2010-09-06, 15:54 | Link #17344 | |
Local Crackpot
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Somewhere?
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... WHY? Nevermind how, but...Why would Shannon stuff 900 tons of explosives in her bra?
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Also, I'm a bit confused: Are the 'Golden Witch' and the 'Endless Witch' two entirely separate titles? Why is it the Eva-Beato only inherits one of them?
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2010-09-06, 15:58 | Link #17345 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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2010-09-06, 16:06 | Link #17346 | |||
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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As far as I can tell, trying to figure out which of those infinite possible worlds is "real" is a fool's errand, because they're all real. The important thing is that initial state that held when the cat box closed, because that's what constrains the behavior of the characters and identifies the culprit. And as long as a possible world is consistent with that initial state and doesn't break open the cat box, whether it does or doesn't have fantasy elements in it is completely irrelevant. We get a corresponding fragment in either case. Quote:
Besides that, even if fantasies are added to the sea of fragments, that doesn't make it impossible to reach the starting conditions. Among all of the mystery fragments, there are certainly an infinite number that don't present enough hints, but Beato carefully selected a handful that did so she could make the mystery solvable for Battler. That task doesn't change no matter what fragments are available. In fact, if she had shoved a true fantasy fragment in Battler's face before EP5, she would have stalemated anyway. Quote:
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2010-09-06, 16:11 | Link #17347 |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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That explains the boob missiles Kanon mention in one of the anime previews
As for the previous topic on Jessica, I just can't see her as a villain and I can't see why people try to demonize her. George I can see because he does act like a smug jerk. But Jessica has only been shown that way once and it was made clear that she was being possessed by the power of Zepar and Furfur's enhancements. In EP 6 she was the one asking the big question "why can't both couples be together" while George was just going along with it. Every piece of evidence of her being evil is circumstantial at best. Like I said, George I can understand why people think he's a culprit. But considering how close the game is to the end I feel like people need to drop it. |
2010-09-06, 16:23 | Link #17349 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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But if Beatrice is a higher order entity, she can't affect the real world Battler comes from (otherwise we still can't win) even if she can affect other realities, and the situation is still structurally equivalent to the gameboard world not being of the same kind as the world Meta-Battler comes from. That is, being fiction within fiction.
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2010-09-06, 16:23 | Link #17350 | |
Local Crackpot
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Somewhere?
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In short, Episode 7 lesson: Why?
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2010-09-06, 16:46 | Link #17352 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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And I think the "how" is a bigger issue here, you'd have to defy at least two laws of physic here to make it work. While the why can always be explained with insanity or a suicidal death wish (which Shannon is confirmed to have). In fact does it make any difference where you place 900tons of explosives? It's not like it's any safer to have them under your feet. Quote:
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2010-09-06, 16:47 | Link #17353 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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At least, I know I was joking. |
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2010-09-06, 16:52 | Link #17354 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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That said, I believe that the game boards are fiction. It makes sense for the "games" to be a metaphor for fiction. |
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2010-09-06, 17:01 | Link #17355 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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This comes about as close to strict proof for the Author Theory as it can get, actually. Most importantly, a few interesting conclusions from this follow:
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2010-09-06, 17:10 | Link #17356 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I think's that's why Ryuukishi created the tea party of episode7, that was his last chance to give to a vast group of the readers exactly what they expected... but in the most insipid and heartless way possible... As if saying... there you have your psycho killer... happy?
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2010-09-06, 17:20 | Link #17357 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Definition: "First order fiction" is the story of Meta-Battler, which is, to us, fiction. "Second order fiction" is the story of the gameboards that Meta-Battler is reading and reacting to. Now, if Ange-1998 lives in the second order fiction, Rokkenjima Incident can be fiction through and through, though in that case, the first order fiction is simply not solvable, as nothing remains for us to consider "true" and pinpoint the identity of the author. If any part of them is first order fiction, some sort of incident has to have happened, (it blew up, remember) but it doesn't have to be murder, and I'm pretty definite survivors exist. (See the logic of message bottles described by Renall previously.) It is possible for Ange-1998 life story to be a second order fictional account of first order fiction events, then it gets really complicated.
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2010-09-06, 17:32 | Link #17358 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Logically it should be a first order fiction, but EP6 put everything in jeopardy.
I still prefer to think it's a first order fiction because that would give to this umineko story sense and order. The Rokkenjima 2 days of the incident are a catbox, this concept is clear so inside the catbox infinite possible worlds can exist. But the world of 1998 shouldn't be a catbox. Also if we don't have a reliable POV from the future it's practically impossible for us to understand what happened in the real Rokkenjima. If such a POV doesn't exist then we can only reason about the games...
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2010-09-06, 18:00 | Link #17359 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Further speculation, which, while not unfounded, is in no way proven, it's mostly an intuitive interpretation: The stories are actually messages exchanged between the survivors of the incident. I believe there are actually at least three authors, (making it four survivors of the real incident) and Featherinne is not necessarily any of them.
Something like that.
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2010-09-06, 18:33 | Link #17360 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Floor eh duh?
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Ok,so I don't get 1.Why don't the authors know the culprit and 2.How the culprit is alive. Oh and, 3.Why are they sending messages to this person without knowing who the culprit is,just to give them a riddle of who they are? 4.I still don't get why the culprit wrote an EP7,or even put all he/she knows. |
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