2008-03-18, 04:54 | Link #461 | |
Yandere for win :O
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Singapore
|
Quote:
"Since TBC" is a bit misleading as druids were nowhere among the top. It was only until the introduction of arena water in Season 2 did people realise "Hey druids can run away and drink easily!" and the new latest flavour of the month teams were born. Well, druids are still rock bottom in 5v5 healing (together with good old resto shamans). Euro Comps may have given some druid love in the 5v5 area but they are still wayyyyy behind priests and paladins in representation. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~ I've beaten the game in PvE, and I'm currently working towards a Gladiator title in 5v5s (you may also want to take note that I'm playing one of the worst represented classes in 5s, druids). I may be considered "hardcore" by some, but really who cares. I've been doing PvP since good old Tarren Mill / Southshore world PvP zerg days. Resilience is an overall better change to the PvP system. Before I say any more, I'll like to say that WoW's PvP system is a joke and is not balanced (in my opinion, nobody's forcing anyone to agree with me). In my opinion, WoW PvP was more of an afterthought that the developers slapped in after (initially) designing the game to be around PvE. Now having kept that in mind... Resilience brings much needed breathing space to certain classes which were on the receiving end (and not much they can do about it) of a <insert one or two-shot ability here>. I'm not particularly sure if an AP Pyro + Fireblast or a Rogue doing the usual stunlock from 100 ---> 0 on <insert squishy class here> is a ton of skill. With Resilience, one could actually get that breathing room to slam on their "oh crap" buttons for a life-saving grace or to stall time till teammates come to their aid. I had Naxx / AQ 40 / BWL gear on me in pre-TBC. Did you know that I could actually take frostbolts non-stop from a mage (with regrowth + rejuv + swiftmend) until the poor mage ran oom? (note : Mage was in Tier 2 / PvP gear) I could take a wailing from a hunter in PvP gear without going into bear form. I admit I had a good laugh but I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. Fast forward to TBC, I'm pretty sure I'd be going down faster than Anna Nicole Smith in a room of millionaires if I tried to do such a stunt in my tier 6 (and to be fair, let the dps-er wear PvE gear just like me).
__________________
|
|
2008-03-18, 06:24 | Link #462 | |
Did someone call a doctor
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 41
|
Quote:
They had to get past 'Team Conflag' to get to me though, which was rare, really rare. There wasn't a lot anyone could do against 4 destro locks chain assisting each other, "immo>sb>conflag and things would drop." 4 destro locks, 1 prot warrior, 1 or 2 priests, 1 or 2 paladins and a druid. Prot warrior and I held off an entire horde team at the Farm in AB once, true they were a pug, but two complete PvE (survival) spec'd players, holding off a group (and not dieing in the process) from cap'n was pretty comical. play an enhancement shaman now though, big time different kettle of fish, feel a lot like my priest did at the start of pvp. Its a lot like playing roulette...
__________________
|
|
2008-03-18, 08:29 | Link #463 | ||
WoW addict
|
Quote:
Gear gives a buffer. A tiny buffer. Frankly if you are bad then gear isnt going to help you much. Im not talking a jump from 69 greens and blue to full resiliency cap either. People who arent in the +2k bracket wouldnt understand. Resiliency is a terrible stat and has ruined PvP. Quote:
Now then... Can I get a Cowl of the Illidari Highlord to drop so i can complete my PvE gear set before Sunwell comes out? |
||
2008-03-18, 16:24 | Link #464 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
|
Quote:
|
|
2008-03-18, 18:35 | Link #465 |
Salt Levels Critical
Join Date: Oct 2007
|
Servers sure are acting funny after maintenance today. Managed to top the killing blow list in EotS despite spending over half the game stuck as a corpse on the ground. In fact my character had so much fun he decided to stick around 15 minutes after the battle ended.
Apparently transfers are working again but with the way things are today I'm not even gonna risk it. Having second thoughts about spending the money anyway, especially when it's so easy to level a character now. |
2008-03-18, 18:38 | Link #466 | |
Did someone call a doctor
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 41
|
Quote:
Whats it matter anyway, we've had our months of 'lording' it over them. So what if they can access it now, good on em if they can survive it. Hell if your server is like mine you'll have a progression thread anyway, and it'll be pretty obvious at a glance who 'earned' their epics and who didn't. Been playing since release, can even tell who sucks in the guilds that 'earned' the epics even casuals are better. Not like it matters anyway, because once again we'll all be on the same playing field running on that same treadmill again getting to lvl 80. And that cowl cracks me up every time I see it, so spiky. WTB; enhancement gear, any please. stupid plate shit. Heh RWB, transfering would be fine no matter how the servers are working. Maintenance, gotta love it.
__________________
|
|
2008-03-18, 18:41 | Link #467 |
I much prefer the 2d
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Frontier
Age: 32
|
i think orc shamans are best classes around ench ftw lol heal brake spells can immune fear and stuns lol raise resistances even if enh one of the best support classes always wanna have one on an instance lol
__________________
|
2008-03-19, 01:17 | Link #468 | |
Yandere for win :O
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Singapore
|
Quote:
I'm in the 2K+ brackets in 5v5 as a druid. Resto I may be but it doesn't change the fact that I'm playing one of the worst represented classes in the 5v5. Not saying that I'm some god of PvP but I'd like to think myself of a decent player who fits your bill of having played in the 2K+ area. Now, onto my opinion on resilience... I think it's not a perfect solution. There, I said it. HOWEVER, it is leagues better than pre-TBC. More survivability brings so much more to the table than..."AP PYRO + FIREBLAST MACRO OF SKILL OMG YOU ARE DEAD". This removes individual heroics by slamming on some cliche macro or combo of abilites to instant-gib or near instant-gib another player. This encourages more teamwork, identifying real threats to the team, hard-switching on focus targets (when applicable), etc. TLDR? : I believe Resilience prolongs battles which is good. I like duking it out longer, putting more strategies onto the table rather than one or two-shot gibs of doom during pre-TBC. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ Now, shockingly, I'll argue AGAINST resilience. Of course, once again, this is all my opinion...so nobody's forcing anyone to agree. =) Resilience scales down damage. But...Healing remains as strong as ever, no...even stronger as gear improves. Simple as that. No need for a long essay, it's really simple that healing is overpowering dps rather easily as PvP / arena gear upgrades itself. =) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ Overall? Resilience is still a good change to the pvp game, in my opinion...though not without the shortcoming as said above. Edit : Well, I guess another shortcoming is that it made certain specs lackluster (for example, AP / frost or fire mages)
__________________
Last edited by StarTouch; 2008-03-19 at 07:19. |
|
2008-03-19, 07:21 | Link #469 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
|
Quote:
Here's what I wrote on the official boards yesterday as a reply to the following topic: Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2008-03-19, 07:41 | Link #470 | |
Horoist
Join Date: Oct 2007
|
Quote:
The problem is most people are very petty and stupid about it, which tends to ruin the experience. I don't mind having a random fight with somebody, and dying to them. But when they, whatsicalled, 'teabag' you? or spew totally OOC garbage while doing so, then yeah. Not so fun. After years of MMOs, when it came time for me to WoW (I was adverse to it for a good while, but a friend bought it for me in the end) I started on a PvP server there with said friend, only to find the community worse than any I'd encountered before. Just as I suspected. I played my free month out, and then the day I was quitting, I saw a new server launch. Shadow Council. "RP server" I thought. Gave it a shot, and enjoyed the game a million times more. I'm not a 'heavy' RPer, but I enjoy interacting IC, so it was brilliant. Played on and off there for several years, been in top raid guilds both alliance and horde side. Done plenty of world PvP... until battlegrounds lowered the amount of permaflagged folk. Arenas post-BC increased the numbers again. People felt a bit safer with > 10k HP and 300 resilience. =p Had some fun with it, but still not much world PvP to speak of. But I still enjoyed random IC encounters. Never got involved in 'storylines' people ran, but I'd wander around cities and towns 'IC' and outside of raids or guild instance runs, would always reply to people in an IC fashion. Made it a lot more enjoyable all-round. Though tended to confuse the kids in guilds like 'hidden sound village' with names like "saysukay". >.< Anyway, I rant. |
|
2008-03-19, 08:57 | Link #471 | |
Yandere for win :O
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Singapore
|
Quote:
In season 1 where a lot of people weren't amazingly geared, you could dps through healing 50% of the time (sure, I'm pulling the 50% statistics out of thin air but point being, you can still outheal the dps or fail at doing so). Fast forward to season 3 where Flavour of the Month teams are out in full force, people are starting to realise while they still can dps through healing, it's a lot harder than in the past...and have changed this around to work on mana drain / pressuring. When teams are changing up to do mana drain / pressuring, it tells you that DPS can't quite catch to the level of healing that is being dished out and thus, have to go about mana draining the healers to obviously score the easier chance of winning. 2) I don't know much about priests but I believe that goes for virtually every healer. A quick glance through the top teams in every BG will tell you that MS is always present in some form. If another class gets MS, it's as threatening to you as it is to me as a healer. If you mean by those dps-ers with MS humping the healer, priests aren't the exception. Paladin's can't do anything useful if a rogue is hounding them. They may run away but...you aren't healing that teammate who's dying if you're running. If they choose to bubble to heal, they are now vulnerable after it dies down (or is removed via Mass Dispel). Shamans are virtually as bad, perhaps even worse. You stand there, take a beating, pray that your teammates come to your rescue before you drop dead. Even the "overpowered" druids are no exception, you slam melee dps into their face and they're forced to turtle up in bear form or cheetah away (sure can bet that those awesome 200 lifebloom ticks can't really save someone below 50%, even worse if there's MS up). Or, if you want to really kill a druid, stick double melee dps onto the druid full-time (preferably a Warrior / Ret Pally but Warrior / Rogue is fine too with back-up from a Holy Pally via Justice). In any case, shamans buffing their group (or themselves with a simple flametongue weapon buff) with MS on their flametongue totem wouldn't be that much of a deal for me (I know it's been scrapped, but just throwing out my opinion). Enhancement shamans are still sadly a joke. Sure there are some highly rated ones but it's extremely difficult to play them right (and in the right team composition to boot). Elemental and Resto shamans don't melee and they usually throw down Windfury for the warrior.
__________________
|
|
2008-03-19, 09:17 | Link #472 | |
Did someone call a doctor
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 41
|
Quote:
That was in massive sarcasm quotes btw... Pitty it never even worked on test to see how it played out. Either way MS shits me off (playing as Priest for 3 years made me hate the.. ability, almost said skill, with such unholy fervor that I cannot wait to make a Death Knight and drop Unholy Embrace on a warrior and laugh myself to death), I wish they had put some more visible effort in finding some way to buff Enh shaman for PvP, Instant Ghost Wolf does rock, Toughness is OK but kinda heavy for 5 points still. But we still have talents like Shield Specialization. MS totem might not have been the right thing but it was going somewhere. SR flat out nerf, that really ticks me off.
__________________
Last edited by Mr Hat and Clogs; 2008-03-19 at 09:57. |
|
2008-03-19, 11:53 | Link #474 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
|
Quote:
Quote:
Plus, like I said on the other forum; spell pushback and interrupts make our main-heals impossible to use. Even dangerous, since interrupting them also prevents the use of instants. |
||
2008-03-19, 17:35 | Link #475 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
|
A shaman doesn't have any melee burst damage potential if its a healer. If its enhancement its healing power is worthless. I play an Elem shaman and in pvp if anything melee gets on me I'm basically dead. There is no way for me to escape and that is the main reason I've given up on pvp with that character.
__________________
|
2008-03-19, 20:26 | Link #476 | |
Yandere for win :O
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Singapore
|
Quote:
Druids have the best shot of escape but the moment they are judged with justice, they're just about as useless. A mace warrior and mace rogue (yes, we all hate mace stun) in my face pretty much turtles me up in bear form, I can't even cheetah right due to the random stuns (on top of the standard stuns from a rogue). A warrior or a rogue can solo a druid, if the pally slams justice onto the druid beforehand. Enhancement shamans like I said are a huge joke in the upper brackets. They may have huge burst potential but they have one weakness which weighs them down...getting to the target itself. Warriors and rogues are so much faster in closing in before they get CC-ed. Can't say the same for an enhancement shaman and thus why they're not considered threats to most teams. Resto shamans are pretty sad. I used to play with a Gladiator-contending resto shaman back in Season 2 and it was kinda sad how she couldn't do much when a rogue humps her. Earth shield is often purged / dispelled off. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ The point is not that one class is more awesome than the other. Every healing class (and spec) brings something to the table. How I wished I had a dispel like priests to bail my Paladin out of that polymorph. But then again, I'd lose my greater mobility and escaping options. Comparing the classes across the board doesn't really go anywhere since all of them have their weaknesses (and their respective strengths). Team composition matters a great deal too. People bring priests to 5v5 to have two defensive dispels in case one or the other get CC-ed. I get brought along to cyclone dps ---> cyclone a healer + a hard burst switch on focus target to kill someone. Shamans are brought along for purge + heroism + windfury for the warrior (well, resto shamans are still kinda bad in my opinion). Pallies are often seen as the main healers to any team and they're excellent endurance healers but they are very vulnerable to being a top CC priority target for most teams and once that bubble is gone...they are just as squishy as any other healer (yes, even with that awesome plate). Did I mention how pallies cry when they get mana burned? Having said all of the above, once again I'd like to reinforce what I said in an earlier post...WoW PvP is definitely not balanced right and there are still problems.
__________________
|
|
2008-03-20, 17:55 | Link #477 |
Salt Levels Critical
Join Date: Oct 2007
|
I finally got around to transferring my lv 58 rogue. Felt good to log into one of my alliance characters after a year. Until I was taking a dirt nap about a minute later. Outland is very exciting for a melee class in Azeroth greens. Wish I had some quests in Azeroth to go back to but sadly I finished nearly all of them since I originally leveled the character before the leveling buff.
|
2008-03-20, 23:51 | Link #478 |
Did someone call a doctor
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 41
|
Haha, yeah Outland mobs hit hard against newbie geared characters. When I took my shaman there for the first time, it was... interesting. I hit the AH up about 10 minutes later and got some cheap 'of the bandit' greens to replace the SM gear that i was currently wearing. Went a little better then.
Hit me up in game if you want a little help getting through HFP to start with, if I've got nothing on (sitting in Shattrath is pressing business u c) I'll come clear out some quests for you. char is Vexana Did transfer to Proudmoore-US right? >.>
__________________
|
2008-03-21, 15:13 | Link #479 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
|
@ StarTouch
I'm glad you admitted the methods I described, since countering them is another matter because something can go wrong with the timings. However, my point was that priests have none of these methods. No bear, frost shock, or bubble. There is no need to discuss about countering priest skills, since there are none. |
Tags |
blizzard, game, mmorpg, online, warcraft, windows |
Thread Tools | |
|
|