True Tears - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[HayashiTakara]

Yeah I think this is the first episode that Hiromi didn't piss me off, lol.

3 episodes is A LOT if you really think about it... especially considering that for all intents and purposes both the main guy and girl have finally realized eachothers feelings... and 3 episodes to dump someone is a bit too long, in that time frame something major can happen.

[UPR]

Originally Posted by HayashiTakara

Yeah I think this is the first episode that Hiromi didn't piss me off, lol.

3 episodes is A LOT if you really think about it... especially considering that for all intents and purposes both the main guy and girl have finally realized eachothers feelings... and 3 episodes to dump someone is a bit too long, in that time frame something major can happen.

True. But also absolutly nothing can also happen until the end where the final pairing get's together.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

@vio5555
Sympathizing with characters is highly dependent on how much you can see of yourself within them (or, more importantly, vice versa), as well as your own experiences, your own relationships, and your own personality. Chiaki in Nodame Cantabile is a character I really heavily sympathize with purely because there are a lot of aspects to his personality that mirror my own. A counter example I remember happened one time when I was watching the film "In The Bedroom" with my mother.

Spoiler for In The Bedroom:

After watching this film, I couldn't understand the pay-off to the father character (played by Tom Wilkinson) killing the man who murdered his son. As far as I could see, justice was inevitable, even if it was diluted and they'd have to wait a long time for it. I couldn't see how murder was justified in this case. Even if they managed to off the man who killed their son, how would they deal with it if his body was ever discovered and they were suspected? How would they sleep at night knowing that knock on the door could come at any moment? That's not even without considering the ethical questions of when murder is justified. My mother took a completely different approach. She said, she totally understood why the parents would want the murderer of their son killed, and thought they were well within reason to take the law into their own hands and commit murder themselves.

It's an ethical dilemma that different people are going to look at differently, and how people approach it will be heavily dependent on their own life experiences. You're more likely the sympathize with the quandary presented in that film if you are a parent yourself, I strongly suspect.

Just as you're more likely to sympathize with the characters in True Tears if you find a similarity between yourself and them. I don't think True Tears is a bad anime by any stretch of the imagination. I can see why people find it so fascinating. But not me, and that's purely because I can't see any aspects of myself in any of the characters. They're too far removed from my own experiences and my own personality.

Correct me I'm wrong, but I personally view that as a terrible way to watch a series. If we have to be able to relate to these characters, then wouldn't shows always be the same?

How are we supposed to explore the different side of life if people always go under the same sort of rationality that you would go through?

I'll take an experience in real life that I had with a friend of mine. He's friends with this guy who he hates, he's always hanging around him but he never tells him his feelings. I can't really understand in my own rationale why I would ever take that approach myself, but after knowing my friend for a very long time I realized that the was just too nice of a person to ever just say "no."

So when I watch something based on how humans may react to certain situations, I try to understand the character and then see if that makes sense with what that character is doing. If it is consistent with the personality of that character, I accept the situation. I find it nonsensical to try and find your own criteria of thought patterns in other people, let alone a make believe person in an anime show and then use that to sympathize with them. Understand their criteria, then choose to sympathize or not.

Anyways, I'm basically saying that you and any other people who think like you, just need to broaden the way in which you sympathize with these characters. Yes if their thought criteria doesn't make sense, by all means don't take interest in the character.

I'm a little tired so I have an inclination that I just made a fool of myself, but oh well .

[Sorrow-K]

I never said that characters should follow the same rationale as I do. This has nothing to do with rationale, and it's expected that all characters will approach a situation or ethical dilemma slightly differently from how I would. Obviously there's a problem if characters make an decision that's not consistent with their experiences and personality to date, but that's just poor storytelling, which is a much more objective flaw.

This is about being able to identify with characters. If you can't identify with characters to at least some extent, it's much harder to truly connect with them, and thus, become absorbed in their stories. Sure, it's possible to make fascinating stories from completely unsympathetic characters, but these types of stories tend to be really focused character analyses, which this certainly is not (either that, or stylized violence, but that's a completely different kettle of fish).

And yes, part of all of this is that I can't always understand their thought criteria, and it's not out of lack of trying. These are such emotionally-driven characters, and they so frequently act purely out of emotion. I, personally, am not. I tend to try to minimize the influence of emotions in my decision making as much as possible. The good thing about this anime is that it hasn't tried to baby its audience by spoon-feeding us character rationale each and every time they make a decision, but the disadvantage is that it loses people like me, who aren't immediately susceptible to the same thought process that these characters tend to use.

[Theowne]

Howdy, folks. I'm coming a bit late to the party, it seems, but I've been catching up on this series since I was recommended by a friend. I haven't watched any non-Ghibli anime since Honey and Clover simply because nothing meets my expectations anymore. While True Tears isn't another H&C, it's a fairly good series so far even if it falls for many of the typical anime cliches. I do like the characters even though Hiromi seems a bit thin, but they don't have the somewhat shallow quality that I didn't like about Bokura Ga Ita.

It's been a while since I've been actively watching and following discussion of an ongoing series (makes me nostalgic for the H&C days), so I'm looking forward to finishing the series. Too bad I didn't catch on a few weeks earlier

I've only gotten up to episode 8 so far, but I'll be interested to see where this series goes. Anyways, I know I didn't really contribute anything with this post, but just wanted to throw myself out there.

[jaisrh]

Originally Posted by Theowne

Howdy, folks. I'm coming a bit late to the party, it seems, but I've been catching up on this series since I was recommended by a friend. I haven't watched any non-Ghibli anime since Honey and Clover simply because nothing meets my expectations anymore. While True Tears isn't another H&C, it's a fairly good series so far even if it falls for many of the typical anime cliches. I do like the characters even though Hiromi seems a bit thin, but they don't have the somewhat shallow quality that I didn't like about Bokura Ga Ita.

It's been a while since I've been actively watching and following discussion of an ongoing series (makes me nostalgic for the H&C days), so I'm looking forward to finishing the series. Too bad I didn't catch on a few weeks earlier

I've only gotten up to episode 8 so far, but I'll be interested to see where this series goes. Anyways, I know I didn't really contribute anything with this post, but just wanted to throw myself out there.

Kind of wondering why you're posting in the episode 10 thread when you said you're only up to episode 8

Anyway I get your point that you're trying to introduce yourself to everyone.

[Theowne]

I figured not many people would be looking at the episode 8 thread. I'm exceptionally good dodging spoilers Anyways, I'm caught up now so it's okay.

Anyways, from my general opinion of how these anime shows go, it seems probable that the eventual pairing is Shin and Hiromi. Personally though I would prefer it to be a Noe and Shin ending because I really feel indifferent to Hiromi's character. It has seemed thin ever since the beginning. I see nothing in the way the writers have developed their "relationship"...unlike with Noe who I find to be a more empathetic character and has more depth between them. Basically I feel like Hiromi & Shin are after each other because the writers tell them to, it doesn't feel very realistic.

[jaisrh]

Originally Posted by Theowne

I figured not many people would be looking at the episode 8 thread. I'm exceptionally good dodging spoilers Anyways, I'm caught up now so it's okay.

Anyways, from my general opinion of how these anime shows go, it seems probable that the eventual pairing is Shin and Hiromi. Personally though I would prefer it to be a Noe and Shin ending because I really feel indifferent to Hiromi's character. It has seemed thin ever since the beginning. I see nothing in the way the writers have developed their "relationship"...unlike with Noe who I find to be a more empathetic character and has more depth between them. Basically I feel like Hiromi & Shin are after each other because the writers tell them to, it doesn't feel very realistic.

Like many others, it seems that you have let the first 8 episodes affect your opinion of Hiromi. During that time, actually for the previous year, Hiromi had to live under the cloud of the lie told by Shin's mother while being mentally abused to some extent so it was natural that she could'nt make much progress in their relationship.

The writers did let us know that Hiromi was a much more cheerful person before she moved in and was told that lie. They have also been classmates since elementary school and were at least friendly casual friends until the past year. So in order to get the proper perspective you have to factor in what the writers are saying in that some of the development already happened before the show started. From episode 9 onwards they have resumed their friendly interaction and continued on from there.

As for Noe, I see a mostly one sided relationship in terms of their feelings. Noe has fallen hard for Shin. Both of them have never dated before so they are inexperienced in all this. I think Shin feels something for Noe but only a fraction of what she feels for him and Noe knows it. Noe has inspired him but more as a close friend would than in romantic terms. The subject of his picture book is still Hiromi and his thoughts and feelings are primarily for her as well. Noe realized all that in episode 9.

[Theowne]

Like many others, it seems that you have let the first 8 episodes affect your opinion of Hiromi.

Well, usually when I watch an anime, the anime affects my opinions of characters in the anime. Just sayin'

As for the rest, well what I see is that with Shin & Noe, maybe it isn't as mutual as it could be, but it seems like something that has a solid foundation and has the potential to grow naturally. I just don't find the Shin & Hiromi relationship to be realistic at all. They just seem to like each other because the anime is about them liking each other. Also, some of the things Hiromi says and does (such as a certain interaction with Noe) make me dislike her character a lot.

[tejvenim]

Originally Posted by Theowne

As for the rest, well what I see is that with Shin & Noe, maybe it isn't as mutual as it could be, but it seems like something that has a solid foundation and has the potential to grow naturally. I just don't find the Shin & Hiromi relationship to be realistic at all. They just seem to like each other because the anime is about them liking each other.

Noe is as unrealistic as Hiromi.

In real life, Hiromi will obviously love a handsome and tall high school guy like Jun.

The same is true about Noe. In real life, Noe will obviously love a handsome and tall high school guy.

Both Hiromi and Noe will obviously view the dorky and immature Shinichirou as low ranking and low priority on a list of guys that they know.

But since this is anime, the dork win the heart of all the girls.

I find it very weird that you think there is solid foundation and potential for natural growth for Shin X Noe while commenting that Shin X Hiromi lack realism.

[TinyRedLeaf]

^ *chuckle* I hope you're not a girl, because you just broke my heart.

Girls don't like dorks eh? Well, it depends on how well groomed he is, I suppose. Speaking from experience, I've met a fair share of girls who do indeed like "goody-goody" dorks. "Tall, handsome guys" would do nicely too, of course, but the problem with tall, handsome guys is that they often turn out to be chauvinistic jerks. It's not unlike how drop-dead gorgeous girls often turn out to be petulant, high-maintenance nuisances. The sword cuts both ways.

Originally Posted by Theowne

As for the rest, well what I see is that with Shin & Noe, maybe it isn't as mutual as it could be, but it seems like something that has a solid foundation and has the potential to grow naturally. I just don't find the Shin & Hiromi relationship to be realistic at all. They just seem to like each other because the anime is about them liking each other. Also, some of the things Hiromi says and does (such as a certain interaction with Noe) make me dislike her character a lot.

It's ok to have your opinions so long as you can give good reasons for them.

I think that where Shin and Hiromi are concerned, they belong together because their feelings for each other are mutual. Shinichiro may have felt affection for Noe, which he confused with love, but that's a common mistake many boys (and men) make. I know I have (and I've made a girl fairly miserable because of it - not something I'm proud of, in hindsight). Whether or not Shin and Hiromi's relationship feels realistic probably depends on the extent to which you can relate to similar situations, I suppose.

All said and done, Noe needs to learn how to let go. It's part of growing up. You can't hold on to your past forever.

[cloudninja]

Originally Posted by Theowne

Well, usually when I watch an anime, the anime affects my opinions of characters in the anime. Just sayin'

As for the rest, well what I see is that with Shin & Noe, maybe it isn't as mutual as it could be, but it seems like something that has a solid foundation and has the potential to grow naturally. I just don't find the Shin & Hiromi relationship to be realistic at all. They just seem to like each other because the anime is about them liking each other. Also, some of the things Hiromi says and does (such as a certain interaction with Noe) make me dislike her character a lot.

It seems like you prefer to be shown things rather having things be implied by the writers because you missed out on what the writers have set up. The relationship between Shin and Hiromi before she moved in was a lot better than what was shown during episodes 1-8 as implied through some of the things that Shin and Hiromi said or thought that revealed their past. Without taking that into account your view of the show can't properly take into account Shin and Hiromi's feelings for each other so you're basically admitting that you can't properly see what the writers intend you to see. Episodes 9 and beyond have much better representations of her true character because she is now free of the weight of the lie that Shin's mother told her.

Shin's mother not only lied to her about Hiromi and Shin possibly being siblings but she continued to mentally abuse her for the past year. The jealousy that Shin's mother had for Hiromi's mother took an effect on her. In episode 8 Hiromi caught herself saying things that Shin's mother had previously said to her. To her credit she realized what was happening, that Shin's mother was imprinting her own hatred onto Hiromi and she did'nt like it. Fortunately, Shin's mother redeemed herself by admitting it was a lie in episode 9.

If Shin's mother had'nt told her that lie a year ago then Shin and Hiromi would probably be dating and happy together by now. That lie created a dark cloud that has affected them for the past year. Episodes 1-8 showed how the effects of such a lie could lead to misunderstandings that have created the situation that Shin and Hiromi are in now. Anyway, a lot of people have different views of the story depending on their ability to recognize what the story is telling them and their own ability or willingness to relate to the characters based on that information. To have a really good picture of what's happening you have to try and take everything in without dismissing anything that the writers are trying to tell you and then objectively try to relate to the characters based on their situation and not your own view of how they should act. The most biased posters I have seen take a narrow distorted view of the story and then end up with bizarre thoughts that end up in some strange looking posts here and there in this forum. Fortunately those are few and far between.

Originally Posted by tejvenim

Noe is as unrealistic as Hiromi.

In real life, Hiromi will obviously love a handsome and tall high school guy like Jun.

The same is true about Noe. In real life, Noe will obviously love a handsome and tall high school guy.

Both Hiromi and Noe will obviously view the dorky and immature Shinichirou as low ranking and low priority on a list of guys that they know.

But since this is anime, the dork win the heart of all the girls.

Sure, in real life girls would favor handsome guys with all else being equal. Unless they were already in love with someone else as Hiromi is with Shin. They have liked each other since they were much younger. Only shallow girls give up on the guy they love just because a handsome guy shows up. That's why she never really showed actual interest in Jun except for lying to Tomoyo about liking Jun in order to get Tomoyo off her case about liking Shin back when she could'nt admit to it because of the lie told by Shin's mother.

[Theowne]

@tejvenim - I don't think it's unrealistic at all. Perhaps the majority of girls will immediately step towards the most handsome guy possible (and vice versa) but I have seen plenty of examples, including with friends, where that is not always the case. Anyways, yes, this is an anime, perhaps a bit idealistic. Which is why I think Shin and Noe's interaction gives them a reason to like one another, I haven't seen the same thing between Shin and Hiromi, and throughout the series Hiromi has done things which I find a bit unpleasant so I dislike her character, at this point, as well.

@TinyRedLeaf - I just don't get, though, why Shin and Noe are considered something of the "past" so soon. They've barely had any relationship. But maybe you're right about Shin's feelings towards Noe. I still think their relationship is the one with the most going for it so far. That may be because we were able to completely see it begin and progress as the show went on. The writers make it clear that their feelings are mutual. The writers tell us it's a strong bond, so far it just doesn't click for me, that of course is not really something we can debate about. Perhaps the following episodes will change that.

@cloudninja, Er, your post is a bit hostile considering this is an anime I watch for enjoyment.... my first initial reason for disliking the Shin & Hirome relationship is basically because I do not like her character that much. And yes, I understand all the things that were implied (it isn't exactly rocket science, cloudninja) but personally, I do not think that excuses some of the things she did so far in the series, especially that one scene in the snow, towards Noe. And that's a personal thing, I can understand that maybe others prefer Hiromi's character and say that it's a result of the "cloud over her head" and etc. Maybe when more is revealed about her as well as her relationship with Shin then I will change my mind, but at this point, that's my opinion.

In the end though, this is basically just my preference and I can clearly see that the show is going to end with Shin and Hiromi together. You have to realize that people with different mindsets will interpret the same story in different ways.

Maybe Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien has made me too sympathetic for the inevitable "nice and sweet but ultimately will be heartbroken" characters.

[destiny4everlove]

I know I'm a little late, but here are my personal thoughts on this episode:

Spoiler for POV Ep. 10:

Episode 10: The scene between Nobuse and Noe was really touching; I liked that scene a lot!! I also enjoyed the scene where Shinichiro had some trouble introducing Noe to Ai-chan and Ai-chan to Noe; I found that scene funny and cute. And the scene with Noe clapping her hands to encourage Shin stole my heart!! Even though I'm not a big fan of the Shin x Hiromi pairing, I cannot deny that the ending scene between them in episode 10 was very touching and beautifully made. The music, the animation, the feelings, it was a really great scene. After watching this episode, I wonder if Raigomaru finally "flying" means Shinichiro finally saying "I love you" to Hiromi.