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Old 2007-12-30, 15:28   Link #1441
guuchan
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We can argue over opinions, but over personal understanding (I won't say facts anymore because I see that somehow obvious things can be seen in a different way, like how the scene of Kei opening the door can be interpreted as a rejection. I mean, I... *try to find words*) is just a bit too much.

I would like to fill in an interesting piece of information though: in the game, if you reach the bad ending in Miyako's chapter by choosing to go to watch Kei's basketball game instead of spending the day with Miyako on bed, Miyako would leave you, and you will end up with Kei as a brother and sister relationship just like before, which means back to square one. You can tell the story is just intended that way, that Kei and Hiro are never meant to be lovers.

Wonder if that's convincing enough.
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Old 2007-12-30, 16:52   Link #1442
ScR3WiEuS
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as someone who worked with guuchan on this show, i think that you guys are just overanalyzing it. same happens with other romance shows like Suzuka, where people keep trying to relate it to all sort of psychologic and philosophic crap.
if you look hard enough, you'll always find something to support your argument.
i think the show is best enjoyed for what it is, for the atmosphere it creates. some things are better left alone.
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Old 2007-12-30, 18:29   Link #1443
tabun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guuchan
You can tell the story is just intended that way, that Kei and Hiro are never meant to be lovers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScR3WiEuS
as someone who worked with guuchan on this show, i think that you guys are just overanalyzing it. same happens with other romance shows like Suzuka, where people keep trying to relate it to all sort of psychologic and philosophic crap.
if you look hard enough, you'll always find something to support your argument.
i think the show is best enjoyed for what it is, for the atmosphere it creates. some things are better left alone.
Absolutely!

If you watch a show, no matter the genre, it is always fun to analyze the motives behind each person's behaviour or decisions; but it is even more fun to take their decisions then as something you just have to accept, as a given. The wondering how all will work out is a part of the enjoyment such an experience can bring you.

However "bad" the writers may have approached certain aspects in your eyes, just let it go. Let the impression sink in. After all, having such a discussion in this thread, about a show that wasn't even given it's own sub forum, is a neat thing just don't resolve to bickering.

Cheers
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Old 2007-12-30, 18:40   Link #1444
cyoti
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I have a question, why are there no scenes in the present timeframe between Chihiro and Kei?
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Old 2007-12-30, 18:52   Link #1445
Zippicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyoti View Post
I have a question, why are there no scenes in the present timeframe between Chihiro and Kei?
I don't think they ever touched on that particular subject. We do know that they keep in contact at least. I always thought it was odd that Chihiro didn't live with her parents or Kei.
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Old 2007-12-30, 18:55   Link #1446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
I don't think they ever touched on that particular subject. We do know that they keep in contact at least. I always thought it was odd that Chihiro didn't live with her parents or Kei.
Really? Considering chihiro's needs, it would have been the better choice to leave him with someone who could take care of her pretty much every hour of everyday. Kei wouldn't have had the free time to do so and god knows where their parents are (mental breakdown after the accident? I duno ).
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Old 2007-12-30, 19:08   Link #1447
Zippicus
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
Really? Considering chihiro's needs, it would have been the better choice to leave him with someone who could take care of her pretty much every hour of everyday. Kei wouldn't have had the free time to do so and god knows where their parents are (mental breakdown after the accident? I duno ).
Her condition isn't that bad, she doesn't really require any special care. From what we were shown she basically took care of herself, she just lives with Yu for some unknown reason.
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Old 2007-12-30, 19:10   Link #1448
Skyfall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
Really? Considering chihiro's needs, it would have been the better choice to leave him with someone who could take care of her pretty much every hour of everyday. Kei wouldn't have had the free time to do so and god knows where their parents are (mental breakdown after the accident? I duno ).
And instead she is stuck with a guy that leaves her alone sitting in abandoned train station all day. Definitely a vast improvement if their intentions were "having someone constantly look after her"

I really wish the show had expanded on the reasons she is living with Yuu .. as of now all of it is wild speculation.
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Old 2007-12-30, 19:38   Link #1449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
I really wish the show had expanded on the reasons she is living with Yuu .. as of now all of it is wild speculation.
I wish there was more exposition on Yuu in general. He's incredibly cynical and does seem to have a history with Chihiro. Not to mention his romance with Yuuko in the game and the last scene in "Coda: Dream"
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Old 2007-12-30, 19:48   Link #1450
ironbomb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guuchan View Post
We can argue over opinions, but over personal understanding (I won't say facts anymore because I see that somehow obvious things can be seen in a different way, like how the scene of Kei opening the door can be interpreted as a rejection. I mean, I... *try to find words*) is just a bit too much.

I would like to fill in an interesting piece of information though: in the game, if you reach the bad ending in Miyako's chapter by choosing to go to watch Kei's basketball game instead of spending the day with Miyako on bed, Miyako would leave you, and you will end up with Kei as a brother and sister relationship just like before, which means back to square one. You can tell the story is just intended that way, that Kei and Hiro are never meant to be lovers.

Wonder if that's convincing enough.
This might sound "absurd" but I think comparing the game to the anime is not reasonable...the anime should be looked at as what it is not what other information you personally know and not to the general public base on another source. Don't get me wrong though, I agree that Kei and Hiro was not the couple meant to be and nothing more than a sibling relationship.

Just something I want to note down, According to the conversation with Yuko at the rooftop, when he was thinking on what to do and saw the rooftop door open. Part of the conversation was that mentally, Hiro knew what should have been done and knew what he wanted to do with each of the girls....it was never stated what he wanted but he knew...

I also wish there would have been more exposure on Yu and Chihiro's relationship. It was obvious that she remembers him even without her diary and not someone she spent hours and hours with on a daily basis...so Yu must have a significant meaning to her life other than her current guardian.
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Old 2007-12-30, 19:57   Link #1451
Deathkillz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
And instead she is stuck with a guy that leaves her alone sitting in abandoned train station all day. Definitely a vast improvement if their intentions were "having someone constantly look after her"

I really wish the show had expanded on the reasons she is living with Yuu .. as of now all of it is wild speculation.
Ah yea...that is the downside to the plan

(Otoh yuu could be that stalker dude with the binoculars, behind the bushes, who chihiro has been wondering about but is too afraid to go over and say hi )
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Old 2007-12-30, 20:00   Link #1452
Fweakin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
And instead she is stuck with a guy that leaves her alone sitting in abandoned train station all day. Definitely a vast improvement if their intentions were "having someone constantly look after her"

I really wish the show had expanded on the reasons she is living with Yuu .. as of now all of it is wild speculation.
My interpretation was that she was living with Yuu to save her family the heartbreak of her memorylessness, sort of the same reasons as why she broke it off with Renji in ep 11.

Chihiro was not in a happy place at the start of the series, and I remember her saying something to the effect of how futile and pointless her life was and how she'd rather she just disappeared.
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Old 2007-12-30, 20:09   Link #1453
guuchan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironbomb View Post
This might sound "absurd" but I think comparing the game to the anime is not reasonable...the anime should be looked at as what it is not what other information you personally know and not to the general public base on another source. Don't get me wrong though, I agree that Kei and Hiro was not the couple meant to be and nothing more than a sibling relationship.
I just brought that up as supplementary information. It's not something I really wanted to resort to, but I believe you should be able to see the reason why. However, it is reasonable. In fact, it's something we do all the time on forums when the anime is adapted from manga/game. They might add in new material or change some of the content in adaptation, but the general idea does not change in almost all the cases. When you want to make a point to go across, it's always useful to quote from the original source.
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Old 2007-12-30, 20:38   Link #1454
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Sorry >.< I haven't caught up on my Ef thread for a few days ^^. It's a bit long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dop View Post
Well that was fantastic. One of the reasons I loved this series was its symbolism in the style of the animation, and this last episode was no exception. The moment that really did it for me though was when...
Spoiler for final episode in case anyone's not seen it yet:


The style, the symbolism, and the interlinked plot threads, and let's not forget the music, made this for me one of the best series of 2007.
You're just a sentimental person ^^. For me I just had pure excitement in my body cause the story was such a touching one. I think the anime will make a great repeatable anime even though I know the story now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EFrules View Post
I wish EF will get bunch of awards, because the series deserve such recognition.
I can tell from your user name that you love it just as much as we do here ^_^.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cytrus View Post
Expectedly, Chihiro and Renji take the spotlight here.

But I found the very last sequence very interesting.
Spoiler for ep 12:
It just speaks to me like that, and I'm not even a practising Christian. (Then again, the writer of ef probably isn't, either.)
Very well said and thought out. Though I am iffy to agree with you on some of these matters, I would say that can explain some part of the anime that needed some good interpretations. Since you said it in a fashion in which I would agree and support on, it's no longer needed for me to press this matter further ^^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
hmm...? I'm not quite sure where you guys are getting this from. Although I can get on board with Hiro having little or no prior romantic inclination towards Kei before he got together with Miyako, I'd also contend that Hiro had little or no romantic inclination towards Miyako until she 'made her move', per se, such that she 'got' him only by virtue of being first. But that's still debatable.
Agreed with what Skyfall said. While Hiro did have some kind of relationship with Kei, you never really see any kind of emotional attachment he had toward Kei, other than a older brother thing. Kei was for me, nothing more than a support for Hiro with no special connection other than a childhood relationship, in which Miyako and Hiro has similarities in which they can relate with. Thus their difference balanced out with Hiro's dream and Miyako's emptiness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElementSun View Post
Dang... I wonder if anyone knows where I can get the music sheet for the song in the prologue (the instrumental of the finale ending song =D)
Quote:
Originally Posted by porchoky View Post
Actually, all of miyato's voice messages and the 100 second thing started to really get on my nerves about halfway through each one. Not as in I didn't like it, my brain just couldn't physically take any more of it (something to do with how phones multilate your voices, and the picture of the phone booth - 90 seconds, beep - phone booth - 89 seconds, beep - etc). It was physically painful. I'm messed up like that.

And yeah, I f*cking want the sheet music for the piano part. It would be so awesome to play that. I might just put it on my mp3 player and go over and try to play it by ear.
I'll be out soon, don't worry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fweakin View Post
I

That said, I LOVED everything about the 100 seconds cut.
Same, that one a dramatic part of the episode. That 100 time card conversion was a nice 4 and a half minute well spent time ^_^.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gaguri View Post
Well, given how much korean melos there are out there, chances are, there are going to be few great ones. My comment is based on some of the most popular melos I've watched, such as Winter Sonata, Full House, First love of a Royal Prince, Something Happened in Bali, Stairway to Heaven and so on. They're all few years old, and I can't recall anything in great details, but that was my general impression of that time (when I used to enjoy melos for its cheesy and dramatic charms and tolerant to its cheap plots and shallow characters).
And I didn't mind the fox magic in Kanon at all because the whole thing appeared to me more as a dreamy vision, rather than half-surreal and half-real world of shows such as, well, Honey and Clover. If Hagu in HC turned into a fox and her friends cried because of it...well, then I'd have something to raise my eyebrow at.


That's the thing, plenty of people (like you have stated) saw Hirohiro developing by choosing one or the other. There has been arguments made before that this is not the case, but that's what many people saw it as. And I've gone into way too much details to explain why I didn't like it so meh.
Korean melodramas has a different approach to their works, it more like American Soap operas more than anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru
It also is an argument in favor of one-season (12-13 episode) shows. Done well, they can be much tighter than longer series.
Don't forget what I said ^^ "It's better left undone for which we do not know how well the sequel will be".

Quote:
Originally Posted by EFrules View Post
Me too! That's how I feel if someone is posting with different ideas.... because I really love this show.
In which you have to defend them in a democratic way. ^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Heh now even my own feelings and opinion are open to interpretation? I'm not particularly bitter about Kei, my reaction to how Kei handled her relationship with Hiro in episode 10 was actually just what you mentioned, happiness for her newfound sense of self. If you're getting that impression of me, you're mixing something up; those standards of 'slutty' were what I came to the show with, and the basis for my initial judgements of the characters and the viability of their relationships.
It could be that she may have found her in a state of shock that no matter what she may do, her feelings aren't going to be received and expressed back in a way should would've thought. Only you're opinion can be open for interpretation, not you're feelings, no one can change that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Generic Asian Guy View Post
I was more intrigued by Renji/Chihiro's arcs; so much that I feel that this series could have done (better) without Kei/Hiro/Kyousuke.

This series was unbalanced in this sense.
That's only because the anime was focused on this couple, which seem to have created this large fan base for these two.
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Old 2007-12-30, 21:16   Link #1455
Ottocycle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aoie_Emesai View Post
That's only because the anime was focused on this couple, which seem to have created this large fan base for these two.
I thought they gave the edgier scenes to Hiro's story rather than Renji's, but that said, I kind of like a little fluff sometimes, so Renji's story was still far more endearing for me. The text message scene was intense as hell and the 100s countdown was well done, but IMHO there wasn't any good fluff to balance the serious out at all. That and it's just a rather well-woven love triangle, that's all.

*prepares extinguisher*
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Old 2007-12-30, 21:18   Link #1456
ironbomb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guuchan View Post
I just brought that up as supplementary information. It's not something I really wanted to resort to, but I believe you should be able to see the reason why. However, it is reasonable. In fact, it's something we do all the time on forums when the anime is adapted from manga/game. They might add in new material or change some of the content in adaptation, but the general idea does not change in almost all the cases. When you want to make a point to go across, it's always useful to quote from the original source.
I could see that. However, I agree that we have a tendecy to to compare the original source with the adaptations but shouldnt take the event that occurred in the anime in a different perspective which the original source at times do when the anime differs from the manga or the game....I havent played the game or read the manga(Probably will start when more scans are availabe...only see chapter 1 =/)....
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Old 2007-12-30, 21:24   Link #1457
Proto
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I have only read some of the latest post so I'm not sure if this has been already mentioned, (probablu someone does, but I'll just do it again )

When the lyrics "Be alive take it", there were signficant changes in the OP sequences, being the most significant that the characters were no longer disintegrated and destroyed by the chains, but they were breaking free from them... breaking free from their painful memories instead of losing to them?
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Old 2007-12-30, 22:00   Link #1458
physics223
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The anime is decent.

I don't know the game, so ...
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Old 2007-12-30, 23:06   Link #1459
grey_moon
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I think it isn't quite right to say that Hiro and Kei are back to their sibling relationship. The reason is because in my mind they never considered it to be that type. From Kei's point of view she just used the word onichan to get close to him, but stumbled over his issues in moving forward. It is heavily highlighted that Hiro didn't know what Kei was to him until he had to make a choice and then at that point they decided that they were brother and sister.

So I think it is more apt to say that they started their brother sister relationship during the same time as Hiro and Miyako started their romantic relationship.

Here is my take on the final relationships...

Hiro x Miyako - Hiro overcomes his issues with no need for a relationship as such, they are by products of his moving forward. Miyako is very much dependant on hers, hence me always going on about one crutch for another, but if Hiro sticks to being the guy he wants to be then all is good.

Hiro x Kei - Hiro as above, but Kei really shines here, as she overcomes hers with no real dependency on a relationship, instead she has been given a clean plate and hopefully can choose hers with no baggage involved.

Kei x Kyosuke - I think they might make a nice couple for ef 2

Renji x Chihiro - Renji's personal issue is really really subtle in my mind as it isn't in your face like the others are. Part of it was choosing his future (kinda petty in the big scheme of things...), there was how to deal with Chihiro's illness and so on. But the thing is he didn't need the relationship to get over anything, instead he wanted the relationship because he loves Chihiro, I guess he just had to work out that it wasn't a snapshot of Chihiro from the past he loves, but Chihiro here now and in the future. Very beautiful sentiment imho.

Chihio's problems I think can be overshadowed by her 13 hour memory, but as we see in the last episode that isn't such an issue when she loves someone so much. Instead her issue is the chains binding her, and they in my mind are not chains of 13 hours, but chains she eventually displayed in her diary entry after doing the deed. It was fear for hurting herself and fear for hurting the person she loved. The amount of pain and desperation she must of been going through when she told Renji does she know him must have been horrible. For her their relationship is slightly bound to her solving her issues, but I think more so, it was just Renji's manly and non-stalker persistence.
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Old 2007-12-30, 23:55   Link #1460
Ascaloth
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For the final review I will ever give on ef ~a tale of memories~, I will focus on a number of points, some of which may be divided into subpoints. These points are as follows;

Atmosphere
  • Background Music (Tenmon)
  • Art Direction (Katou Megumi)
  • Animation (SHAFT)

The Cast

Main Characters
  • Miyamura Miyako (Taguchi Hiroko)
  • Hirono Hiro (Shimono Hiro)
  • Shindou Kei (Okada Junko)
  • Shindou Chihiro (Yanase Natsumi)
  • Asou Renji (Takagi Motoki)

Side Characters
  • Tsutsumi Kyousuke (Tai Yuuki)
  • Himura Yuu (Toochika Kouichi)
  • Amamiya Yuuko (Nakajima Yumiko)

Script
  • Storyline Quality
  • Pacing
  • Internal Consistency

So there we have it, the basis by which I shall give my review on ef ~a tale of memories~. Ikuzo!
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________



This is the Animesuki Forums chapter of the Triple Critique for ef ~a tale of memories~. The Triple Critique is a system of three reviews on the same series, composed in differing formats for varying needs.
For a short summary, the NHRV chapter offers a 5-minute quick read through the merits of the series.
For a full-picture, unrated review, the RIUVA chapter offers a blog-based discourse.

__________________________________________________ _______________

Atmosphere

A good anime series draws its viewing audience into its own world; to achieve that, it has to set a general mood. To create a certain mood, two things must be achieved; firstly, animation of at least decent quality animation must be present in order not to make the whole thing look too jarring to the viewer's eyes, and secondly, the appropriate set of background music must be selected, in order to convey the general emotions of any particular scene. With the most unlikely of animation studios in charge of the adaptation, how did ef ~a tale of memories~ fare on both accounts?

Background Music (Tenmon)

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Background Music: 9.6/10

Art Direction (Katou Megumi)

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Art Direction: 8.3/10

Animation (SHAFT)

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Animation: 7.9/10

By proving that their signature visual style can be an asset rather than a hindrance in a visual novel adaptation, Oonuma has set the stage for SHAFT to take on absolutely anything under the sun. With a world different from the original game world’s that is still beautiful in its own right, and with the original Tenmon music along with one of his newest pieces composed especially for this adaptation, SHAFT has given us proof that, even though their visual style can be an acquired taste, it can be utilized to create the correct kind of atmosphere for a visual novel adaptation; as they have all but proven, with ef ~a tale of memories~.

Overall Rating for Atmosphere: 8.6/10

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

The Cast (previously Character Handling)

A good setting lays the foundation of the world that the story takes place in, but it is the characters themselves who sets the foundation of the story itself; indeed, the storyline of the entire series rises and falls based on how well each and every character is handled; it's a fine line between making an individual character, or indeed the entire cast, look either dull and uninteresting, or over-the-top and lacking the ability to suspend the disbelief of the audience. So how did ef ~a tale of memories~ fare on this account?

As per usual, I will be rating the performance of the seiyuus as part of the competency in the execution of each individual character.

Main Characters
Miyamura Miyako (Taguchi Hiroko)
”At last, I’ve found a world with sound. I’ve found a home with colour.”

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Miyamura Miyako: 8.2/10
Rating for Taguchi Hiroko: 9.7/10


Hirono Hiro (Shimono Hiro)
”I feel like…I’ve seen the colour I’ve been looking for.”

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Hirono Hiro: 7.2/10
Rating for Shimono Hiro: 8.0/10


Shindou Kei (Okada Junko)
”Beyond here is the place where I fight.”

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Shindou Kei: 7.7/10
Rating for Okada Junko: 8.4/10


Shindou Chihiro (Yanase Natsumi)
”I don’t want to forget. I don’t want to disappear. I don’t want to return to those empty days anymore.”

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Shindou Chihiro: 9.2/10
Rating for Yanase Natsumi: 7.6/10


Asou Renji (Takagi Motoki)
”I won’t let you forget, no matter what happens.”

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Asou Renji: 9.2/10
Rating for Takagi Motoki: 8.3 /10



Side Characters
Although there are a large number of supporting characters in addition to the main cast in ef ~a tale of memories~, only several were instrumental in moving the plot along; accordingly, I shall rate only those of the supporting characters who were important to the story.

Tsutsumi Kyousuke (Tai Yuuki)
”Whether it’s just one scene or one cut, I want to make a film that shakes the souls of those who see it. For that sake, it won’t work if that moment doesn’t shake my own soul.”

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Tsutsumi Kyousuke: 7.8/10
Rating for Tai Yuuki: 8.2/10


Himura Yuu (Toochika Kouichi)
”Miracles don’t exist. There are only inevitabilities and accidents, and what you’re going to do.”

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Himura Yuu: 7.2/10
Rating for Toochika Kouichi: 7.6/10


Amamiya Yuuko (Nakajima Yumiko)
”As long as you live, you can’t run away from pain.”

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Amamiya Yuuko: 6.2/10
Rating for Nakajima Yumiko: 7.0/10


With the possible exception of Chihiro and Renji, a deeper analysis of the cast in the anime adaptation of ef would reveal a relative lack of depth in the personalities of the cast as a whole. However, what gives the individuals of the cast such strength is the raw emoting done to a nicety by the voice actors of the cast; theatrical and melodramatic in their performance they may be, but one cannot deny their ability to breath life into the characters through their skill in their voice alone. The voice actors are the main pillar which holds up the strength of the cast in this anime, so all kudos to them for a wonderful overall performance.

Overall Rating for The Cast: 8.3/10

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Script

A good story; that is what an audience expects, regardless of whether the medium is a book, TV, a movie, or even in this case, an anime. And to get a good story, you need a promising premise, a logical yet appetizing plot, and most importantly of all, inspired direction to make the story really shine amongst its peers. In the current trend of a visual novel adaptation flood in the anime market, how does ef ~a tale of memories~ stand out amongst its peers?

Storyline Quality

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Storyline Quality: 8.4/10

Pacing

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Pacing: 8.9/10

Internal Consistency

Spoiler for length:


Rating for Internal Consistency: 8.2/10

“ef ~a tale of memories~” is in spirit, if not in name, a well-executed Korean melodrama; it may not have some of the great depth of dramatic content that separates the truly great from the good, but brisk pacing and a largely consistent storyline makes sure that interest on the part of the audience never flags. And the presentation of raw emotion has never felt more real or raw than it does here, so despite the relatively lightweight plot, there was never any danger of this series being anything less than good in the storyboarding. And really, the Chihiro-Renji storyline, if taken on its own, would really have been something special indeed.

Overall Rating for Script: 8.5/10

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________

Overall Execution

Overall, “ef ~a tale of memories” has been a stellar example of how melodrama really should be done. Oonuma Shin has proven that the stark visuals of the signature SHAFT style can indeed be used to great effect in a visual novel adaptation, and I’m eager to see what else he is capable of. With a serviceable set of storylines and the rawest presentation of emotionality I have ever seen in memory, “ef ~a tale of memories~” is a solid, yet underrated work that deserves a chance despite the Shinbou visual style.

Final Rating for ef ~a tale of memories~: 8.4/10.

Last edited by Ascaloth; 2007-12-31 at 00:43.
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bishoujo, drama, romance, seinen, shaft

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