2011-11-07, 18:37 | Link #462 | ||||||
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Not when I'm in the middle of it!! Quote:
Answering seriously though - it was in the movie thread a couple of days ago. But I really don't want to open this can of worms, so could we leave it at that? Quote:
Anyways, on page 9, there is a run down of Alto's actions towards Sheryl and Ranka, four incidents each. It's written as if Sheryl and Ranka are commenting on them, and they label each incident as a 'plus point' or a 'minus point'. The episode 22 scene is the minus point for Sheryl, with her comment that "Going with the flow in that situation is a minus point! Because, in some situations, sympathy/compassion/pity (同情) hurts." So basically, they're saying that 'sympathy' is how Sheryl sees it. A bit later in the mook, however, on p.45, the PASH! writers do note that "there could have been some feelings of sympathy/compassion" mixed in. But they also regard it as the high point in their relationship, because it's here that Alto and Sheryl completely understand each other. [On the other hand, they screwed up the 'relationship path chart' here, putting the episode 23 scene before the episode 22 one in the relationship timeline. So yeah, take of it what you will. The PASH! articles are mostly just a fun read to me, although they do raise interesting points for considerations. The interviews are far more informative.] ===== Quote:
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Last edited by karice67; 2011-11-08 at 17:56. |
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2011-11-07, 19:15 | Link #463 | |||
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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Uh oh, now cheesie knows who to consider entry in my every-growing virtual harem
You know you are secretly delighted! Quote:
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I was jumping in joy. Oh yes. Quote:
- Tak
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2011-11-07, 22:29 | Link #464 | ||
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Why be just another member of someone else's harem when I can be the master of my own (reverse) harem? And in real life to boot, rather than virtual Only if everyone else will eat them Quote:
Now you've got me curious...
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2011-11-08, 05:22 | Link #465 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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So, no, the comparison doesn't work. Shepard had the same amount of information about his opponents, regardless of being a Renegade or Paragon. He still chose to be a complete douche when being a Renegade. Alto acts the way he does, because he doesn't have all the information. And it doesn't work on another level, too. Being a Renegade essentially is about going the most convenient and ruthless route, while being a Paragon is trying to find a more diplomatic and nuanced approach. The problem is, Alto was not really presented with much of a choice in that regard. The only real choice offered to him was about either leaving Frontier with the Quarter crew to go after Ranka or staying on Frontier and with Sheryl. Can you say with a straight face that staying with Sheryl is the Renegade choice? Works for me, then.
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2011-11-08, 13:06 | Link #466 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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I might suggest sleeping with her might be a Renegade option. Still, I'm not suggesting I disagree with your assessment of him, I actually agree with it, I just throw stuff around. He's kinda nuanced and doesn't express himself much. Partially because I'm not sure he knows how to express himself much. Spent too much time pretending to be a girl, and that I think is where he gets his real character development. I kinda liked him later because he was rather flawed for the hero, and not in any typical sense. Heroes generally know who they are and what they do. Alto most of the time never seemed to. Really, he stayed with Sheryl because Sheryl was important to him and I think she's a lot of how he learned to express himself, because she could express herself even though she acted from time to time, and she prodded him to express himself plenty of times. Of that scene though, yeah, he probably did, but I don't think he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. She was upset and depressed, so that could be construed as taking advantage of her (assuming he did) even if she did offer. She just needed comforting, so probably a hug and suggesting she get some sleep might be a thought. Of course, it could have quickly gotten complicated for poor, POOR Alto if she started heating things up herself, and if that happened, truly we would all feel great sympathy for poor, poor Alto. Yeah. Okay, speaking as a guy I can say it would be really, really hard to say no in that situation. Seriously, if he did, I don't think I would call him a jerk for it, I'd call him a GUY for it, but maybe he could have put up a little resistance for the sake of a deeply upset woman, but yes, it is actually really pretty hard when the rest of the circumstances are "You are alone with a smoking hot woman your age who wants you." Now I've rambled on again. Anyway, to me that's about how I think he should have done it. Realistically though, if Sheryl did get laid I really doubt she regretted it at all. There is a romantic notion there though that if Alto didn't feel completely comfortable of then he really probably shouldn't have, and if that were the case, then Sheryl might feel a little betrayed. Thus, I may suggest that the real moral quandary here is actually in Alto potentially betraying his own feelings. Either he did so with the right feelings, or he did so because he didn't want to hurt Sheryl's feelings by saying no. We can be pretty sure of Sheryl's feelings on this matter. Wow, okay, this is complicated. Now I'm not sure about this, maybe Alto was doomed. I think putting it short he just needed to be honest with her about his feelings, see what her real feelings were, and then go from there. No accounting for teenagers though. Ramble complete, going for lunch. |
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2011-11-08, 14:24 | Link #467 |
A blast from the past
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Fortaleza-CE, Brazil
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Yeah, I would have had a hard time doing anything other than comforting her in whatever way I could at that time, myself. And yes, my mind does veer towards sex more often than most japanese folks, I'd gather (hmm, maybe not - but I'm damn sure I do act more on it, IRL).
What I'm trying to say is: there is no "taking advantage of" in that situation, at least in my mind's eye. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion, of course.
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2011-11-09, 17:43 | Link #469 | |
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I'm just going to come out and say this, they both needed comforting. Both of them were going through some pretty hard and uncertain times, as was all of Frontier. Would I be a bastard to suggest the double standard at work here? I don't know, but I would be curious to know who would get the blame if their genders were reversed. Now I may be committing political suicide here for suggesting this in particular, but the scene does seem to suggest that sex was Sheryl's idea, so perhaps it could be argued that she has more to blame. Or I just fail at life, which I'm told is often the case. I guess they could have picked a happier time for that too but that's being picky given the circumstances. |
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2011-11-09, 18:03 | Link #471 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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That probably came out a little harsher than intended, due to lack of editing. I don't mean to blame anyone, just pointing out that if you wanted to assign blame well... there's something. But there's always something. I think all I'm going to come away with from that rambling circling rant of mine is that trying to pin blame on someone in this case is just a witch hunt.
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2011-11-09, 18:39 | Link #472 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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It might be interesting to consider, however, if there is something that either Alto or Sheryl (or even both) might regret about how the night played out, especially considering the line from your post that I've bolded. But I've got another translation to do, so that should be it from me...at least for now.
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2011-11-09, 18:51 | Link #473 | ||
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2011-11-09, 19:58 | Link #475 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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Though I highly doubt they regretted it, since I believe they both needed mutual comforting at the moment, and certainly did enjoy the days that ensued. Was regretting an option? Certainly! Though that really depended on what Alto was going to say to Sheryl in episode 24, and the little details made it an extremely powerful scene (and a hint in a certain direction). Nonetheless, whether he professed his love or not at the time, it would have, like Sheryl said, kill her concentration on what she needed to do. - Tak
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Last edited by Tak; 2011-11-09 at 20:18. |
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2011-11-09, 20:53 | Link #477 | |
Catholic = Cat addiction?
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: MURICA!!
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- Tak
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2011-11-09, 20:54 | Link #478 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Let me try to make what I'm getting at a bit clearer.
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I will admit that Sheryl's pov is a lot easier to figure out - hell, it's even represented in the show itself, in both 22 and 23. But I'm still puzzling out Alto's myself.
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