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View Poll Results: Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 11 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 51 | 57.95% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 25 | 28.41% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 8 | 9.09% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 2 | 2.27% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 0 | 0% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 1.14% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 1.14% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-06-12, 14:25 | Link #41 | ||
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35
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So yeah, she's all around a horrible person right now. eta Quote:
Wait, I was disagreeing just now wasn't I? I guess she has very small feelings for her then ...
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2011-06-12, 14:29 | Link #42 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: New York, USA
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And in the magazine's case, they'd probably call it advertising or sponsorship money. That's why you always have to follow the money when you're reading a review. On car commercials, have you ever noticed how they'll say something like "Endorsed by JD Power and Associates" or "received an award from______?" Those firms all get money from the companies they endorse. It's shady, but not illegal. That's why you have to be an informed customer.
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2011-06-12, 14:34 | Link #43 | ||||||||
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Uh oh... I have opened the Pandora's Box. What I have gotten myself into?
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2. The publication's bosses are the readers. Reviewers' boss is the owner and/or editor of the publication who cuts the check. Quote:
For a reviewer who writes what her bosses tell her to write. No. Quote:
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Your earlier post criticized Satuski for failing to speak out or to quit her job. Therefore, you are criticizing her for lack of courage, and I am saying that we should reserve such judgments until we have to face the same hard choice. This has nothing to do with whether people not in the same situation should have the freedom to speak out. Everyone should have the freedom to speak out against injustices. But people should not judge others poorly for not speaking out because they lacked the courage to do so - until we ourselves have demonstrated the courage first. I think this is a mature, and an honorable standard. I won't sit in my comfortable chair, with a job security, and demand other people to sacrifice their livelihood or to make difficult life choices so that they can live up to my moral standards. Quote:
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That's why I like this episode. Wal-Mart has destroyed some jobs, I am sure (though I don't take this position). So if everyone who has put other people's jobs in jeopardy should quit, should all Wal-Mart employees all start quitting now? As for your question on whether bribery in this case is a crime. The answer is nuanced. Writing a false review is libel, which can be fought in court. Accepting bribes to write a malicious or false piece about government can sometimes carry criminal charges. But in America, accepting compensations for writing a nasty piece about another business will not result in any criminal charges. ============================================= Quote:
As I have mentioned in the upstream, professionalism has nothing to do with following lofty ideals or becoming the most honest person alive, or knowing what one should be doing. Professionalism is about following the corporate culture, mores, and expectations. If you are working for a biased publication who will do anything for advertising dollars, then the professional thing to do would be to either: 1. quit; 2. accept it and do your job. The first choice shows incredible integrity and courage, but not professionalism. Similarly, choosing the second option does not diminish one's professionalism. Quote:
As for how Satsuki does not care about Ohana, I see her bringing snacks to Ohana even though she clearly disagrees with Ohana's position to be an indication that she cares a great deal about Ohana - in her own ways. Last edited by ipodi; 2011-06-12 at 15:22. |
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2011-06-12, 14:39 | Link #44 |
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Now, time to review the episode in general.
Like Tsuyoshi, I also think that this was an absolutely wonderful episode. It was just chock full of excellent and dramatic character development and plot development. Ohana has now become my favorite anime character of this season. She has a completely contagious charisma to her. Her fiery and relentless opposition to what she feels is unjust is truly admirable and a lot of fun to watch, really. The plot of this episode was very tight, and perfectly paced. It had a good dual focus, as one part focused on the Inn review storyline, and the other part focused on Ohana's relationship with Ko. Okada did a splendid job of having the two come together in a very natural, realistic, and seamless fashion. The confrontation between Ohana and her mother was excellent. This may sound odd given my earlier points on this thread, but I'm actually glad that Satsuki was presented as such an unabashed antagonist, as this provides Ohana with the perfect foil to go up against. In many ways, it makes Ohana's earlier conflict with the Management Consultant seem like mere practice for the mother vs. daughter main event. Between the Management Consultant, and now Satsuki, I see how this anime may have a fair bit of social commentary to it, and I welcome that. On the romance front, the plot is certainly thickening isn't it? Okada does it again, managing to weave together a complex romantic conflict that would make most harem anime shows blush. I have to say that Okada does romantic conflict as well as any anime writer around, and that certainly came through nicely in this episode. While this isn't my favorite HSI episode, it's a very close 2nd, and I give it 10/10.
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2011-06-12, 15:05 | Link #45 | ||
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35
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Of course, whether or not these reasons are valid or reasonable remains to be seen. Quote:
At the moment, I'm gathering that Kohana is where the core is meant to be at for the romantic plot, but I'm honestly far more interested in Minchii's position. She clearly had developed feelings of great respect for Ohana, and I think it's safe to say that she sees her as a friend (though she may not want to admit that heh) so what will happen once Tooru makes his move? Ko likes Ohana, but in case it doesn't work out, has this other girl who's waiting for him, Ohana is already interested in Ko, and Tooru obviously has been developing (unbelievably) some Romantic feelings towards her. At the moment she's the one who has the best chance of being royally screwed by the incoming battle, whether by Tooru not returning her feelings or by her stepping aside for her friend (or wanting her beloved to be happy)
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2011-06-12, 15:25 | Link #46 | ||||||||||||
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I never said that she did.
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Even from a purely pragmatic point of view, what Satsuki is doing here is risky stuff. Suppose a lot of people who were actually at these Inns end up reading the overly negative reviews, and rightly notice that they're garbage? Those same people can then protest the reviews, bringing controversy and shame on to the publication that Satsuki wrote the reviews in. Satsuki herself could easily get caught up in that, and have her career ruined. A true professional would object to such needless risks (or at least not partake in them). These risks are ones that undermine the integrity of the profession itself. Quote:
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It is not just that Satsuki is turning a blind eye to such corruptions (which I wouldn't like, but I could easily forgive). It's that she's an active participant in them, and doesn't even feel the slightest sense of guilt over them. Quote:
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It's hardly a great leap of logic to then speculate that Satuski's harsh review of her mother's Inn was motivated, in part, but Satuski's personal issues with her mothers. Quote:
There's a difference between costing jobs through honest competition in the marketplace, and costing jobs through dishonest reviews. Quote:
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2. For some professions, at least, honesty and professionalism do go hand-in-hand. I would definitely consider a professional reviewer to be one such profession. Quote:
Professionalism is about living up to the standards set by other members of your profession. And the standards of professional reviewers involve giving honest reviews. Quote:
Satsuki may care about her daughter at a superficial level, but not to any significant degree, in my opinion.
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2011-06-12, 15:49 | Link #47 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
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By the way, the way that Ohana calls out for Kou-chan to save her is kind of telling when it comes to her relationship with her mother. Her mother is basically a grown child that Ohana felt responsible for, but since Satsuki is the adult, Ohana has no true authority over her and therefore is stuck worrying about her, cooking and just hoping that her mother for once would do the right thing.
Then along comes dependable, kind and helpful Kou-chan, who, aside from possibly some teachers, would be Ohana's only support and source of warm affection. He comforts her, encourages her, is there for her, you know, just about all those things that Satsuki is not. So when Ohana is in distress it is Kou-chan she calls for, and not her mother. And now she also knows that Minko and Tooru will be there when she calls for help (even if by coincidence). Just think of how terrifying Ohana's life before Kou-chan would have been; a mother that flakes out, who wont even cook on her own, who can't comfort a pet rock, who ends up with troublesome boyfriends and who just wont take care of herself. And Ohana had to deal with it on her own, without any support. No wonder she refuses to rely on people before she gets to know them. |
2011-06-12, 15:59 | Link #49 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Boston
Age: 34
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I think it's a mistake to categorize her behavior as mature, though. I can see why a high-handed criticism of her lack of moral courage might seem somewhat hollow, given that many of us have never been in Satsuki's shoes. The issue, for me, is that Satsuki wasn't writing fabricated reviews about a random stranger. She was writing them about her mother and her daughter. I'd like to think that even if I wouldn't have the moral courage to speak out in all circumstances, there are at least a few people in my life who I would be willing to stand up for, even if it might be a poor career decision. Essentially, what this episode showed was that there is nobody in Satsuki's life who she feels the need to stand up for. That's not a sign of maturity, nor is it a sign of immaturity. It's just sad.
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2011-06-12, 16:03 | Link #50 | ||
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Ohana's grandma is cold towards her. Satsuki is chipper but bassically is a poster child for parental negligence. |
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2011-06-12, 16:05 | Link #51 | |||||||||||||||
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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That's not what I said. I stated that how internet has changed the reader-reviewer relationship is irrelevant, so bringing it up serves no purpose.
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By all accounts, Ohana is. Quote:
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So I wish not to expound on this any further. We will just be going in circles if one party adopts his own definition. Quote:
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I said how this series depicts the situation Satsuki is facing is mature. I did not say she is mature. I did not say she did the right or wrong thing. I did not criticize or praise anyone other than Ohana. ===================================== Ummmm... no. There is a near consensus that snowflakery and self-entitlement are running wild among schoolkids. Last edited by ipodi; 2011-06-12 at 16:26. |
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2011-06-12, 16:07 | Link #52 | |||
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I thought I touched on this in my earlier post: the continuous problem is that Satsuki's neglected Ohana all her life, and that she had the nerve to say she raised Ohana pissed me off to say the least. Satsuki hasn't done anything to make Ohana happy even once: never gave her the right present for xmas if any, never showed up at parent's day at school, back out of any promise she made, like taking her to the pool, what have you. The continuous problem is Satsuki's neglectful attittude toward her daughter, so much that she never even bothered to tell Ohana that she's back in Tokyo, split up with her bf and asked if she was doing fine. No, she dumped her at Kissuiso and that was it so far as her relationship with Ohana went. THAT's the continuous problem.
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Being cold and unpleasant to your kid IS a parental failure. When you, deliberately or not, lose your way to communicate to your kid because you're cold and distant, neglecting their needs and desires, that's what it is to be a failure as a parent. On top of that Satsuki didn't try to patch things up and abandoned Ohana. As for the snacks, knowing Satsuki, she gave them to Ohana as her way of saying "give up, you're not gonna convince me anytime soon" rather than showing caring for her. |
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2011-06-12, 16:19 | Link #54 | ||||
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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================================= What? Then have the kids to all turn out like Ohana? That would be utopia. |
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2011-06-12, 16:25 | Link #55 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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That said, while Ohana's mother didn't necessarily make an admirable decision, I wouldn't call her a bad person. Most people would not risk their job over something like this, especially considering Ohana's mother and grandmother aren't on good terms anyways (Which people seem to be failing to take into account here). To stand up for something, there's got to be something in it for you. I doubt many would toss away their job for moral integrity unless something else they valued was on the line for them.
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2011-06-12, 16:31 | Link #56 | ||
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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2011-06-12, 16:40 | Link #57 |
♪~ Daydreaming ~♪
Graphic Designer
Administrator Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Italy
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Heads up: I've created a Satsuki thread, so please move there to expand the discussion about Satsuki.
This is the ep. 11 thread and room shall be left for people to discuss this (wonderful, spectacular, magnificent) episode on its whole.
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2011-06-12, 16:47 | Link #58 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Re: Satsuki's professionalism: As a writer for a PR firm masquerading as an honest magazine, I'd say she's professional. At least, she gets the job done. OTOH, if you think of her as an actual reviewer... So, yeah. I won't discuss the ethics of that magazine, but I'll say that from a business standpoint, it's not necessarily nonsensical. Tabloids sometimes publish libel knowing that whatever fines they'll have to pay will be dwarfed by the benefits they'll draw. Here, it's slightly different: they know they're not really at risk of being contradicted. Especially since they couched their reviews in unfalsifiable subjective terms. I suppose if the inns managed to make a big splash of how their reviewer never actually visited, they could lose readership and it'd be bad, but how likely is that? One point of hope, though: it looked like someone sent a reviewer, who left satisfied. Maybe it wasn't Satsuki's magazine, but a rival? |
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2011-06-12, 16:53 | Link #59 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Based on the moderator's comment, I will not make further comments about Satsuki. Last edited by ipodi; 2011-06-12 at 17:11. |
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