2016-12-20, 19:24 | Link #2741 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 47
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Scale can effect structure drastically, be it engineering or political. Not only when you start increasing the number of people by several factor but also the diversity of those people and their conflicting needs and goals as you not only increase in numbers but also area they populate.
The scale of the United States should not be underestimated when one thinks about a political system. The United States is roughly the land mass of the continent of Europe. with about as diverse a region of climates, terrain, and resources. All scattered about in different states and regions. People living in Iowa will have some different needs than those living in Delaware or California or even Utah. Some places have entirely different wants and desired for resources depending on climate. It gets pretty cold in Vermont in the winter, but not at all in Hawaii and winter along the coastal regions of California is very mild compared to Montana. The lowest it gets around here is just below the freezing point of water and that lasts for maybe a month during the nights, while the rest of the time it is around 10 degrees Celsius. By February it would be like Spring anywhere else in the country, and between late April and now-a-days early November it is like Summer with it wavering depending on the weather patterns in October and November between Summer and Fall. There is almost no winter really as it snows maybe once every 11 years here and has only stuck to the ground with a centimeter or so of snow once in the last 40 years. The wants of a Californian is going to be different than an Iowan or a Texan. This is magnified by the numbers of urban population centers and the distances of rural areas between them and the micro-cultures that have developed over the centuries in some areas verse others, as well as the cultures of some industry towns that have fractured as the industries collapse with no replacements. So Switzerland's effectiveness probably would not work on a country as large and diverse as the United States because of the huge variations of needs, wants, and cultures within this country as well as the geographic and climatic diversity of the country.
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2016-12-20, 19:52 | Link #2743 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Not about the dis/avd of the other though you do need to understand that everyone is different. What works for one does not necessarily work for another. Though I was trying to be nice and point out the pointless arguments cause you guys are literally going in circles about it. And neither side is going to relent. I don't recall any of you taking this serious when Obama was elected or the previous presidents. |
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2016-12-21, 01:03 | Link #2744 | |||
Part-time misanthrope
Join Date: Mar 2007
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edit: I had planned to include a paragraph about the diversity of Switzerland but I came out somewhat poorly written so I left it out when I made this post. Certainly not as eloquent as Kakurin's post below. I do however agree with what he wrote. The more interesting question is what would happen if the US were to have more parties and have the president elected by the house and senate. Quote:
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Last edited by Eisdrache; 2016-12-21 at 01:49. |
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2016-12-21, 01:37 | Link #2745 |
大佐
Join Date: Jun 2013
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The needs, wants, climatic situation and cultures of the Italian-speaking Swiss living in Ticino south of the Alps is very different from the same situation for a Swiss-German-speaking Swiss living in Zurich or a French-speaking Swiss living in Geneva. If you talk about diversity you chose a bad example with Switzerland, which is the model country for diversity, something also showing in the political situation. The standard deviation of the party results across the different cantons of Switzerland is huge. In addition, nearly 25% of the people living in Switzerland are foreigners. What makes the Swiss political system work is their firm committment to compromise, something that's decidedly lacking in the US. That's got more to do with mentality rather than size.
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2016-12-21, 02:37 | Link #2746 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Ultimately, a political system "works" if its constituents accept it and its results. By that extremely low bar, the American system works... barely. But considering what the American accept, I'm half-convinced other, even sillier systems would work just as well. Like drawing lots. Or gladiatorial combat. Or straight up auctioning off the offices. Or Big Brother style reality TV with elimination. |
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2016-12-21, 02:52 | Link #2747 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Holy Terra
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"Pentagon memo on Trump's priorities doesn't mention Russia: report."
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2016-12-21, 02:56 | Link #2748 | ||
Provoker
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Dreamland
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Rp\Dp 2004 | 62,040,610 59,028,444 2008 | 59,948,323 69,498,516 2012 | 60,933,504 65,915,795 Basically it means that 59 mil disliked winner of 2004, 59 disliked winner of 2008, 60 disliked 2012. Popularity vote is just a formality and does not matter anyway. P.S. the question is why in 2012 the saint of democratic party (I swear I saw that comparison) gained less votes than 2008, considering that America became greater with him Quote:
Those who did not vote mostly do not care or just knowing that their vote won't affect the state and decided to ignore it. It is not that they all are hostile towards both candidates (though there are people like this too). And in the end we won't even know either. There are benefits working with Russia for sure
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2016-12-21, 04:21 | Link #2751 | |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 47
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Now just keep increasing the scale not only of types of peoples but also variety of conditions they live in, and you'll start to see why different people vote different ways in the United States to the point the relative small scale system will not work as intended. The scale is why compromise has been compromised for a long, long time in the United States. The United States has 50 or more Switerland equivalents that are the states (some states have as many or more sub-regions within regions as Switzerland) and then has to balance those with each other. The scale is far, far greater than you are giving it credit and that was one of the things the news media admitted they had failed at following the election. They hadn't bothered to take into account what a huge part of the country was even wanting when it came time to elect a President, much less what was happening in those regions. They more or less only interviewed people in New York and wrote off the rest of the country because that was what was within their budget.
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2016-12-21, 09:12 | Link #2754 |
Carbon
Join Date: Nov 2003
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I wonder if the Trump admin are going to extradite Fethullah Gulen
Erdogan has always blamed Fethullah Gulen for the failed coup, and now it seems they are linking the recent terrorist act to him to With recent Erdogan Putin Trump dynamics I wonder where this might head
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2016-12-21, 18:27 | Link #2755 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...0047c#comments
I know I supported this guy who said he would shoot me, but I didn't know he was literally going to shoot me! |
2016-12-21, 19:14 | Link #2757 |
My posts are frivolous
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 35
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National defence is one of the basic functions of government (the others being the enforcement of contracts and protecting third parties from spillover effects arising out of transactions that don't involve them), so having a large military in response to a high level of external threat is perfectly consistent with conservative principles. This is treated differently from using government to achieve other social functions, which conservatives are generally against.
There are arguments to be made that there is scope to trim a lot of fat in military spending relative to the level of external threats, and discussions should be had about where and how far the military is deployed, but increasing military size is not in itself conflicting with conservatism.
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2016-12-21, 22:22 | Link #2760 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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And the people who will suffer the most are all those rural white voters. Ironic and hilarious . Hey at least I'll probably get some lower taxes -_-;.
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