2014-03-18, 01:49 | Link #2181 |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Because we're not fooled by your 'logic'. Saying that Kamijou is the same as Accelerator for killing the clones again is as absurd as saying because you live someone else died as a result because you ate food that could have saved him even though you're hungry.
Perhaps not the best of analogy, but the point is Kamijou didn't kill Elise, he didn't kill the clones. It is unfortunate that the world they live in those things happened but it was definitely not because of him. At the same time I keep asking, how selfish do you actually think the characters are to ask someone else to sacrifice for them? They weren't there in that world to make that call, and even if they were, how many would actually do it? |
2014-03-18, 02:00 | Link #2182 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
|
^ i never tried to fool others XD
i was curious about how they will act towards him and gaved reasons why they would blame him (maybe hate)... i think this fits: touma and a innocent girl are on a cliff, before NT9 touma would jump and save the girl (utopia world), after NT9 touma pushes the girl (utopia) into her death because he wants to live..... makes this comparison sense?? (i dont say i would do something different , im sure i would kick the girl too (why girl? 87% of the cast are ones)) |
2014-03-18, 02:09 | Link #2183 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Actually, even that is false because I forgot the most important thing- Kamijou wasn't the one who decided which world it would be, it was Othinus who made the final decision. |
|
2014-03-18, 03:22 | Link #2186 |
That one guy
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
But there was never an ideal. Will herself had said that Touma never fought for moral reasons nor for an idealstic thought. He fought because he believed wht he fought for was right at the time. It was a case to case basis that didn't link to each other strictly linking to one single school of thought.
|
2014-03-18, 03:51 | Link #2188 |
Comrade Ferret
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The darkest corner with the best view...
|
You wanna get technical here, then his ideal is to just live a normal life.
What he wants when he saves people is an ending in which everyone is smiling. There does exist a difference here.
__________________
|
2014-03-18, 03:55 | Link #2189 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
which means that he with "fighting against the world" have done what whitecloud said: is more than he become like archer...losing his ideal, even though not outright throw it out the window |
|||
2014-03-18, 11:32 | Link #2190 | |
I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
|
Quote:
@Levelseven To be clear, in version Omega none of Touma's friends were there. All of those people were different people who didn't remember the past. Because they didn't remember the past they were completely different people. This is why Touma tried to bring his friends back. They were just overwritten or "destroyed" by Othinus and Touma tried to bring them back. This is different from what you said earlier. One other thing: The distinction between how Touma acts now and beforehand you might be trying to make is this. Beforehand, Touma would do anything he could while surviving to save other people, now Touma will still do anything he can while not having to kill himself in order to save other people. His goals haven't changed. He never wanted other people to kill themselves to bring about a happy ending. This which has been constant in this series has always been the case. He thinks no one should kill themselves to save other people, and that it is completely unfair to make someone lose their life for other people's happiness. This is true because when you lose your life you are making other people happy but then they are also responsible for the fact that you lost your life and that leaves a bitter aftertaste in their mouths. His ideals didn't change one bit, the only thing that changed at all was the fact that he decided to apply the same rule to himself. That's what the will of the Misaka network told him. She said that if he doesn't let other people kill themselves to save the day, he shouldn't kill himself either. That was what was true in the Sisters arc when he wouldn't let Mikoto fight Accelerator. Nothing has changed here. The only difference is the scale of the "positive benefit of the result of his actions." The big difference was that he stopped treating himself like trash, which was refreshing. This is why the Ultimate Smiling world wasn't a good world at all. To make it happen he had to kill himself. And if he killed himself, he wouldn't be smiling, and neither would anyone else if they found out. And Misaka Will could just tell everyone else about what happened using her data even if he didn't. The funniest thing here is that Touma only listened to her because he had nothing else to do with his time. Mikoto told him the same thing before, but because he had to save the day he didn't listen to her. I can see why he ignored her now. He has to break to listen to something like that. Last edited by dniv; 2014-03-18 at 11:48. |
|
2014-03-18, 11:59 | Link #2192 |
That one guy
Join Date: Nov 2011
|
I wonder why is it that of all shounen heroes, I find Touma to be the most sincere and believable in all of his heroics. Even more so when he doesn't see what he does as heroics but instead as things any person in his position would have done.
NT9 changed him in ways that began to make him think that he mattered as well. Everyone's happiness is not his only happiness. He has his own happiness to think about now as well instead of just taking on everyone else's misfortune. |
2014-03-18, 13:18 | Link #2193 | ||
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
In his last breath he didn't even tell her to bring back the old world or to take away the Utopia, it was she who decided that this is the world that she want to be in. Quote:
Kamijou hasn't given up on anything, and like what Dniv said, he's just expanding it to include himself, which means it's making his impossible dream even harder which is the opposite of Archer. Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2014-03-18 at 13:51. |
||
2014-03-19, 00:56 | Link #2194 | |
Not A Loli-con....
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Beyond the looking glass
|
Quote:
In a more serious anime, Gundam Seed. Why did Kira fight so hard? In the beginning he just wanted to protect his friends but why did he keep fighting and trying to save everything? while I liked the show It seemed like there were many ways around what happened instead of the protagonist saving the world and sticking to his sense of justice.
__________________
|
|
2014-03-19, 01:12 | Link #2195 | ||
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
Quote:
Personally the only one I keep thinking of when I ask myself that question is Shirou, because my first impression of him was so bad from the original F/SN Anime... |
||
2014-03-19, 05:00 | Link #2196 | |
Not A Loli-con....
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Beyond the looking glass
|
Quote:
I'm looking forward to see Touma's growth in the coming novels to see what kind of hero he becomes and growth he goes through. He was described as a little girl who had become ancient but still had a young body (reminds me of Evangeline from Negima) so I'm hoping for some old man talk. Perhaps something like a sage. But we will see.
__________________
|
|
2014-03-19, 06:29 | Link #2197 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
|
Quote:
i think his memorys are more like a dream, you know stuff happened but not exactly what happened, afterall this would be the only way to survive such a trauma and i highly doubt that he could ever return to his old life if he really aged and growed into such a 'old-man mentallity'.... it wouldnt fit into the setting of toaru... |
|
2014-03-19, 21:18 | Link #2198 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
|
I wish Touma would become a terrorist or some sort of antagonist and will chose to save and stayed with Othinus. After all she has been with him for the longest period of time. And even though she only wanted his demise at the very least she stayed with him till the very end of every version and watch him. And even Kamijou knows her best the same also can be implied that she knows him best too.
__________________
|
2014-03-19, 22:55 | Link #2199 |
The Fearless
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: "United" States
|
Well Othinus's whole goal was to find somebody that understood her, So all her actions up to now may have been selfish but besides that, As said in the 9th Volume
|“Was there really someone who would conveniently understand me in my original world?” She had no answer to that question.| It took her a some time but she final found somebody to understand her, but in (imo) order for somebody to understand her they must know how she feels so we can conclude that Touma will stay with her for awhile. (Well that's my best answer to give atm)
__________________
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|