2014-01-24, 16:28 | Link #33861 | |
The True Culprit
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Re:GuestSpeaker; Yea I don't believe Yasu commited any crimes for a damn second. If she was intended to be, Ryukishi botched it up since Yasu is both too meek to be proactive in her own daily life AND has a demonstratable complex for taking the blame for everything and constantly lying to support her imaginary narratives, her confessions can never really be worth much of anything.
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2014-01-25, 11:52 | Link #33862 | |
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We can't really get in her mind and probably she doesn't know herself what would have happened if the adults hadn't solved the epitaph but if you've the belief she wouldn't have managed to kill even if she had reached the point in which she pointed a gun at someone, it gets way easier to forgive someone with a 'you were really angry and you thought of doing something really terrible but deep down you're a good person and wouldn't do it'. And that, given the situation we're in, is the easiest way to forgive her because it can't be disproved. As long as one hasn't killed anyone even if he claims he wanted to do it and had everything ready to do it, no one can prove he would have the determination to get through it. To prove it you've to shoot the bullet, not just to grab the gun. Of course this is also a matter of inner faith in that person. The trick ending represents exactly this. Ange knows that Amakusa and Kuwabata could have been set up to kill her and doesn't believe they would hesitate in killing her but actually, as long as they didn't push the trigger, she couldn't be sure they were out to kill her. In short, to use a theme Umineko likes quite a bit, it's all a matter of having love. Keep in mind Battler loves Yasu so, even if she had killed everyone, he would end up telling himself she had a legittimate reason, that she was cornered, that it was all his fault, that 'insert random reason that would make sense for him'. Of course if she had killed someone it would be more troublesome for him to make up excuses but there's plenty of people who do it because, in a way, love also makes you blind. Maria is an example of this when she keeps on justifying Rosa. But as long as Yasu didn't really kill anyone Battler can conveniently tell himself that in the end she wouldn't have done it and wave it all away with a 'you walked till the rope of a cliff but didn't jump off of it'. For a reader the matter is different though as he surely isn't as emotionally involved as him and he can believe that, given the chance she would have jumped off of it or decide that just by walking till the cliff, she's guilty. In short the decision becomes very personal and influenced by what you think about the person involved. |
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2014-01-25, 13:01 | Link #33863 |
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I heard that the umineko manga "partially shows" the "single truth". Interestingly enough, I also heard that this truth shown would contain parts of ep 7 tea party.
Now I remember someone was reading the manga on this forum, and would like to ask if this was just false information or something that actually happened. I'm quite interested as it would further back up the theory I personally find most plausible about prime. |
2014-01-25, 16:12 | Link #33865 | |
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2014-01-26, 02:42 | Link #33866 | ||
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That's it, I guess? I feel somehow empty, even though I believed that is somewhat what happened during the prime. At least it is in my opinion the truth that made most sense, and it would had been very disappointing if the truth would had been something totally different. Now we'll just wait until someone finds some innovative loophole and denies this. Although I don't know if people even consider the manga canon. Quote:
Now if we suppose Yasu isn't the culprit and the real killer is someone else (at least Ryu seems to agree with me, considering the shocking manga revelation), this is what literally is happening: the public opinion is that "Beatrice=Yasu=Culprit", even though s/he is just blamed wrongly because message bottles he sent. Wouldn't this mean that yasu is carrying the burdens of the real culprit, and the entire umineko being a cover-up with Yasu actually acting as "false culprit"? Naming yourself as the killer, even if in made up confessions, would probably be enough to take the blame. |
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2014-01-26, 06:05 | Link #33867 |
The True Culprit
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Dormin beat me to it. Beatrice is an existence that accepts the blame of all tragedies on the island, and is the face Yasu most strongly identifies with. She martyrs herself as a villain to protect the nobility of the Ushiromiya family, and allow them to be remembered for their potential heroism and not for their ugliest aspects.
The fact that she didn't succeed at this only compounds her tragedy.
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2014-01-26, 07:43 | Link #33868 |
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I guess I understand where you're coming from, but Beatrice was created before the incident, and was named the culprit because she was the culprit until her heart was to be exposed.
If Yasu threw the bottles after the incident, maybe I'd agree, but to me, it seems more like Yasu's attempt to be understood (by especially Battler), than actually taking the blame. Maybe Meta-Beatrice, but even she begs for Battler to find the truth, and not accept the Fantasy she set up. Which again, was created pre-incident (Well, 2 of her gamebaords, at least). |
2014-01-26, 09:36 | Link #33869 |
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My apologies to everyone else. But I've come up with another theory(Or rather, another one of my wacky ways to try to attack the 'established truth'). The established truth I want to attack this time is Game 6's Logic Error..... Or No.....
Is it even an error at at all? It was said that at the "time of the logic error" that the doors were sealed. And while it may be true that Meta Erika would know when the seals would be broken, Physical Erika has no way of knowing this fact Specifically "At the time of the Logic Error" has to logically be the same time that Furudo Erika's trapped in the bathroom. During that time, Physical Erika can't acknowledge anything. She doesn't even have the Detective's Authority. Since Furudo Erika committed the murders by some form of stabbing, not even the bag could have completely muffled those voices. The others who were hiding in the two rooms over now had a firm understanding that something was wrong. One of them tore the seal, met Battler at the Guest Room and changed places with him. No need for Yasu, no need for switching genders. Just by the fact that Erika was sealed in a temporary closed room(the bathroom), look how far Alpha's reasoning took him. What does everyone think? |
2014-01-26, 10:05 | Link #33871 | |
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We have confirmed that the seals to the guest room are UNDAMAGED. Since the time Lady Erika confirmed Battler's existence, this closed room has been PRESERVED. This refers to the initial discovery of Battler's corpse, IE: When Physical Erika first walked through the halls to the Guest Room. To put it stupidly simple: As Erika said, during that time in the bathroom, the guarantee that no one was in the bedroom dissipated. However, that wasn't the only guarantee that dissipated. The guarantee for the seals(and pretty much anything else really) was also dissipated in that time span where Physical Erika couldn't observe what was happening. |
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2014-01-26, 13:47 | Link #33873 | ||
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Beatrice, or better the games, were created to try and have Battler understand her. However when in Prime everything backfired Yasu somehow survived and sealed the truth by spreading the tales. In this way she: - helped to generate the catbox in which Beatrice was alive and the truth was hidden - could hope someone else would discover the truth about herself I don't think she covered up everything using Beatrice purely out of the kindness of her heart, though she likely feel responsible and that's her way to deal with it. Quote:
Also, bits of Eva's diary were supposed to be visible in the VN as well but after Ryukishi made invisible a part of it. I guess with the manga he decided to let people see it again. |
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2014-01-26, 16:09 | Link #33874 | |
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I'm simply contending that Physical Erika has no actual way of knowing this. And/or the "time of the logic error" doesn't get clearly defined enough. As a part of Beato's solution, Kanon escapes from the Cousins's closed room(or as Erika later defined: that Kanon was never actually in it) and was the one to trade places with Battler. This was possible not only for Kanon, but literally for anyone and everyone else. For all Erika knows, NO ONE is in the two rooms. If this were in the Meta-World, I'd like to ask the Witch of Truth to repeat it: That the Logic Error is at the same time as she was trapped. |
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2014-01-26, 21:07 | Link #33877 | ||
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I think Beato defined closed rooms in Ep 3 but in Ep 6 is also confirmed in red. Quote:
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2014-01-27, 08:02 | Link #33878 |
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I think "Every closed room is indeed perfectly sealed" is a fundamental, unbreakable rule of Beatrice's games anyway. She uses magic, not tricks.
In any case though, remember that the ep6 logic error has to be about the heart of the game. That means some silly wording trick just won't cut it. |
2014-01-27, 10:10 | Link #33879 |
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Well, if we assume Battler (or Kanon) is a really freaking accurate guy when it comes to throwing things, couldn't he walk out of the room while holding the chain, throw it into the air to make it land perfectly to fit into whatever makes the chain lock while closing the door. Or if Kanon was better suited for it, he could have tried it instead after having swapped with Battler.
I reckon that would satisfy all the conditions of Battler getting out? It's a pretty crazy idea though. Some simple red like "gravity is not sufficient to lock the chain" would easily tear it apart. That was the only little reasoning I made myself, and I honestly thought it was at least okay, but was saddened they didn't ball the idea at all. Don't want too many point in the same post, but wasn't killing all those corpses completely unnecessary? It was confirmed in red that everyone else is in the room next to the one with five people in it, so wouldn't that include the people that pretended to be dead, making it impossible for them to have actually been pretending to be dead? Last edited by theforgot3n1; 2014-01-27 at 11:28. |
2014-01-27, 12:02 | Link #33880 | |
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