Ichigo and Rukia? or Ichigo and Orihime?

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Your conception of Rukia is scewed, sorry to say.

Rukia is not a lonely rogue girl with a dark side, torn between her affections for a guy. She doesn't have a dark side, The only thing that she is torn about is her past crush, Kaein. Its the one thing that destroys her from the inside, and when she thought Ichigo died, she felt that once again she is responsible for anothers death. Everything goes back to Kaein with Rukia.

What Rukia thinks of ichigo is completely debateable as there is no solid evidence and everything is left for interpretation. The only romance that is shown in the entire series is Orihime's feelings for Ichigo.

I don't know how far you got into the series, but it seems like you've only got as far as Soul Society.

Originally Posted by ShuiMei

Not lonely? Are you sure it's not yourself who is unfamiliar with the series?

Spoiler for saving space:

Rukia grew up in the slums of Soul Society, watched her childhood friends slowly die off until she only had Renji left, only to have him essentially "let her go" and cut relations with her when she was adopted by Byakuya into the Kuchiki household. Once she was adopted because of her noble status everyone kept a distance from her except for Kaien, whom she would later kill, all the while her adoptive older brother was a distant, cold fish who has only helped exacerbate her huge inferiority-complex. Oh yes, Rukia's not a lonely girl at all.

Furthermore, it has been through Ichigo that Rukia has been able to open up again and expand her world. She is still very socially awkward and private, but thanks to Ichigo she now has friends to fight for and alongside with. Even Ukitate expressed Rukia's difficulty with making friends when she was training with Orihime in Soul Society, it has not always been easy for Rukia.

And everything does not come back to Kaien. He certainly plays a huge role in Rukia's development, but let's not demean her character and say the only thing she's been troubled by is her "past crush." It's like like her feelings for Kaien were some silly crush, what she felt for him were feelings of deep admiration and comfort in someone who finally made her felt like she belonged. Being abandoned, growing up as a orphan, living in the worst kind of conditions, slowly being torn away from your childhood friends who were like family, being adopted and living in an emotionally-distant environment with a brother that you never feel worthy of, socially out-casted due to her status, killing one of the few people she could find comfort in are situations and circumstances that Rukia has had to endure.

As a result, she is still a fairly reclusive person with a deep inferiority complex, but thanks to Ichigo, who has changed her world just as much as she's changed his, she has slowly begun to heal and overcome some of these things. She's since reconciled with Renji, established a relationship with Byakuya, has found companions and comrades in Chad, Orihime, Ishida, etc and slowly began to rebuild her self-worth with Ichigo fighting to save her life. While I would not call her a rogue, due to her establishing these new relationships with Ichigo et al. Rukia has found a new purpose in her life that go beyond her duties as a shinigami and that is to protect and fight for her friends, the people who are important to her, people which, were it not for Ichigo, she would have never had.

Moreover, Rukia and Ichigo are not characters who openly express their feelings, they're both private individuals who prefer to keep things to themselves and when they do speak, they're not particularly adept at expressing their feelings clearly. While I am not saying that either holds romantic affection for the other and it should be plainly acknowledged that Orihime is the only party that has expressed romantic interest, that does not mean that there is not something substantive between Ichigo and Rukia

.

The key word is that she was lonely.....that doesn't really hold true now. . But other than that, I thought you made some great points about Rukia....especially about the importance of Kaien to her.

[HayashiTakara]

Despite how sad you're trying to make Rukia's childhood sound, a slum child is the norm in Soul Society, and in fact she was quite happy, until she was adopted into the Kuchiki family, thats when she started feeling "lonely" as she felt out of place. And the fact that Renji, the only person she cared about at the time, was the one who pushed her to accept the adoption.

Whether you like it or not, everything goes back to Kaein when it comes to Rukia, its always been about Kaein. Its only until recently that she finally resolved her internal conflict dealing with Kaein, even still we're not sure as to whether or not its completely done with as the manga hasn't gotten past her laying in a pool of her own blood.

Ichigo is not that private, he's not mister mystery here. If he feels something he expresses it passionately. Everything Ichigo says and do is with passion, thats not the attribute of someone who is "private".

Ichigo didn't introduce her to anyone, she forced herself into his world, everything was merely circumstantial. Orihime, became friends with her on her own, Ichigo wasn't involved, Ishida hates shinigami, he targetted her on his own, Chad, only cause he's Ichigo's friend who got powers all of a sudden. Everything involving Rukia's relationships with the people around her are circumstantial, ichigo didn't go around trying to be mr. nice guy making friends for her. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Amirali]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Ichigo didn't introduce her to anyone, she forced herself into his world, everything was merely circumstantial. Orihime, became friends with her on her own, Ichigo wasn't involved, Ishida hates shinigami, he targetted her on his own, Chad, only cause he's Ichigo's friend who got powers all of a sudden. Everything involving Rukia's relationships with the people around her are circumstantial, ichigo didn't go around trying to be mr. nice guy making friends for her. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Actually, if anyone's to be thanked for Rukia's improved relationships, it's Aizen. Because he placed her life in peril, it forced Byakuya and Renji to realize the importance of their feelings for her. Without that kind of catalyst, they would probably never have swallowed their pride enough to approach Rukia in that way.

No, I don't seriously think Rukia should be sending Aizen thank you notes.......just that if one starts attributing everything on basis of circumstance, those are the kind of weird conclusions you'll get.

[HayashiTakara]

zOmG, Aizen x Rukia 4EvA!!!!

lol, you might start another crack pairing trend XD

[ShuiMei]

Yes, who wouldn't be happy to watch her friends die off? It may have been the norm but it doesn't make things pleasant. She didn't have a lovely time at the academy either, her and Renji were in separate classes and while his open personality made it easy for him to make friends, Rukia? Not so much.

You're not looking at the full picture, Kaien is only a part of it. Her inferiority complex didn't start with him, it began before that, probably when she was a student at the academy and Renji was placed in the advanced class while she struggled with swordsmanship. It built up again when she was adopted by Byakuya, pushed forward to graduate the academy (when she was clearly not read), did not seat in her division and made her feel unworthy of her adoptive family and name. That Byakuya was emotionally distant and uncommunicative did not help and then helped further perpetuate this idea that she was inferior and not worth very much. Indeed it's Kaien who tries to help Rukia find her worth again by treating her like a valuable division member and helping her train, it's just that when she's forced to kill him her self-worth totally goes down the drain and it's not until Ichigo saves her that she's forced to re-evaluate herself again. Anyway, that meanders from my point, which is that seeing as the roots for her inferiority and low self-worth began prior to her meeting with Kaien, clearly it has not always been about him.

Also, Ichigo not private? Sure he's abrasive, impulsive and passionate, but so what? So is Kenpachi, but it doesn't mean he's good at expressing his feelings and troubles. How many times have we seen Ichigo's back when he's trying to hide his emotions? God, Kubo does it all the time! Ichigo doesn't go around talking to people about what's on his mind and what's bothering him, people have to pry a bit in order for him to open up. We saw this with Rukia in regards to his mother in the first Memories in the Rain arc and again post-Soul Society when he was dejected after not being able to protect Chad and Orihime and wouldn't talk to anyone, walked around like an emopot. Emotions like anger and a fighting spirit flare easily from him, but other than that he's socially handicapped.

I'm not saying Ichigo directly helped Rukia establish her friendships, though he certainly helped Renji and Byakuya wake the hell up, but because of him her world opened up exponentially, just as Rukia gave Ichigo the means to protect and as a result, opened his world as well. The characters themselves recognize how much they've changed each other's lives, I'm just explaining how and in what ways.

[HayashiTakara]

Rukia's inferority complex was gone a long time ago, she surely didn't have it from episode one. Only when she was imprisoned awaiting trial and execution was when she started reflecting back on the past, her life with Kaein and then how its her fault that Ichigo is "dead", which is kinda stupid because if she didn't give him the powers, he would've been dead a lot sooner... so dead now? or dead later? oh well, lets not think on that... since it doesn't make much sense from a logical stand-point. She fell into a funk, as people usually do when facing a crisis. The rescue broke her from that funk, and brought her back to normal.

As seen in the current arc, Rukia was still brooding over Kaein, the only thing she can never forget, as he was the most important person in her life. If Kaein miraculously came back to life, she'll probably give him a BJ if he asked her to.

The way I see it, is that to Rukia, Kaein > Ichigo, any day of the week.

Perhaps its been too long since I've watched the earlier episodes of Bleach, but I don't recall her friends "dying", as far as I know you can't die as a spirit unless something kills you. Rukia and Renji were having a ball running around being trouble makers in the neighborhood, IIRC she wanted to go back to those days with Renji, when Rukia was started to feel out of place in the academy.

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Despite how sad you're trying to make Rukia's childhood sound, a slum child is the norm in Soul Society, and in fact she was quite happy, until she was adopted into the Kuchiki family, thats when she started feeling "lonely" as she felt out of place. And the fact that Renji, the only person she cared about at the time, was the one who pushed her to accept the adoption.

Whether you like it or not, everything goes back to Kaein when it comes to Rukia, its always been about Kaein. Its only until recently that she finally resolved her internal conflict dealing with Kaein, even still we're not sure as to whether or not its completely done with as the manga hasn't gotten past her laying in a pool of her own blood.

Ichigo is not that private, he's not mister mystery here. If he feels something he expresses it passionately. Everything Ichigo says and do is with passion, thats not the attribute of someone who is "private".

Ichigo didn't introduce her to anyone, she forced herself into his world, everything was merely circumstantial. Orihime, became friends with her on her own, Ichigo wasn't involved, Ishida hates shinigami, he targetted her on his own, Chad, only cause he's Ichigo's friend who got powers all of a sudden. Everything involving Rukia's relationships with the people around her are circumstantial, ichigo didn't go around trying to be mr. nice guy making friends for her. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Your whole concept of Bleach is screwed. Ishida targeted Ichigo...Not Rukia. Not matter the circumstances...it was because of Ichigo that Rukia's life changed and vice versa...

You are just saying random stuff...to try and prove your case...and none of it's true.

@KYU...Matsu said they were both important yes...but she also said it fine that Orihime couldn't be to Ichigo what Rukia is ..so basically she was saying

.Even if Orihime can't be to Ichigo what Rukia is. Thats okay because she can still support him as a FRIEND. But jealousy is a normal human emotion but what makes Orihime so cool is the fact that she can admit it...but she still likes Rukia and is still friends instead becoming a lying, scheming, bitter harpy that lashes out every time she sees her.

It did not mean...They are eqaul or Orihime has a chance. It means she is not and doesn't that was the point of that whole scene.

*Pops back out*

[HayashiTakara]

Random? Hardly, you're the one with the Rukia glasses on, interpretating everything to benefit your own fanatism.

[BleachOD]

For the last time...I have Ichigo glasses on and my fanaticism is about him. How many times must I say that.?!

Secondly...I only use FACTS. You just make up random things and swear it's truth...And the only time you answer me...Is when you think you can...Most time you can't and use my long posts as an excuse. (Sinta's is just as long yet you answer his)Except you were wrong those times too...So I don't know why you bothered

You can like Orihime...and Ichigo as a couple But don't just make shit up...or twist them to give Orihime a better case

You keep saying I am interpreting it to my own benift by like Sinta said "Just saying I am wrong without showing proof to indicate that I am wrong....Just makes you look silly" His words not mine...but they apply to you as well.

[ShuiMei]

Gone a long time ago? Since when? Rukia's all about false bravado and putting on faces of confidence and arrogance, especially when it comes to Ichigo. Our initial impression of her certainly isn't one of someone who is insecure in her self-worth, but we're not supposed to find out these things right away; moreover as a shinigami she shouldn't be showing such weakness anyway, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

She has no need to feel inferior and worthless when she meets Ichigo, he's a stupid human, she's a shinigami, but when she's taken back to Soul Society we see a completely different side of Rukia, one that doesn't value herself and thinks of herself as weak and unworthy of saving. That vulnerability is rooted in her past experiences, it doesn't just go away, it can certainly be pushed aside, especially should the situation require her to stand strong, as she did to the best of her ability in the living world, but it's always been there. We saw traces of it in the Memories in the Rain arc, she's not strong and abrasive all the time, she can be weak and vulnerable as well, and I think Kaien just embodies so much of what negative feelings Rukia has towards herself.

Thankfully, she's been trying to move on from her guilt over Kaien's death, and her relationship with Byakuya, which long caused her to feel unworthy and weak has improved exponentially. She even learns that she didn't get seated as an officer because Byakuya asked that she not be placed in order to protect her, not that she lacked the ability, so any feelings of inadequacy that she felt from not being able to get a seat can be quashed. With that, one should recognize that these burdensome feelings didn't just go away, that they take time and effort to heal.

Honestly I love Rukia and Kaien's relationship but I think Ichigo's relationship with Rukia is much stronger due to the fact it's development, understanding and supportiveness is more mutual and equal. I think both relationships are lovely though and they both have been important to the shaping of her character.

I don't recall how her friends died, I only remember them stating that the 78th District was a particularly hard place to survive, especially for a bunch of kids, and then recall the image of Renji and Rukia standing infront of their graves deciding to go enter the shinigami academy.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

@KYU...Matsu said they were both important yes...but she also said it fine that Orihime couldn't be to Ichigo what Rukia is

Matsumoto simply said that things were fine as they were. To that comment you added "...that Orihime couldn't be to Ichigo what Rukia is". That's your own interpretation. I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong given that the meaning of this statement is vague. But still, those aren't the words Matsumoto used.

Originally Posted by ShuiMei

Gone a long time ago? Since when? Rukia's all about false bravado and putting on faces of confidence and arrogance, especially when it comes to Ichigo. Our initial impression of her certainly isn't one of someone who is insecure in her self-worth, but we're not supposed to find out these things right away; moreover as a shinigami she shouldn't be showing such weakness anyway, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

I think your view on Rukia's character is pretty good. Deep down, she does seem to be a very vulnerable person but puts up a strong exterior to hide this. In that way, Rukia's situation seems to be somewhat the polar opposite to Orihime's. Orihime is someone who mostly displayed her vulnerability and only very rarely showed her strength. But that has changed a little. Not to shift discussion away from Rukia, but if SS arc was used to demonstrate Rukia's vulnerability, then HM arc could be used to show Orihime's strength with the basis of that change revolving around Ichigo. Really, I think there is an intentional symmetry between the character development of the two girls, despite them being vastly different people.

[corporeality]

Originally Posted by Hellychan

I'm sorry but you're wrong here: Ichigo said it himself (he was thinking it, Chapter 181, Page 19): "Thank you Rukia. Thanks to you...I think the rain...has stopped."

Thank for pointing that out. While I do remember the scene, I was focusing more on the verbatim saying of "changed the world," which only Orihime voiced, so I neglected to included that.

It's not like Ichigo didn't want to save Rukia immediately, it's just that reasonable people like Uruhara and Yoruichi told him that, in the condition he was at that time, he stood no chance against the captains. Plus there was a delay before Rukia's execution, so he had the time to train in order to save her.

Remember after the bridge scene, when Ichigo was so mad at Yoruichi for not letting him fight Byakuya. She knew Ichigo couldn't beat him yet, hence why she took Ichigo away. Even just after that night Rukia was taken back to Soul Society, Ichigo wanted to go right away to SS, but Uruhara knocked some sense into him.

I'm not saying Ichigo didn't want to save Rukia, only that his desperation now is noticeably different. You pointed it out yourself. Urahara and Yoruichi told him he wasn't ready and he listened like a good boy, completing his training without complaint. He needed people like Urahara and Yoruichi then because at that time, Ichigo had been unbeatable. He didn't think that there were people out there who could hand his ass to him on a platter. His scene with Byakuya showed this very well. He was confident in his skills to the point of arrogance.

In this instance, though, Ichigo knows his strengths and his weaknesses and he knows how strong his opponents are. It hasn't been that long since his spectacular defeat against Grimmjow and it is a defeat for him, considering what he said in response to Renji pointing out his "win". He knows 11 seconds aren't enough to storm HM but he does so anyway. Grimmjow is only the 6th from the top and Ichigo was already owned that badly. What he needed at that time was to master his untapped Hollow-side but he leaves that behind. He goes to save Orihime from what he deems is her being in danger, despite not really knowing the situation and despite Aizen, Ulquiorra and whoever else planning to make her look like a traitor. Considering he's done all these before, considering he should know the do's and don't's already, Ichigo is acting pretty darn reckless. And since he's been shown to be quite pragmatic when it counts, this is a very noticeable move for him.

Originally Posted by BleachOD

@ Corpreal Yes I can elaborate... and I will. Just not now.

I see. Thank you for your time, then. When you have the time, please elaborate as you wish. I'm interested in knowing how you came up with your conclusion.

Why is everyone making such a big deal of what Matsumoto said?

One poster brought it up when talking about the validity of Ulquiorra's words. Matsumoto's words, in contrast to Ulquiorra's, are trustworthy because she is presented as a trustworthy speaker, not someone who needs to like to get a desired outcome. That scene is a big deal because Matsumoto is basically an objective observer, so Kubo can use her to voice what he wants the readers to know.

Originally Posted by DjBlueBounce

Orihime's affection for Ichigo strikes me as being some sort of one-sided schoolgirl crush

If you don't mind my asking, may I ask up to what point of the series you are? I'm interested in knowing how you came to the thought that Orihime's affections were some sort of schoolgirl crush only.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by BleachOD

Your whole concept of Bleach is screwed. Ishida targeted Ichigo...Not Rukia. Not matter the circumstances...it was because of Ichigo that Rukia's life changed and vice versa...

You are just saying random stuff...to try and prove your case...and none of it's true.

@KYU...Matsu said they were both important yes...but she also said it fine that Orihime couldn't be to Ichigo what Rukia is ..so basically she was saying

You've said quite a few random things with no way to back them up yourself.


No she didn't. that was one of the worst translated chapters. the most correct translation was matsu said Ichigo is a child he won't get anywhere with out the help of both Rukia and orihime and she was impressed that Orihime was dealing with her envy instead of running from it. there was little to no hint of relationship importance at all other then Orihime was jealous
http://bleachasylum.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=40
http://bleachasylum.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=20

Originally Posted by BleachOD

For the last time...I have Ichigo glasses on and my fanaticism is about him. How many times must I say that.?!

Secondly...I only use FACTS. You just make up random things and swear it's truth...And the only time you answer me...Is when you think you can...Most time you can't and use my long posts as an excuse. (Sinta's is just as long yet you answer his)Except you were wrong those times too...So I don't know why you bothered

You can like Orihime...and Ichigo as a couple But don't just make shit up...or twist them to give Orihime a better case

You keep saying I am interpreting it to my own benift by like Sinta said "Just saying I am wrong without showing proof to indicate that I am wrong....Just makes you look silly" His words not mine...but they apply to you as well.

Sorry but you have used way too many opinions and called them facts such as:

Ichigo is saving Inoue out of DUTY and with Rukia it was motivated by DESIRE

Not only is it an opinion but it is clearly false

I am not fanatical...I am just right

If that were true then maybe you could produce evedance that doesn't fall apart by just glanceing at it.

[HayashiTakara]

Thank you for saving me the trouble of pointing that out Kagato

[Sinta]

Happy Monday everyone,

Lucifer
I’m not going to answer everything in your post as I don’t think most of it was relevant to our original topic. You also assume I say alot of things when i don't. I will take it slow however so I don’t miss anything.

Well, i am referring to the very fact that you included on how Rukia is changing Ichigo's life and Orihime didnt. I was simply pointing out on how mentioning who changed whose life is not important in this context because there is so much more to explore than just that. You placed a lot of emphasis on how equality meant when it comes to whether Ichigo actually had any romantic interest in any of the girls. Well, i pretty much had said that a meaningful relationship will not necessarily deliver a romance.

you are again, under the assumption that Orihime needed to do things (which I have the liberty to not know what) in order to be worthy of Ichigo. Note these from you:

Inoue has nothing to compare to what rukia did ...
how could Inoue gain equal status/position with Ichigo when she has done so little for him...
it would be odd to imply she is or could being a even playing ground....

*the last line is an implication of a girlfight, which i will not touch at all

You are having hard time directing your arguments I think. No one discussed who was “worthy” of Ichigo. We were discussing status at a given time in the story. And yes, I’m sorry assuming one character has equal status with another character when there is nothing to base it on seems silly to me. (Especially at the point in the manga we were discussing) You can say that inoue is equal or potentially equal to rukia in ichigo’s heart, as a possibility but thats all it is a possibility, it doesn’t make it likely or true. Just about anything is a possibility as long as you aren’t dead (or in this case the manga it hasn't ended). But action (and words) determines the probability of possibility and there are very few actions (or words) that increase inoue’s probability as a love interest.

Well, you are basing your arguments based on how your views on love is like. True each one is entitled to his own opinions, but will opinions matter in this thing call love? True that perhaps some may think that equality heightens a playing ground - but is it necessary? Your answer may be yes, but please take into account that this is simply an assumption of a person on how love should be. To base your arguments on an assumption is an act of arrogance because it's imposing a forced agreement in a consensus in which many will dispute on - especially love. It is more or less you saying, in simple words, "love meant equality, and this does not apply to Ichigo and Orihime, so they will never be in love". Doing this not only impose your self-defined opinions on love to other people, but also had downplayed humanity's greatest theme which is tirelessly immortalized in literature for centuries.

You and I were never talking about love. SO all this would be irrelevant to our discussion. Those quotes were talking about ichigo’s state of mind at the time of Inoue’s outburst in 198, nothing more, nothing less.

But on the subject of love, I push my definition on no one, I can’t force anyone to believe the way I do. I make my arguments just like anyone else. People are welcome to believe what they may. But, I do believe they are in love, and would argue such (I HAVE NOT DONE SO WITH YOU YET) but, if you believe otherwise your post makes it difficult for you to argue that way as you seem unwilling to define your concept of love and defend it. Is inoue as a possibility for Ichigo the only position you have? How do you know if she's a possibility you aren't willing to define love? How do you know if inoue really even loves ichigo if you aren't willing to define it? Does just saying you are in love make you in love? You can't go further without some interpretation and application. This post adds nothing to discussion, saying people can’t apply their understanding to a given situation completely displaces our discussion and would kill off the thread. Its also not true. I’m really not sure why you wrote this in the first place. I don’t know if you are trying to be poetic but stop accusing people of things and lets get down to the debate. If you think Inoue and ichigo are the most likely (that is the thing we are debating, now at least) then, give me an analysis saying such. If not, then i don't know that we have much more to talk about as I don't know where our conversation could go.

Well, you are basing your arguments based on how your views on love is like. True each one is entitled to his own opinions, but will opinions matter in this thing call love? True that perhaps some may think that equality heightens a playing ground - but is it necessary? Your answer may be yes, but please take into account that this is simply an assumption of a person on how love should be. To base your arguments on an assumption is an act of arrogance because it's imposing a forced agreement in a consensus in which many will dispute on - especially love. It is more or less you saying, in simple words, "love meant equality, and this does not apply to Ichigo and Orihime, so they will never be in love". Doing this not only impose your self-defined opinions on love to other people, but also had downplayed humanity's greatest theme which is tirelessly immortalized in literature for centuries.

I have made it clear that NONE of this is relevant to what we were discussing, but since you took the time to write. I will actually read it and try somehow to fit it into our discussion.

Opinions do matter in love, especially Kubo’s opinion, as he’s the one writing. I think the opinion I’ve developed towards Bleach, and ichigo and rukia interactions is what he’s trying to tell me and that is, that Ichigo and Rukia are in fact in love and will eventually get together. Maybe I’m wrong and maybe I’m right, but as long as the story remains unfinished we won’t know. Maybe in the next chapter ichigo, inoue or rukia will do something to make me feel different but know this. Bleach isn’t a abstract, it’s a story, a story that is trying lead us on an adventure into a different world. People do, say and act for a reason. I make arguments based on that. What are you doing?

On the issue of equality, where does your real question lie? You asked if its necessary. Do you mean is it necessary that Ichigo and inoue be equal in their relationship? (the answer would be no, there are plenty of relationship’s that are not.) Or are asking whether Inoue and Rukia need to be equal in the terms of relationship potential or probability? The answer is yes as this is the simple question people ask. Who is more likely given their interactions currently shown? But back up, I think we are getting bogged down in the abstract and its distracting us from the real issues. So lets simplify, I ask this question. If Ichigo and Rukia are so important to each why would he fall in love with inoue? Don’t misunderstand, we aren't saying it’s a given, people however see their depth and development ask why this wouldn’t lead to love. it seems the most likely conclusion. Take the discussion in another direction. Why would feelings between inoue and ichigo develop when they don’t have a very close relationship? Where would his interest come from when he has thus far shown none? There are the questions that many people ask and none of your arguments address.

Thus, there is indeed no necessity for any emulation of any kind to be done by Orihime to have her be level in the playing ground. Doing that (and i mean basing every other relationship on a "bond" which you think is the most concrete), and assuming that Kubo will do the same is actually undermining the credibility of the manga in being diverse in character designs, relationships and plots. I agree that Orihime may not had affected Ichigo in manners Rukia would/had - but that doesnt rule her out from the list simply because there is no way in comprehending love, more so defining love as IchiRuki relationship.

This thing called “love” is suppose to coming from a single individual correct? So if you want to ask the question who is the most likely that Ichigo love’s (as of right) I would say Rukia, they have the history, the foundation and many other things in their favor. (I won’t list them) Now inoue, if you believe that inoue is the most likely then make argument for an eventual romantic pairing, but this post doesn’t do anything for you. People in this thread are discussing the possibilities. I rule out nothing as a possibility but a relationship between two people with no recognizable reason as to why they entered into that relationship is bad story telling and totally contrary to life. Since when do people fall in love for no reason? You say that Inoue doesn’t have to do anything? If she doesn’t have to do anything then how do you justify a relationship with Ichigo? That just doesn’t make any sense. The manga chapters represent history, history of the bleach story. There is nothing in that history to show me that inoue could be loved by ichigo. There is also nothing in the back story proceeding bleach to show me that they have an unseen connection to fall back. Kubo is not going to get them together without explaining to us. So how will he justify it? If you disagree, show me. That’s why were here are we not?

How would basing a potential relationship on a bond undermine the manga? Shouldn't relationships be based on bonds and the feelings we develop from those bonds? If they aren’t, what are relationships based on?

I agree that Orihime may not had affected Ichigo in manners Rukia would/had

if you agree on the profound affect that Rukia has on Ichigo then why don’t you stipulate the most likely outcome of their growing affection?

You are playing safe.

Of course I'm playing it safe. You don't stare in the face of good evidence and not agree with it unless there is better contrary evidence. Kubo started this a certain way and seems to me to be following similar patterns. I also see no contrary evidence that he intents to do different.

Originally Posted by corporeality

How convenient of Ichigo to be hypocritical at that specific point in time, with no lead-up, no foreshadowing to the event, and with only a sentence that can go either way as proof. No, there isn't anything that says Ichigo can't be hypocritical, but you're using one SENTENCE and disregarding a LOT of action to prove this reading of yours. Considering you've spent a great deal of time being hell-bent on pointing out that Ichigo's actions and not his words should be what readers look at (so we can see the deeper picutre), can't you see how hypocritical you're being?

Convenient or not the argument still stands. The language is very clear, anyone with any kind of English background would say so. He expressed doubt there isn’t anything in those pages that says otherwise. Ignoring what he said and then Ulq statement just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean you can re-invent the meaning of the phrase. Now if there is something wrong with translation that is a different story, as far as I know that is what he says and what he says is an expression of doubt. Not belief but doubt.

What are all these other actions that says that ichigo believes that inoue didn’t go on her own? He expressed outrage and he’s implusive that doesn’t mean he doesn’t harbor doubt. I also have never said ignore words you silly man, when have I said that? I said that words, actions and circumstances have to taken into account, but that action speaks louder then words. Ichigo came to inoue because he believes she is innocence but it doesn't mean he doesn't have doubts.

Also? Protecting people without allowing them to protect him in turn is not hypocritical. I'm sure some people can explain their stands, but Ichigo's backstory DOES already provide an explanation for his attitude. It's even in the manga. I'm pretty sure it's considered canon.

How does making people accept your protection and not allow others to protect you (or fight along side) you not hypocritical? You should go look up the definition of the words as it seem here you don’t know the meaning. And his back story doesn’t justify his behavior. You are making excuses.

So, basically, you're comparing the Byakuya/Ichigo and the Grimjow/Ichigo fights based on what Byakuya and Grimmjow said and how Ichigo reacted to that? So. You're inferring things based on text without taking into consideration the differences in situation, the pre-existing relationship between Byakuya and Rukia and the lack, thereof, between Grimmjow and Orihime, even the simple differences in Byakuya and Grimmjow obivous personalities. So basically, you're trying to infer things without context? If you are, good luck inferring then.

You accuse me of lot stuff have you noticed that?

Of course circumstances are important, but asking what someone could have said, what another person could have answered, then making arguments based on that is not important or relevant to the conversation. It is pure speculation. It just not information that we have or could can really guess at. I think its too far removed to take the time to entertain arguments based on them. That’s what my original argument was referring to. I thought that was very clear. Did you actual read the whole post? This is what i said.

Who cares what Byukuya could have said or how Ichigo could have answered. Its totally pointless to conjecture at this point. The answer is in kubo's head and theres no way we could get to that information. We can only compare what Ichigo/Byukuya did say and why, to what Ichigo/Grimm did say and why. What matters is what he did say and the reasonable inferences we can make from those. The tone and reasons for the fights appear totally different and so far removed from the original point that i'm not sure why you brought it up in the first place. I haven’t done a thorough examination of Byukuya and Grimm fights. Maybe I will do that but I didn’t bring it up in the first place. So if you wish we can just drop it.

Read the whole post next time; its very irriating to have re-explain things a half dozen times.

Because unlike Ulquiorra, Rangiku isn't an enemy, will get nothing from playing mind games and actually is familiar with Ichigo, Orihime AND Rukia? Because we've never been given an instance to think we should ever doubt Rangiku? Because she wasn't antagonizing Orihime during their scenes? I don't know. I'm sure people have their explanations, but really.

Of course we should doubt Rangiku, especially if people try to attach the meaning that many do. How well does she know what ichigo, rukia and inoue need? Is she physic? You say we have no reason to doubt. I say there isn’t any reason to believe in her credibility except in the case of a general friendly admonishment. Furthermore, just because Ulq is an enemy doesn’t mean his observations are any less valid. His goal to was to manipulate SS into thinking one way and he did. Ichigo’s words were merely showed that he was successful.

Except Ichigo's own actions leading up to that statement.

What exactly in Ichigo’s behavior showed that he didn’t have any doubt? Coming to save inoue isn't an expression of absolute conviction, at least that i'm aware of.

Except of course, for the fact that Ichigo calls her Nakama, which is already "more than a friend" and "very special person" at the same time. Her status hasn't changed? There's nothing to indicate she's important? Unlike with Rukia, where Ichigo completes his training, all his training, even though he knows of her state of being, he leaves his Vaizord training to rescue Orihime at the earliest possible time, while at the same time, distancing himself from friends without second thought. Coupled with how owned he was in a previous fight, this spells "suicidal" right down to the last letter. He planned to go alone even when he already had experience fighting with trustworthy friends. He's just plain desperate.

EDIT; Nakama (仲間 or なかまin hirgana) means companion, partner, or associate and also the plural of these, so group or circle of friends. It's nothing more (or less) than that. I think you need to rethink your point, instead of trying to reinvent the meaning of words.

Again, you quote me but you don’t actual read my posts it seems. This is what I actually said was it not?

implying Inoue is equal with Rukia would imply her status is being changed. She had very little status to begin with and there is nothing to indicate that she has gain much during the SS arc. I do think she has gotten closer with ichigo, their relationship has changed, but as far as i can see there is nothing to indicate that Inoue's as become "more then a friend" or a" very special person".

I say they have gotten closer. Did you miss that line?

Ichigo’s circumstances when leaving in both arcs actually pretty similar, Ichigo knew he wasn’t as strong in both cases, he had just gotten owed by Byukuya in one case and Grimm in the other. He planned to go by himself both times and was reluctant to let his friends come with him both times. It sounds like you need to re-read the beginning of the SS arc if you didn’t know that. He didn’t know Inoue, Chad and Ishida were planning to come. There are some differences however, mind you ichigo wanted to SS before he was even healed. The only reason that he couldn’t is Urahara, you must have forgot that conversation. Furthermore compare his reactions. He didn’t express the despair at inoue’s departure like he did with Rukia. Nor did think anxiously about her. I’m sorry if you are trying to argue that Ichigo was more passionate about Inoue then Rukia you are going to have to do better then that.

Except people totally are.

I wasn’t, my conversation with Luicfer wasn’t on a finer point of relationship interactions.

[Lucifer-Angel]

Please calm down. Take a deep breath, again, and again, until you are rested.

You spent a lot of spaces denying what you did, while nobody is accusing you of anything at all. This is how it is pointless to, well, direct you elsewhere because you get off-topic, paranoid, then accuse people of things which you commit yourself. Now, here's for civilization.

Originally Posted by Sinta

You are having hard time directing your arguments I think. No one discussed who was “worthy” of Ichigo. We were discussing status at a given time in the story. And yes, I’m sorry assuming one character has equal status with another character when there is nothing to base it on seems silly to me. (Especially at the point in the manga we were discussing) You can say that inoue is equal or potentially equal to rukia in ichigo’s heart, as a possibility but thats all it is a possibility, it doesn’t make it likely or true. Just about anything is a possibility as long as you aren’t dead (or in this case the manga it hasn't ended). But action (and words) determines the probability of possibility and there are very few actions (or words) that increase inoue’s probability as a love interest.

It is funny how you accuse me of going off topic and yet the post of mine you quoted had everything you said about you comparing the two girls. You see, you point out something, i address it, you get angry and accuse me for doing something which you asked, then go back and do it in your post. See, you spoke of worth, I spoke of worth not being a key importance and told you why then you spoke on..Ever heard of repeated offences?

assuming one character has equal status with another character when there is nothing to base it on seems silly to me.

Yes, Sinta, your sentence here is an implication that to equal status is important, and yes, to address status is to address worth.

I'm sorry that my post were made in a way that you missed my point; but i was indeed addressing you're about making equality in status. I said that it wasn't an important criteria.

Originally Posted by Sinta

But on the subject of love, I push my definition on no one, I can’t force anyone to believe the way I do. I make my arguments just like anyone else. People are welcome to believe what they may. But, I do believe they are in love, and would argue such (I HAVE NOT DONE SO WITH YOU YET) but, if you believe otherwise your post makes it difficult for you to argue that way as you seem unwilling to define your concept of love and defend it. Is inoue as a possibility for Ichigo the only position you have? How do you know if she's a possibility you aren't willing to define love? How do you know if inoue really even loves ichigo if you aren't willing to define it? Does just saying you are in love make you in love? You can't go further without some interpretation and application. This post adds nothing to discussion, saying people can’t apply their understanding to a given situation completely displaces our discussion and would kill off the thread. Its also not true. I’m really not sure why you wrote this in the first place. I don’t know if you are trying to be poetic but stop accusing people of things and lets get down to the debate. If you think Inoue and ichigo are the most likely (that is the thing we are debating, now at least) then, give me an analysis saying such. If not, then i don't know that we have much more to talk about as I don't know where our conversation could go.

Yes, you did. Which is the very reason why you are denying it.

Why should you define what is love in the first place? You were purposely ignoring the arguments on how some are not in the belief that the relationship of Ichigo and Rukia meant that they are in love - and I humbly try to tell you that we are not in the same perimeter simply because we are not conforming to what you defined as love, namely IchiRuki. Now, even the scientist who are constantly studying human are not so sure on how two people could fall in love, why should be undermine them and say that we know what love is.

I wouldn't be as arrogant as to define what love is - it is definitely not our job. However, many people will agree that love in Bleach definitely not defined as IchiRuki.

Opinions do matter in love, especially Kubo’s opinion, as he’s the one writing. I think the opinion I’ve developed towards Bleach, and ichigo and rukia interactions is what he’s trying to tell me and that is, that Ichigo and Rukia are in fact in love and will eventually get together. Maybe I’m wrong and maybe I’m right, but as long as the story remains unfinished we won’t know. Maybe in the next chapter ichigo, inoue or rukia will do something to make me feel different but know this. Bleach isn’t a abstract, it’s a story, a story that is trying lead us on an adventure into a different world. People do, say and act for a reason. I make arguments based on that. What are you doing?

You mentioned the uncertainty of the manga's direction - exactly why we cannot be making claims that Ichigo and Rukia are in love with one another, and Ichigo wouldn't fall in love with Orihime. Funny you should spoke on opportunities to be proven wrong when you are determined on not believing that IchiHime happening.

On the issue of equality, where does your real question lie? You asked if its necessary. Do you mean is it necessary that Ichigo and inoue be equal in their relationship? (the answer would be no, there are plenty of relationship’s that are not.) Or are asking whether Inoue and Rukia need to be equal in the terms of relationship potential or probability? The answer is yes as this is the simple question people ask. Who is more likely given their interactions currently shown? But back up, I think we are getting bogged down in the abstract and its distracting us from the real issues.

So lets simplify, I ask this question. If Ichigo and Rukia are so important to each why would he fall in love with inoue? Don’t misunderstand, we aren't saying it’s a given, people however see their depth and development ask why this wouldn’t lead to love. it seems the most likely conclusion. Take the discussion in another direction. Why would feelings between inoue and ichigo develop when they don’t have a very close relationship? Where would his interest come from when he has thus far shown none? There are the questions that many people ask and none of your arguments address.

This paragraph is interesting. Which is why I broke it into two.

Thanks for realizing that Ichigo and Orihime needed not to be equal; but your credibility spoke for itself in the second part. After a rational first part, you said that close relationship in Ichigo-Rukia relationship meant that they will likely fall in love.

Ever heard of love at first sight?

My point is that bonds and love may be related, but not necessarily interlinked. You mention that Ichigo and Rukia have a great bond, true. However, what is the basis to mention that Ichigo and Orihime do not share a great bond too? You are again, doing what you denied, measuring up every relationship to Ichigo-Rukia bond. Thus, why would feelings not surface even if they do not share the same bond as Ichigo and Rukia. There are many ways in which you probably had insulted Kubo-sensei's credibility just by saying that IchiRuki meant love, and this is one instance. There are many types of relationship, and to say that Kubo-sensei is completely incapable of exploring someway other than IchiRuki is not a good thing to say about his calibre.

Likewise, let me say that close bonds between two person (regardless of gender) is not an indication of instant romance defined; to which the same way that apparent unfamiliarity does not spell and definite impossibility of romance. See why you impose your own definition of love again and again?

To which asked on how could Ichigo shown interest in Orihime when he had thus far shown none, I believe that many could answer you better; or you may just read the HM arc again. I am just a non-believer in IchiRuki ever happening, but that doesn't mean I'm talking on IchiHime happening - again, you forget that not everybody thinks that romance will prevail at all.

Since when do people fall in love for no reason? You say that Inoue doesn’t have to do anything? If she doesn’t have to do anything then how do you justify a relationship with Ichigo? That just doesn’t make any sense. The manga chapters represent history, history of the bleach story. There is nothing in that history to show me that inoue could be loved by ichigo. There is also nothing in the back story proceeding bleach to show me that they have an unseen connection to fall back. Kubo is not going to get them together without explaining to us. So how will he justify it? If you disagree, show me. That’s why were here are we not?

Since when do people need a reason to fall in love? Since you are obviously lagging behind, try reading chapter 2-7, chapters 192-196, and the entire HM arc again. You are obviously not familiar with the story other than Ichigo-Rukia relationship.

if you agree on the profound affect that Rukia has on Ichigo then why don’t you stipulate the most likely outcome of their growing affection?

If any, most here will ask on why don't you stipulate the most likely outcome of the growing affection between Ichigo and Orihime?

Of course I'm playing it safe. You don't stare in the face of good evidence and not agree with it unless there is better contrary evidence. Kubo started this a certain way and seems to me to be following similar patterns. I also see no contrary evidence that he intents to do different.

Ohh, you have not read the pilot chapter.

Ooh, there wasn't romance in SS arc, and it didn't end in "I love you Rukia" and so by your logic, it never will happen.

He didn’t express the despair at inoue’s departure like he did with Rukia. Nor did think anxiously about her. I’m sorry if you are trying to argue that Ichigo was more passionate about Inoue then Rukia you are going to have to do better then that.

Not addressed to me but hey.

Take a look at these:
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/238/19/

Preferably the entire chapter. Then you tell us that he wasn't anxious. The accusations of "not reading the manga" seemed to go back to you.

I wasn’t, my conversation with Luicfer wasn’t on a finer point of relationship interactions.

Oh, so you are having trouble conversing with me? I thought we are just having a healthy disagreement, and thought that it wouldn't make us mortal enemies, but hey, looked like I made a mistake.

[DjBlueBounce]

Whoa people do post a lot on this thread... I barely even left for more than a few hours... But yeah, I am only as far as soul society, Hayashi, but sometimes when you make predictions for future developments the begginning is the most important because no matter what happens Bleach will eventually have to come full circle. It is the fundamental basis upon which every single story is told and Bleach began with Ichigo meeting Rukia and I still see that right now with Ichigo risking his life to save Rukia whereas Orihime is just hanging around. But if I am missing something of the grander picture please enlighten me in a positive manner, there is no need to bash a novice.

[HayashiTakara]

Originally Posted by DjBlueBounce

Whoa people do post a lot on this thread... I barely even left for more than a few hours... But yeah, I am only as far as soul society, Hayashi, but sometimes when you make predictions for future developments the begginning is the most important because no matter what happens Bleach will eventually have to come full circle. It is the fundamental basis upon which every single story is told and Bleach began with Ichigo meeting Rukia and I still see that right now with Ichigo risking his life to save Rukia whereas Orihime is just hanging around. But if I am missing something of the grander picture please enlighten me in a positive manner, there is no need to bash a novice.

Ah ok, well, just be warned it'll be some spoilers to you since you havent gotten past the SS arc yet. After the arc, Inoue becomes the highlighted female of the series. It virtually became all about her love for Ichigo more or less. And the decisions she has to make, In the beginning Ichigo becomes severly depressed over not being able to protect inoue, as she got hurt really bad in their first confrontation with the Arrancar, he eventually got better. Lots of stuff happening, concerning Inoue's internal conflicts about her worth to the group as well as her feelings for Ichigo, eventually she leaves with the enemies to buy everyone enough time to prepare for the upcoming war with the Arrancars. Inoue was allowed to say goodbye to one person only and is not allowed to let him/her know that she left, and the person she chose to say goodbye to was Ichigo in without a doubt the most touching scene in Bleach to date.

Inoue became suspect of betraying Soul Society but that enraged Ichigo, Ichigo decides to go against orders and all better judgement that he was no where near ready to face the dangers that lies ahead in HM. to save Inoue alone. Later Ichigo found out that Rukia has been "killed" he decided to go save her, ignoring the enemy, but the enemy provoked him by saying he was the reason Inoue came to HM, which angered Ichigo in an instant, ignoring Rukia's flight, for Inoue.

I'll stop there since this is where the anime stops. I wont go further into the manga.

[asam_laksa]

EDIT; Nakama (仲間 or なかまin hirgana) means companion, partner, or associate and also the plural of these, so group or circle of friends. It's nothing more (or less) than that. I think you need to rethink your point, instead of trying to reinvent the meaning of words.

I ask a question to all you guys.
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/270/11/
http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/270/12/
Ulquiorra asked Ichigo why Ichigo wasn't trying to kill Ulquiorra after Ulquiorra had goaded him with Rukia's death, (not Chad's death). Ichigo answered that because he (Ulquiorra) had not harmed his (Ichigo) nakama.

Question::
In this case, would it not be a clear indication from Ichigo that Rukia is grouped together with his nakama?

In another word, has Ichigo said that Rukia was his nakama here?

Unless you are going to tell me that Rukia was not in his mind, hence he didn't mean as in Rukia his nakama.....but others minus Rukia as his nakama?


Bleach Heat The Soul 5 is a computer game; latest Bleach game that revolved around during the time Orihime is kidnapped and imprisoned in Huenco Mundo.

This is the official character profile for Kurosaki Ichigo in it's website(Bleach Heat The Soul 5)

Spoiler for screen cap:

There, Orihime is described no longer as Ichigo's classmate, or Ichigo's nakama.

She's called as Ichigo's shinyuu 親友.

If you were to look carefully the word 親友 (shinyuu) were next to Inoue Orihime's name 井上織姫，as in 親友井上織姫 (second line sentence).

The meaning of shinyuu is down below.....
http://spencer.blackmarket.net/dic_w...l.asp?id=99176
it means "close friend, bosom (old, intimate) friend, buddy, crony, chum".....better than the word 'nakama'

Quoted from this website>>
http://www.krunk4ever.com/blog/2006/...asoline-prices

Quote:
So it appears, that 親友 (shinyuu) refers to a friendship with a stronger bond than 仲間 (nakama) which is someone you’re already willing to die for. Then again, I could be pulling this out from my ***** since this is the 1st time I’ve heard it.

Sinta, You can say that it's not from the manga sources, hence you don't, or should I say, WILL NOT TAKE it as an authoritative source......but why should someone write down shinyuu to describe how Orihime is to Ichigo, unless

a) These people, who developed the games just as the animation is being told by Kubo Tite to write it as such,
b) These people read different version of Bleach in compared to you guys?
c) Or maybe.....there's something there that they(Ichigo and Orihime) didn't show, but it's there, Ichigo doesn't show it, but the animators, who equally read the same ones know that it is there; Ichigo --->Orihime?

Originally Posted by DjBlueBounce

Whoa... who ever knew there would be THIS much debate around this Ichi/Ruki and Ichi/Ori subject.... Makes for an interesting read.

I only very recently started to watch Bleach but I have been completely consumed by this series... the only reason of which is the relationships this anime provides the readers. Even though I was only a novice, I knew right off the bat that this Ichi/Ruki relationship was nothing ordinary... It was a relationship that existed on a level that no one else could enter. I knew their relationship was the core of what this anime series is based upon and I could extrapolate that to formulate a reasoning for their possible future together and the conclusion of Bleach. Although doesn't seem to be a very romantic anime series, it will eventually be forced to undertake some elements of it to satisfy the audience. The writers for Bleach know they must provide some sort of emotional progress in return for the investment that the viewers have provided for their show. Bleach is a extremely popular franchise around the world and its conclusion is indeed highly anticipated but I know for reasons of audience entertainment that it will end happily and no with a cliffhanger. After all, who concludes with a cliffhanger?

So, now that we know it will end decisively, all we need to decide now is which girl Ichigo will end up with... and I am confident enough to say Rukia simply cause it makes sense on many different levels. If we look at the series as a whole, the feelings between Ichigo and Rukia have been the impetus for Bleach's development. As much as the possibility of a Ichigo/Ori pairing excites some people, it is very unlikely in my view because of how close Rukia is to Ichigo. The entire franchise began with Ichigo and Rukia and it makes sense it will conclude in a similar fashion. I mean just look at the kind of romantic emotions Orihime and Rukia exhibit towards Ichigo! Orihime's affection for Ichigo strikes me as being some sort of one-sided schoolgirl crush while Rukia's affection is grounded in mutual understanding, respect, and gratitude. The latter makes a much better environment for the development of a meaningful relaitonship.

Even if we look at what Rukia and Orihime ideologically represent we can tell that Ichigo is headed towards Rukia's arms eventually. Rukia is that lonely rogue girl with dark side who is torn between her affection for Ichigo and her grief at having involved him in her world while Orihime is a housewife-ish type school girl who is always kind, gentle, and caring. Given Ichigo's background and personality, it makes more sense he paired up with Rukia. It would be the classic anime Romeo-Juliet ensemble! It would throw off the bonds of realistic mediocrity that separates them and all of us... Their union would bridge the gap between two worlds and transcend itself beyond just being anime... It would carry itself to our entire society and tell us "yes, it is possible to look beyind the obvious and find that elusive sense of meaning" just cause Orihime is in Ichigo's class, has the same hair color, and really likes him, the fact is there is no meaningful bilateral affection. That is why Ichi/Ruki should belong together and will come together.

This is a pretty disorganized rant, but this is my take on what this topic is all about.

Now my disorganized rant.....this is my take on this topic. Personally I think all of it.....she is better than the other one, because she's more beautiful, she's more matured, she's more lonely, she's more sacrificial, she's more matured, she's more agressive, she's more passive, she's more independant, she's less whiny, she adds chemistry, she's so different.....hence Kubo Tite IS SURE GOING TO PAIR UP HER WITH HIM....are all craps.

Every positive / negative descriptions about certain Bleach female character, (or male character in my case) in compared to the others.....fans' strongly biased opinions regardless how systematic and eloquently you say in that long, long essay.......are just craps

Do you personally think that Kubo Tite accentuate certain character's behaviours(weak / strong points) is going to be the reasons why Kubo Tite is heading towards certain pairing?

Ichigo isn't the prize male bull that 'every Bleach female girls needs to compete in every aspect' in order to win his love. For all I know, Ichigo might end up with no one, or maybe his other classmates(male/female).

Sinta, until you can come out with a speculated storyline that includes fightings scenes, weapons, tactics and other Bleach characters( eg Hitsugaya, Aizen, Ichimaru, Soi Fon, Yoruichi, Urahara, Vaizards, etc) then whatever stuffs that revolves around Ichigo and Rukia or Ichigo and Orihime are just a pigment of fandom dream and imagination.

edit:: Unless of course, if the story ends abruptly

[King87]

I am new to this so stay with me a little bit. 1st of all I see this topic is causing malice in some people and I will like to say its not that serious. Moving on! I don't know who Ichigo will end up, none of us knows, so I can not get mad at others opinions about the storyline. I'm confused. In episode 17 Urahara states "if you disire with all your heart to save rukia....The power of love is greater than steel." Later in that coversation they show rukia walking away and ichigo next statement is"I felt like....the rain had stopped. It gets confusing when Ganju ask him if rukia is important to him and he says no. After that and the rest of the ss arc ichigo kept repeating how he owed her and nothing more. In episode 16 rukia states feelings which will become shackles....feelings of closeness....stated next by "me and ichigo are just friends."In episode 30 rukia goes into further details of how close she felt ichigo and herself was by stating how ichigo was someone she could trust"completely". This still does not make more than friends tho.In episodes 8 and 9 when the shinigami came to see what was up with rukia, he was going to go back to soul society saying that " I ain't crazy enough to break up a couple and...rukia has reached that age" she tells him not too say that. The interesting thing was she did not tell him what he was suggesting was wrong. Still it is no evidence for a relationship greater than friendship between them. Many people outside of them too think they are a couple in the 1st sixty something episodes of bleach. Rukia once denied it and Ichigo states" If I care what people said I would have dyed my hair black." With Orihime and ichigo the relationship has grown but there is no dialogue between them or speculators to suggest anything more. What I mean by that is there is no one in the bleach community who look at them two and say what they might think between Ichigo and rukia. Again I am not suggesting one over the other, this is just the facts. In my opinion both ichigo and rukia, ichigo and orihime has had moments who no words were said but you felt more than friendship. So even though I have a favorite I would like to see, there is no evidence for either romance right now.sorry guys.