2008-06-14, 15:22 | Link #1181 | |||
TRUE! Lelouch is dead! XD
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Age: 36
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2008-06-14, 15:24 | Link #1183 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Those who run away just because they aren't willing to make the difficult choices, lack leadership. You do what you have to do, because doing nothing can often be much worse.
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2008-06-14, 15:46 | Link #1188 |
TRUE! Lelouch is dead! XD
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Jersey
Age: 36
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I guess I understand the feeling. But yeah, this discussion actually helped me. I may be caught up with the anime, but I am still techincally a n00b. Now I am looking at things a little differently than I first did. Still not a huge fan of the way Lelouch treats people or situations though...
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2008-06-14, 16:34 | Link #1190 | |
「Darkly Charismatic 」
Artist
Join Date: May 2008
Location: The Lounge
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2008-06-14, 16:36 | Link #1191 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Very true, and that's what makes the series interesting. Yet while neither of them is completely right or wrong, a lot of people here are a bit too forgiving towards Lelouch compared to the treatment Suzaku gets. So I can understand why one would feel the need to try and balance things a little by reminding his fanboys than he is very much not perfect, and that admitting he's not does not make him perfect either.
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2008-06-14, 16:43 | Link #1192 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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The ones Lelouch killed(sacificed) were renmants looking to link up with the Order, wait for Toudo, or make a run for China. Eitherway, as Ougi noted, Zero is the only thing that can help them stand up against Britannia. No one else is competent enough for the job so even if they are being manipulated/pawned(Which they noted), they'll follow him. Besides aren't leaders suppose to be the ones making ugly decisions and who gets to die or live? Ignorance is bliss at times and I'm sure Toudo knows that. |
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2008-06-14, 17:00 | Link #1193 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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quick question...is lelouch just using nunally as an excuse to rebel against charles or is he still trying to protect her? e.g. when nunally owns him twice with her 'save me, suzaku' and the 2nd SAZ it just seems that lelouch conveniently finds another reason to continue his rebellion. if he's trying to protect her still, why does he state that his fight is no longer about her?
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2008-06-14, 17:11 | Link #1195 | ||||||
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
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There is a fundamental difference between leaders and managers. Managers run processes, and leaders lead men. And part of leading is that, if and when you can, you tell your men not only what to do but why they should do it. A bad leader says "dig here" or "shoot there." A good leader will say "dig here to set a trap that will save you later," or "shoot there, because that will be where the enemy will break through," because a good leader knows that his men and women will work harder and better when they know what they are working for. For all of Zero's charisma and tactical brilliance, he isn't that good of a leader. Zero's legitimacy as leader is now only based on one thing: results. Compared to what he had before the Black Rebellion, and what he has after, he really lost a lot of legitimacy. Quote:
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Look, the Black Knights! Opposer of all who abuse their power, benefactors of the downtrodden, honest! And whatabout that Zero, eh? Loyal to his friends and comrads. You can trust Zero. Lelouch has sculpted an entire persona around having the moral highground. Quote:
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And, of course, the hostage incident was the action of a rogue faction without prior approval, hence why we had the scene of the JLF headquarters being so surprised. |
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2008-06-14, 17:32 | Link #1197 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: world of devilman lady
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2008-06-14, 22:11 | Link #1198 | |
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 35
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Leadership is complicated. Very complicated. I think you'll find that many a "great" leader in the history of the world have very different behaviors from what you suggest. I won't claim to know what it means to be a great leader, or I'll have been a leader myself by now -- but I think it's also dubious if you say that you know what a leader should do yourself. The show constantly pounds on the fact that Zero's leadership style is based primarily on results. He creates miracles, and the public deifies him: Zero's actions allowed for victories in the past = Zero's actions bring victory = Zero is commanding us now to do this action = this action will bring victory = let's do it even if we die. We can of course argue on whether that is effective or not, but to say that the opposite is definitely good leadership is something I cannot accept at face value. It might seem logical -- they know what their actions will achieve = they'll do it -- but humans are hardly logical creatures; and the characters of Code Geass has in fact displayed an even less logical nature compared to ordinary people in real life, so yeah. |
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2008-06-14, 23:21 | Link #1199 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
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