homura may possibly be the only actual HOPE of salvation for the world, which, as Homura explained, is inevitably heading towards destruction. Is it really? Achieving Nirvana pretty much means total detachment from everything that makes you human. Some people call it the "end of the world" because while you gain a perfect awareness of the universe, you lose your personal one (and yeah, I'm aware this is a paradox lol). "you can only appreciate the sweet with the bitter." I don't remember who said this but the meaning is clear: it's only because there's sadness and sorrow that you can appreciate happiness. Now, Nirvana, means to finally be free from all the "negative" emotions and as such, you end up being absolutely detached from the "positive" ones, since in the end, neither experience can exists without the other. From a purely humanistic stand point, Nirvana is very very sad!! Quote:
I think Gen wanted to make it so that, due to her wish, Madoka would become hope itself, because that sounds really cool. But that's a misunderstanding of what hope really means. Hope is in the knowledge, in the memory, in the belief of an act, not in the act itself. Let's put in a different way. What would be the point of a god, whoever it is, if nobody knows about it, nobody believes in it. There would be no point, because the freaking point is the belief, not whether such god actually exists or not. It's that belief or knowledge what gives people hope. This is why it was so important for the apostles of Jesus to go around the world telling everyone about what Jesus did. Otherwise there would have been no point in his sacrifice, and his hope would have been only "alive" in those few who knew about him. Gen (arguably) created god, but that existence can not be hope itself, as Gen tried to sell to the viewer. It is only in the knowledge, the belief, or the memories, of what "god" Madoka did for all the other magical girls, that hope really exists. But the problem is, that only Homura knows about that, so she's the only one wherein Madoka's hope is really "alive". This would change if Homura were to go preaching about Madoka like a real prophet, like the apostles who went around the world telling everyone about Jesus and what he did. But I don't see Homura doing that, it's just not in her character. Instead of spreading Madoka's hope around the magical world, what I can see Homura doing is to become a personification of this hope herself, and take the burden of saving the world all into herself. Quote:
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-05-13 at 14:04. |
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2011-05-13, 16:33 | Link #1131 | |||||
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Then again, there are other characters. Oriko, for example - not foreseeing WN could easily change her path completely. |
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2011-05-13, 17:02 | Link #1132 | |
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If you ask me, that scene is there to force the viewer to believe that somehow magical girls themselves can tell they are better off in this world, even if there's no way they could understand that without knowing about Madoka, as you noted. In fact, QB outright tells Homura they don't really know why exhausted soul gems disappear, so for Mami to be saying what she said is just not possible. It's inconsistency for the sake of getting across Gem's ideas. But this happened because Gen never understood the real meaning of hope to begin with.
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2011-05-14, 01:38 | Link #1133 |
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maybe someone noticed this before, but i happen to start doubting if tatsuya really recalls madoka as her onee-chan or has memories that belongs to past timelines parallel to homu-chan.
as he was etching madoka's outline in the sand in ep 12, tatsuya's caricature was dressed in pm. could he possibly witnessed his onee-chan transforming or fighting in her pm attire? or did the now-force-of-nature-madoka appear in his dreams or in apparitions? what i can make out of this is that homu's case is really special. all her memories with madoka seems to be intact. madoka's mom however has a pretty vague memory of recognizing the name. and for tatsuya, i'm clueless why his image of madoka is that of a magical girl?! or is this has something to the campus note of madoka? * not the best screen grab, artifacts present T_T |
2011-05-14, 01:54 | Link #1134 |
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I don't think we were supposed to read any more into it than it being a simple case of childhood imagination with an extremely vague recollection of Madoka. I hesitate to say he really remembers her any more than Junko does, really; he just has childish imagination to go with it. Why he remembers her name and why he drew her in PM clothing is anybody's guess.
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2011-05-14, 02:06 | Link #1135 | |
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2011-05-14, 03:17 | Link #1136 | |
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2011-05-14, 09:52 | Link #1137 |
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Loved this. Instead of simply fan-wanking Madoka as a goddess, as many do, your comment really captures what is important about the ending: even though there should not be any trace of Madoka in the world anymore, a bit of her is still present, in Homura, and a bit in Tatsuya too. That's what is important, that in itself is THE miracle.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-05-14 at 10:26. |
2011-05-14, 10:21 | Link #1138 | |
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2011-05-14, 12:22 | Link #1139 | |
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Maybe Tatsuya could see Madoka briefly? In her PM attire and all that. Children are said to be more perceptive to immaterial spirits, and it could only soothe our hearts to think that she might interact with the world, if to this smallest extent (not counting her interaction with magical girls, of course).
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2011-05-14, 21:40 | Link #1140 | |||
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
Join Date: Jan 2009
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The meaning of her sacrifice, the message that brings and the protection it gives. The concept of that.....That is the truly divine thing about her. Quote:
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episode discussion, final episode thread, madoka magica |
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