2012-01-29, 04:36 | Link #3005 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
|
If Yuna is just one of five representatives, then where is the elected assembly and the other 4 representatives when he make that stupid decision like saying Djibril is not in ORB through national broadcast? Did he sneak on them? If so, how can he prepared and executed national (or international) broadcast? If those other men-in-power actually approved of what he has done (which contrary to the high-ranking military officers), then ORB’s government is truly messed-up or just poorly written. They can’t even control a single representative from blabbering nonsense to the international world while (he said that he was) representing ORB (the whole country).
__________________
|
2012-01-29, 05:01 | Link #3007 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
|
Yup, That is also the point of my first post a page ago, that ORB is so messed-up the government allowed or gave a guy such as Yuna opportunities to make the most important decisions while representing the whole country which also the writer's fault since he/she failed to give us a stable, just, and orderly government that represent the long prosperity and advancement in ORB.
__________________
|
2012-01-29, 05:13 | Link #3008 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
|
|
2012-01-29, 07:07 | Link #3009 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
|
Quote:
Okay, I’m not gonna go deeper into this matter since the anime plot only touched that far. Like I said before, the script is flawed when it deals with governmental issues and details.
__________________
|
|
2012-01-29, 07:35 | Link #3010 | ||||||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And it seems to me like you've misunderstood a few details. |
||||||
2012-01-29, 07:53 | Link #3011 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 41
|
Hey bud just gonna dissect some of your recent posts.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Just a question are you having problem with stability or ORB leadership breaking izumi ideals of neutrality? Quote:
Quote:
A point ive been saying for years and glad im not the only one. Last edited by winter45; 2012-01-29 at 08:11. Reason: added more |
|||||||
2012-01-29, 08:44 | Link #3012 | ||||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It did. One example, if Cagalli was in ORB sooner, she could smack Yuna before (or just after) he made those ridiculous Djibril’s-not-here announcement, capture that mofo, fix things up with another announcement and relieve ORB from all those foolishness caused by Yuna. Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, I don’t exactly remember Destiny episode-by-episode, so you’re welcomed to mentioned the details that I forget and correct me if I make mistakes. Quote:
and my country with Pancasila. I enjoy this argument, btw.
__________________
Last edited by Obelisk ze Tormentor; 2012-01-29 at 08:58. |
||||||
2012-01-29, 09:04 | Link #3013 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 41
|
@Obelisk ze Tormentor
Fair enough. My knowledge to your questions is rusty at best so unfortunately i cannot provide accurate answers. Even tho your statement "I enjoy this argument, btw." originally was directed at monster before editing i would like to say: my replies weren't arguments at all but just to assist in removing the rough edges of your points. |
2012-01-29, 15:54 | Link #3014 | |||||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for whether the situation would be better had Cagalli returned sooner, that would depend on her state of mind. It's certain, however, that the Cagalli who was kidnapped would not do any better had Kira just returned her like that. She would've just gone on with the marriage with Yuna. Quote:
Quote:
And that's the problem with your argument. You're so fixated on Yuna that you ignore the whole Seiran family and other people within Orb that share the same viewpoint. Look at the United States, where we have Republicans and Democrats and other political parties. Just because these parties may differ in certain agendas, it doesn't mean the government is deteriorating. And one "foolish" senator/president/representative is not going to undue the fact that the United States is quite a strong country overnight. In other words, in an attempt to show that SEED and Destiny tend to simplify certain real-life issues (which they do, as this is a fictional story), you took it to the extreme by oversimplifying the situation with Orb's government. And then you "turn around" and find fault with its oversimplification when it's your analysis of it that is oversimplified. Like I said, the script may not be perfect (but then, most aren't), but they're not as bad as you're making it out to be. And it's certainly not flawed simply because someone like Yuna has some power in a fictional country. |
|||||
2012-01-29, 17:43 | Link #3015 | |||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I’m not even trying to oversimplify things. That’s what was shown in the show without including other media. First, we knew that ORB is powerful country with techno advancement. Rich & prosper, of course. It’s a (supposedly) neutral country (kinda like Switzerland). They say Cagalli is the leader of ORB, but we never given any clue of how much power/authority does she has compared to Prime Minister Unato Seiran and other members of noble families. Then, there’s Yuna who is the son of Unato and Cagalli’s fiancee. What does that make him in the chain of command? It’s not very clear. And from there, our problem begins in defining ORB government and Cagalli's capacity as a leader. You apparently see it as a messed-up government due to the progress of the plot/story and that it’s intentional and therefore OK. On the other hand, I view it as not a very good writing and a lacking script which function is to provide Cagalli, Shinn, Athrun, Kira, etc with internal conflict with the enemies. That makes ORB issues not a very good plot device. If we can’t agree on this, let’s just say we agree to disagree.
__________________
|
|||||
2012-01-29, 18:03 | Link #3016 | ||||||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
It just seems to me that, for you, if a situation isn't the way you think it should be, it must be lacking or flawed. |
||||||
2012-01-30, 00:09 | Link #3017 | |||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
|
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, that will get ugly. By the time the evidence of Djibril-is-in-ORB came, at least Cagalli can immediately give order to capture Djibril and at the same time reveal the traitor family while explaining the situation properly to Durandal’s faction. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Yuna is a confusing character. We don’t know his rank and his actual authority. Yes, he was considered as Cagalli’s (Chief Representative) husband. Then again, you don’t see Michelle Obama leading a Navy fleet or ordering generals and admirals do you? No, there’s one example in Destiny where situation turned the way I like it but I still blame the script for poor execution. That would be Lacus & co survived the night ambush from a group of SWAT-like coordinators. I mean, how come they pull it off almost without a scratch when the only ones who have weapons at that time are Murrue & Andrew against a trained assassin coordinator group with auto-machine guns, silencers, bulletproof vests and night-scopes? How stupid can those assassins be? Like I said, I like the results that none of my fave charas are hurt but it’s still poorly written.
__________________
|
|||||
2012-01-30, 00:49 | Link #3018 | ||||||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
So it goes back to whether there are enough people in the government who is against the alliance. Even Uzumi had his supporters. So, no, Cagalli alone can't oppose the alliance if the majority of the government decided on it. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
||||||
2012-01-30, 21:52 | Link #3019 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: United States
|
Well you guys are having quite discussion that I don't want to be dragged into lol.
So, I'm going to change the subject. After watching Gundam Seed Destiny for the 3rd time Shin Asuka isn't a a very appealing character (at least to me). During one of Shinn's "sad moments" it was really difficult to cry with him internally or sympathize. Unlike Kira, Athrun, Cagalli, Lacus, and the other characters "sad moments" in the Gundan Seed and Destiny it was far easier to sympathize with them in their grievances. However, in Shinn's case all I can see is a mouthy, ungrateful, impulsive, and vengeful brat. He's definitely not suited for being a soldier. Unfortunately, that perspective has not changed even after I watched the series for the 3rd. Hilariously enough, I only liked him in episode 50... when it was all over. (Bad characterization I guess). Although I agree with you guys that the anime script is flawed when it deals with the governments like ORB. For example the lack of providing reasonable background. Yunas Seiran had backing from his father and their faction in ORB, not to mention the EA. Cagalli's father had quite the backbone, if he could withstand pressure from EA and ZAFT. I'm guessing all the reasonable voices in ORB died when they blew up the mass driver in Gundam Seed. P.S. I always noticed this everytime I re-watch Gundam Seed Destiny, but they have recycled quite a few scenes from Gundam Seed. Also, I hate it how nobody told Shinn that he killed Captain Todaka, I really wanted to see his reaction and remorse. Oh well... it was nostalgic to watch this series again.
__________________
Last edited by Hiro Hayase; 2012-01-30 at 22:57. |
Tags |
mecha, seed it and weep |
Thread Tools | |
|
|