Character Discussion - Suzaku

[Dean_the_Young]

Forced her? Granted, I haven't been able to see the episode yet (finals till Thurs), but I've been under the impression that she just quickly gets introduced at the very end of the episode as a cliff-hanger.

For all we know, Suzaku (or any Britannian nobleman/buecrat) could have gone up to her and said "Yo, you want a roll at being ruler of Area Eleven? You'll get better quarters than you do now, and even as a puppet leader you'll still have some power to make things better for others. Oh, and you might get a chance to see your brother again. Who knows?"

Whether it hurts her in the end or not, it would be very much in character for her to jump on such a chance. A chance to make things better for the elevens, even marginally? Possibly better conditions for herself, if she was in bad conditions in the first place? And most importantly, the chance to see her brother? There could be several results from an offer like that, but being dragged kicking and screaming isn't likely one of them.

[squaresphere]

Here's a sides ways thought, Suzaku NEEDS Zero. In that he needs to defeat Zero and crush the Black Knights in a very public manner. What better way to become the Knight of One than routing out one of the most dangerous terrorist groups out there.

[-KarumA-]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

Here's a sides ways thought, Suzaku NEEDS Zero. In that he needs to defeat Zero and crush the Black Knights in a very public manner. What better way to become the Knight of One than routing out one of the most dangerous terrorist groups out there.

he had stopped them before and it was enough to give him the rank as Knight of Rounds, we dont know how much the Knight of One has done to recieve his rank, but seen his age and status (eye) he has been ont he battle field a lot longer than Suzaku and it would take longer to get the experience needed
We havent seent he n.o. 1 fight either, but im guessing Suzaku lacks way too much experience to get tot hat rank even after defeating Lulu for a second time

[Koshimizu]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

Even so, do you think Suzaku cares so little for Nunally that he would not respect her wishes in any manner? It's been stated that Nunally is not only Lelouch's raison d'etre, but Suzaku's as well.

No. She's not.
She's "important person", according to FO. No way a raison d'etre.
I don't even see him care about her more than Euphie.

And he already showed he has no respect in her wishes at all, when he's ready to take over Nunnally over Lelouch's dead body in Ep25. Yes. Nunnally will be so happy about this.

Suzaku isn't putting Nunally into the governor-general's seat to force her to do what he tells her too; rather, he trusts that she, like Euphie, has a kind heart that desires happiness for both Japanese and Britannians.

Sure he does.
But do you actually think he's moronic enough to NOT know she will be an obvious bait for Zero?

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Forced her? Granted, I haven't been able to see the episode yet (finals till Thurs), but I've been under the impression that she just quickly gets introduced at the very end of the episode as a cliff-hanger.

For all we know, Suzaku (or any Britannian nobleman/buecrat) could have gone up to her and said "Yo, you want a roll at being ruler of Area Eleven? You'll get better quarters than you do now, and even as a puppet leader you'll still have some power to make things better for others. Oh, and you might get a chance to see your brother again. Who knows?"

Whether it hurts her in the end or not, it would be very much in character for her to jump on such a chance. A chance to make things better for the elevens, even marginally? Possibly better conditions for herself, if she was in bad conditions in the first place? And most importantly, the chance to see her brother? There could be several results from an offer like that, but being dragged kicking and screaming isn't likely one of them.

The forcing is not about being governor or not. It's the phone call.
It's totally unnecessary. And there's no way for the call to be NOT made out of purely evil intention.

[Airi]

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

.

And he already showed he has no respect in her wishes at all, when he's ready to take over Nunnally over Lelouch's dead body in Ep25.

Nobody respects Nunnuly, Koshimizu. Lelouch wants to create a perfect world for her, using methods that she wouldn't accept (and that's why he never told her the truth about zero). Do you think Lelouch respects her?

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

It's the phone call.
It's totally unnecessary. And there's no way for the call to be NOT made out of purely evil intention.

Of course. Lelouch forced Euphemia to kill all Japanese and then he killed her in front of him. What did you expect? Revenge is human nature.

[Stretch5920]

Originally Posted by Airi

Nobody respects Nunnuly, Koshimizu. Lelouch wants to create a perfect world for her, using methods that she wouldn't accept (and that's why he never told her the truth about zero). Do you think Lelouch respects her?

let's hold that thought until the issue is actually addressed.

Of course. Lelouch forced Euphemia to kill all Japanese and then he killed her in front of him. What did you expect?

your mother did teach you that two wrongs don't make a right

[Majek]

making thins right is not profitable.

screw nunally. if she lets herself be used ,there's nothing wrong with using her.

[Airi]

Originally Posted by Stretch5920

your mother did teach you that two wrongs don't make a right

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, mind you
Revenge is natural, as is jealousy, hate, gluttony, and many other destructive feelings.Revenge is natural and to be effective must match the wrong that was committed.

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by Majek

making thins right is not profitable.

screw nunally. if she lets herself be used ,there's nothing wrong with using her.

I don't see how Nanali could possibly have stopped herself from being used. She's blind AND crippled. She's probably the most helpless/weak character in the entire show.

Of course, this doesn't mean that it's right to use her. It might be inevitable for her to be used, but equating that with 'right' is ridiculous.

[Koshimizu]

Originally Posted by Airi

Of course. Lelouch forced Euphemia to kill all Japanese and then he killed her in front of him. What did you expect? Revenge is human nature.

WTF does that has to do with my post?
I'm replying to a post which is blindly justifying that Suzaku isn't doing anything to make Nunnally uncomfortable.
Can't you read before you blindly defend Suzaku and make those you-think-you're-so-smart comments?

Yeah yeah so human nature. Why don't you tell that to the other blind defender who still thinks Suzaku is an angel doing everything to benefit all human kind?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

Here's a sides ways thought, Suzaku NEEDS Zero. In that he needs to defeat Zero and crush the Black Knights in a very public manner. What better way to become the Knight of One than routing out one of the most dangerous terrorist groups out there.

This kind of food for thought is quite pertinent actually. I'm not exactly sure what is the requirement to be "Knight of One", but pretty much that defending the Empire from a great threat wouldn't be unrewarded (or better: getting your hand on the geass witch, which seems to be really the core need of the Emperor).

Now, speaking of the "Knight of One" stuff, it is pretty much disturbing me to some points: what happened to Suzaku's ideal of "Changing the empire from within"?
As far as Suzaku implied in his "wish", he is actually trying to be the "guardian" of Japan or so... but, does it actually equal to "change of system"?
We don't have more details about it, but I'm not exactly sure if Charles will leave Suzaku doing whatever he wants with Area 11 as a regent. Principally, as a Knight of the Rounds, he is still under his orders and hence, the ideals and such. Controlling the area doesn't seem to resolve the problem at all, especially if Charles is doing the happy go lucky conqueror everywhere else. At the very best, Suzaku is really doing the hypocrite as he is protecting "what's around him", but certainly not doing what he claimed before "changing the empire so nobody will die".

It is terrific to see that kind of self justification, yet using the very things he is supposed to protect, in order to achieve in his means (it would be like lulu trying to use nunnaly herself to crush brittania: quite a contradiction).

[Majek]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

I don't see how Nanali could possibly have stopped herself from being used. She's blind AND crippled. She's probably the most helpless/weak character in the entire show.

Of course, this doesn't mean that it's right to use her. It might be inevitable for her to be used, but equating that with 'right' is ridiculous.

yeah and as such the perfect tool.

nothing wrong =/= right.

[evil|plushie]

Maybe, but when you say there's nothing wrong with using people like Nanali, you are in essence justifying your own stance and saying it's 'okay' to do so. At which point, I still find that ridiculous. Do you think it's okay taking candy from babies too? After all, they can't defend themselves too.

[Majek]

Of course i think it's okay to do so in this show, but if it's the right thing to do or not it's not my problem.

[Airi]

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

WTF does that has to do with my post?
I'm replying to someone who's blindly justifying that Suzaku isn't doing anything to make Nunnally uncomfortable.
Can't you read before you blindly defend Suzaku and make those you-think-you're-so-smart comments? ?

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

And there's no way for the call to be NOT made out of purely evil intention

I answered, telling you a possible reason for this "purely evil intention". Are you in a bad mood today??

Originally Posted by Koshimizu

Why don't you tell that to the other blind defender who still think Suzaku is an angel doing everything to benefit all human kind

Don't put words in my mouth! I didn't say that. I never said Suzaku is an angel!
Don’t get angry over such little things!!

[evil|plushie]

Well, if people do manipulate the weak, I think that whether it's the right thing to do or not does become their problem. After all, they have personal responsibility for their own actions or stances and ideals.

[Majek]

So that's Suzaku's problem then, if he really is the manipulating her. But if he doesn't give a damn what are you going to do about it?

[Last_Hope]

Plotwise I really like how Suzaku is using Nunnally. So far Lelouch have had little to none resistance when it comes to brains. That Suzaku dares to do this move is very refreshing and played out right it could help Code Geass becoming even more epic.

But, no, it´s not the right thing to do and it´s hard to justify even if you use the word revenge. But Lelouch has put himself in this position since he killed Euphemia. He should have been prepared for this kind of response after killing a person that meant so much to Suzaku. It was a wrong move in not coming down from his high horses when he talked to Suzaku and ultimately let Nunnally fall into their hands.

With Suzaku´s character change we now have two right out evil guys on each side fighting eachother. I´d go as far as saying that no matter what kind of misery befalls them they did deserve it, since it´s in line with my prediction that the one that in the end is most calculating, cynical and emotionless (when fighting) will win. Hence making me say that there´s a small advantage for Suzaku at this time, since Lelouch still has people he wants to protect. Although I´d still bet on Lelouch.

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by Majek

So that's Suzaku's problem then, if he really is the manipulating her. But if he doesn't give a damn what are you going to do about it?

Unless I can fly to Japan, kidnap taniguchi and force him to rewrite R2, probably nothing. But that wasn't my point. My point was that it's ridiculous to say that 'oh, Suzaku doesn't care about this etc so it doesn't matter' or even that it's okay or right to manipulate the weak in such a manner. After all, we all have our own opinions, and just cause certain people don't think theirs through doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

On the idea of Suzaku 'using' Nunally...

Do you think Nunally doesn't want a peaceful Japan? Do you think she wants her precious brother to carve a path of bloody destruction, killing her siblings in her name? Or if she still doesn't know he's Zero, do you think she wouldn't take the only opportunity available to her to live peacefully with her brother again? I'm not sure anybody can say Suzaku is 'taking advantage' of Nunally; it rather seems to me that their goals neatly coincide, doesn't it?

Perhaps their goals do indeed - but if so, why wasn't she made governor a lot earlier? Seems awfully coincidental that she wasn't made one way until Zero reaperas and lo! that's when Suzaku/the brittanians pull her out of the magic hat and makes her the governor . No, though their goals might coincide as you say, she's in essence being used, because of her importance to Lelouch, which'll severly limit his options - and that's wha tsuzaku counts on as well.