2013-02-07, 00:15 | Link #5841 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Kira distracted + unwilling to kill + Shinn exploiting these weaknesses = Kira's loss Nothing dirty about it, its war, plan your moves with what you know, then win/whatever you are trying to accomplish EDIT: not bashing you or anything offensive, if i came across as such then sorry |
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2013-02-07, 00:46 | Link #5842 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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There's no going around the fact that Kira lost that battle while Shinn successfully utilized his mobile suit. But that's all it was.
I think the only problem with the Freedom vs Impulse fight is when people try to use it to make some kind of "x is more powerful than y" type of statement. Of course, that's just the usual reaction to these types of stories. |
2013-02-07, 05:06 | Link #5843 | ||
Praise the sun!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sweden
Age: 34
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Then again, one can argue that Kira is superior to Shinn in piloting (Which sort of gets thrown in your face when Kira grabs the Destiny's AS-sword during the Orb siege) lol Quote:
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2013-02-07, 05:51 | Link #5844 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Simply put... Shinn won and Kira did not give his best effort. This can't be argued. It's the only tangible things we can take from the fight. There's the Ultimatum. There should be no argument/debate further from that...dea-ded.
That had to be his worst performance/effort since he first piloted the Strike. |
2013-02-07, 06:46 | Link #5845 |
PMS Avenger
Join Date: Sep 2009
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One would say that someone would give their best effort when their friends' lives or an entire nation are in danger. But it's Kira, I guess. It doesn't really need to make sense. It doesn't matter when we say he held back to preserve his awesome skills, or he was drunk at the time, or he had his helmet on backwards, or he used his feet instead of his hands, or he likes seeing his friends in danger(or the simpler "he held back because he held back"). The fact is, he just held back, that's it.
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2013-02-07, 15:17 | Link #5846 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Age: 41
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That was probably the episode on which I ranted the most about.
Not only, Kira's performance as a pilot was completely horrendous and BS story-wise, but also the lack of reaction from the Archangel was absolute hogwash too. If the point was about escaping to sea, hell they could have just used the rough terrain to cripple the entire ZAFT division in an area filled with all kinds of technically sophisticated boobytraps. It's because of that particular episode (and the ones involving Orb's forces abroad) that I still keep wondering why Fukuda wasted Natarle's character when she would still be of some use on the AA crew, especially on finding a way to solve the mess very swiftly with the right tactics. |
2013-02-07, 15:28 | Link #5847 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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2013-02-07, 15:33 | Link #5848 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2013-02-07, 15:40 | Link #5849 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Durandal has been a chess master all through the war until the end. Him and Rey groomed Shinn to become the one to fight Kira. It would honestly make a great deal of sense in this case if he built the impulse as a means to counter Kira if the assassination attempt failed (or it succeeded and Kira went on a rampage as a result). It gave a VERY specific advantage to Shinn in a fight against Kira that other mobile suits would've failed from not having. He put off giving Shinn the Destiny since Shinn would need that advantage more in a fight against Kira and the Freedom than just having raw power.
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2013-02-07, 15:53 | Link #5850 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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(That why they say in enemy to answer Athrun for why they didn't fight back.) Edit: Don't forget that they have Kira who could easily farm grunts/battleships >>> he just need to stop running away/wasting time and just fight Shin > and ZAFT army will be destroyed the second Impulse is down. (But then they will be officially at war with them and that why it's easier "for long run" to just run away for for now without attacking them.) |
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2013-02-07, 16:13 | Link #5851 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2013-02-07, 16:32 | Link #5852 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 37
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If Durandal had a backup plan to kill Lacus if she refused to cooperate with his plan AND have a body double to take her place, then yes, he most certainly expected to have Freedom interfering that far ahead. Especially when you consider the fact that he tried to have Kira killed ahead of time by using Canard Pars against him.
He had everything planned out from the start.
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2013-02-07, 16:38 | Link #5853 |
Corrupted fool
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I'm everywhere
Age: 34
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Well, at least in Delta Astray we learn that he is responsible for sending Canard on his journey to kill Kira. And Canard's story happens in late SEED. Also, in one of the new scenes from Special Edition Durandal predicts Kira's involvement in the war and already plans to use Shinn to kill him. I don't know if Impulse was made for this but Destiny Astray, set before Destiny's start, shows its first presentation and how it was made so that the Minerva could easily assist the pilot in combat.
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2013-02-07, 16:44 | Link #5854 | ||||
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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In any case, the fact that nuclear weapons are usable now puts a very large hole into Kira's reasons for keeping it s secret. Quote:
And even if it is their logic, it still doesn't make any sense for the reasons I've already stated (e.g. Their only possible pro out of it was completely counter-productive). Thus, I call BS on it. Quote:
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2013-02-07, 19:00 | Link #5855 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Age: 41
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I dunno. Mines, missile pods activated to trigger upon enemies approaching with heat signatures not matching friendly signatures, etc. The Archangel was moving through a canyon and it was quite a perfect place to set up an ambush while escaping after all.
That's part of why I was furious Natarle being killed considering Fukuda already knew about making a sequel. In that European adventure, the Archangel went in there with zero tactical sense on how to deal with those various situations. Even if it's not about killing the most enemies possible, at least crippling enough of them to force the enemy to abandon pursuit would have been nice. |
2013-02-08, 01:38 | Link #5856 | |||||||||
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Because you're ignoring the EA's character every time you say that they won't bother with Orb even if Orb refused to join them. I think the Archangel wasn't expecting a pursuit. The EA and ZAFT are still at war and the Archangel was going back to Orb. |
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2013-02-08, 01:58 | Link #5857 | ||
Goat Herder
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 37
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Look, I get you feel this compulsion to defend even the worst parts of the SEED franchise, but this is getting ridiculous. He was expecting the Freedom or another mobile suit to be there. That's why he sent a bunch of bloody ASH mobile suits to make sure they complete their mission.
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2013-02-08, 02:13 | Link #5858 | ||
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2013-02-08, 02:23 | Link #5859 |
Goat Herder
Author
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 37
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If you're going to split hairs, you wouldn't want to send anything other than the Providence after the Freedom, but that's the fault of the Fukuda and Morosawa making Kira invincible. Nevertheless, my point still stands: Durandal planned ahead to deal with both Kira and Lacus and it's certainly plausible that he designed the Impulse to destroy the Freedom if it had to become a public matter.
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2013-02-08, 02:50 | Link #5860 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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I mean, what if they meet in a battle where Freedom was not trying to retreat? Or what if they meet after Lacus was killed, where it's conceivable that Kira would be less likely to not kill? Is Durandal going to design a mobile suit just to counter one possible Kira? Besides, it's not like the Impulse's design is the only way to defeat the Freedom. So even if it's plausible, it's still more likely that the Impulse's design is exactly what Durandal said it was: inspired from the Strike (but taken to the next level, of course). |
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mecha, seed it and weep |
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