Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion (second reincarnation)

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Spoiler for CHALLENGER:

Pulling Orange-kun would have been too easy.

...Wait, so the Tang are Dutch now?

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

Correction. All guns are always loaded, PERIOD.
The unbolded part in the original statement introduces into the mind that a gun may not be loaded, and provides an area that allows the lazy mind to slack. This is unacceptable. It must be worded both on paper and in your mind as strongly as possible. There is no 'treat them as if they are loaded.' An unloaded weapon is useless. They ARE loaded. (Even if they're half taken apart.)

2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)
3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target. This is the Golden Rule. Its violation is directly responsible for about 60 percent of inadvertent discharges.
4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

As we can see, Teana violated Rule Four and nearly killed Subaru.

The rest I can agree with. And Teana should have been doubly chewed out by Vita for it.

[Keroko]

Teana's guns are magic guns, so as long as she is alive and kicking, theoretically speaking her guns will always be loaded.

[Comartemis]

Wait question: Why would Durandal disband with the adoption of Neo-Belka? In the original they were a tactics research group/test group, so even with Neo-Belka they wouldn't be out of a job. In fact Latona could be using a Neo-Belka setup for her hardsuit - pilebunker device, anyone?

Fuck yes.

Well to borrow the excuse 7Arcs used to break up RF6 (Boo! Hiss!), "their purpose had been served." The implementation of Neo-Belka was one of the unit's projects, as well as their most successful by far. With the problem seemingly solved insofar as the brass were concerned, the call went out to disband the unit, and Zead more or less caved in because he happened to agree with the brass. If he'd fought the pressure he probably would've won, he just figured his job was more or less finished.

Ultimately it isn't all that important that Durandal be disbanded, just that Zead and Alex be available to hook up with RF6.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Keroko

...Wait, so the Tang are Dutch now?

I just felt like pulling something related to "orange".
Orange-kun would have been too easy.

And to be frank, the "Oranje" has made quite a fuss and left a big nice impression on me when the world cup was hosted in france, ten years ago.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Fuck yes.

Well to borrow the excuse 7Arcs used to break up RF6 (Boo! Hiss!), "their purpose had been served." The implementation of Neo-Belka was one of the unit's projects, as well as their most successful by far. With the problem seemingly solved insofar as the brass were concerned, the call went out to disband the unit, and Zead more or less caved in because he happened to agree with the brass. If he'd fought the pressure he probably would've won, he just figured his job was more or less finished.

Ultimately it isn't all that important that Durandal be disbanded, just that Zead and Alex be available to hook up with RF6.

Well, it's your verse, so it's up to you how you want to play it, but I recall your initial idea being that Durandal was a GF version of SAFA. In that case, it wouldn't nesscesarily have been disbanded after finishing the hardsuit and Neo-Belka projects.

Ultimately whether Durandal continues to exist is up to you, though if the main thing is for Zead and Alex to be available, then the simplest solution is a routine change of assignments: Zead is rewarded for his work with a promotion to Brigadier General and is promoted out of Durandal, leaving his protege Elsa in command, while Alex also accepts a transfer outside Durandal to go and see new experiences and new places.

He may even have been scouted by Walter Feng as a potential future Barghest member. Though admittedly Durandal breaking up does allow the dispersal of everyone, which then you can have a Team Battle Reunion as everyone shows up in their hardsuits; Bosch in his Neo-Belka shooting arts gun device, Latona with pilebunker device, Elsa dual-wielding shotgun and MG devices, Beck with an appropriately-tuned staff setup as a bazooka (you can turn Beck into a bazooka gunner, but its not really worth the effort) and then Zead in his hardsuit, reusing his old callsign.

"Unknowns approaching! Unit callsign... Arrow?"

"It's them," smiled Zead proudly. "The members of my team, the students I trained..."

"Arrow 6 to Father 1. Please come in, over."

...yeah the crack is strong with me.

[Reiji Tabibito]

A loud whooshing noise can be heard...

And then it appears...

Spoiler for HE'S BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!:

And out steps a man clad in a suit with a long coat.

He raises his arms to the sky, and shouts:


"I - HAVE - RETURNED!!!"

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Isn't it obvious?

That's Nanoha's harem.

*Runs at EPIC FLYING SPEED from the Yuuno fans!*

<Chases after Com with the SPEED OF DEATH>

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

*pops in and pats Cadia Zwei's head*

Ugh...-_-
Cadia Zwei: Aaron onii-tan!!! *glomps*
*is glomped*


Cadia Zwei: Bai-bai, Onii-tan!

*pats Cadia Zwei's head again and pops out*

...I don't get Cadia Zwei love?

...

Originally Posted by Keroko

... Go play Grandia, then come back thank you very much.

... Yzak... how in the hell did you reach that conclusion? -_-

... You REALLY want to know?

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

1. The Beginning. (No need to explain. ^^;

2. The Wild Blooming. (Where the HAXX levels were rather outta control. But still fun. Usually referred to as the Golden Days of Wild Abandon.[Okay, I made that up.] That phase lacked a bit in control.)

3. The Stringency Wars. (The previews era was wild? This era took control a little too seriously and cranked it to the other end of the rainbow. This is where the recent hissy fits ghaz mentioned were in full force. But lots of bad blood and dark suppressed emotions due to the extreme stringency against any points regarding HAXX caused the lack of motivation to write.)

And now, I would like to believe that we are all currently in Era #:

4. The Middle Ground Rebuilding Period. (Where the balance between creativity and basic groundwork rules is maintained. If too much lack of control is bad, too much control is just as bad. That's what we learned the hard way. But now, we're past that.)

If I must say so myself, you picked a decent time to enter. Have fun!

Ah, the Second Age...I remember those days...those were the days in which I made characters without too much worry to HAXX, and realism...

Mil-otaku freaks...

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

This thread needs MOAR scenarios.

~MGLN RecollectionS~

~Act 1: Aurion and Almaria: The Two Aces~

Spoiler for MGLN RecollectionS prologue:

[Magic Weapons Research Facility, TSAB Naval Base] [May 17th, MC 057] [0625 hours]

[/I]


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Spoiler for Act 1: Aurion and Almaria; The Two Aces:

~SNIP~

It's a shame we all know what's going to happen...or is it?

<takes current character interaction and begins plotting for Angelic Almaria in Heaven>

Originally Posted by Kha

With infinite thanks to -Fate-, I give you, Kha & Fate 4th Edition!

Spoiler for WINRAR Overwhelming!:

I love what Fate did for Kha's armor. The spaulders have a neat touch, the redesigned Tenjyo Tenge Tausend Kreuz (Dualwielding Polearms ALA Barbarian! ) had my jaws on the floor in awe, the change to The Cleric's mask is no Batsuit-nipple, but a ZENRYU UPGURAEDO!!!, and the GAR (Archer and Gilga in 1! ) doesn't just shines but BURNS WITH SLEEK MANLY FIRE!!!

...Hm. Not bad...

Originally Posted by Aaron008R

Use it too much and it gets... well... you know... old?

As for me, I already made a Crossbow-user OC in the past. But she is not mine to use for now.:3

That you did...and I need to GET BACK TO WORK!!!!

<bashes self on head>

Originally Posted by Keroko

Amazing how fast a little shop can go with propper motivation and inspiration. Here is an image of Syn with her mother, Elena Virage:

Spoiler for A mother and her daughter:

As you can see, Elena is the doting type who loves to show people how much she loves them. Syn, on the other hand, is the 'you could just tell me' type who is not really comfortable with intimate contact. This does leave Syn wondering how Vivio always manages to cone her into letting her play with her hair.

...HMMMM...Fascinating. I can use this, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS...

Originally Posted by Keroko

Really? Then let me introduce you to the lovely princess of the Abh empire. You shall call her, Lafiel:

Spoiler:

(Crest of the Stars. Read the manga, don't bother with the anime.)

LA-FI-EL-SAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!




[Archive Post: NEXT!]

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw

Correction. All guns are always loaded, PERIOD.
The unbolded part in the original statement introduces into the mind that a gun may not be loaded, and provides an area that allows the lazy mind to slack. This is unacceptable. It must be worded both on paper and in your mind as strongly as possible. There is no 'treat them as if they are loaded.' An unloaded weapon is useless. They ARE loaded. (Even if they're half taken apart.)

Go and take it up with Cooper's ghost then. As I understand things the bolded part is the rule, and the unbolded part is the explanation of the rule, written by Cooper himself. That's how they teach at Gunsite, anyhow.

The rest I can agree with. And Teana should have been doubly chewed out by Vita for it.

Vita hasn't been trained in the Four Rules. Naomi, on the other hand, has, and she's had active shooting experience for the last 3 years, plus she knows that Teana was lucky that her shot was intercepted - Naomi had something similar, where she shot Lance Flight's 2IC. They had to pull the bullet outta the 2IC's arm.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Teana's guns are magic guns, so as long as she is alive and kicking, theoretically speaking her guns will always be loaded.

Rule One and Two are not the issue here, Keroko, the issue is Rule Four: "Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified."

Teana was just shooting away and did not identify her targets, which was how she ended up firing at Subaru.

I can't exactly say "Welcome Back Reiji" or that I missed you in all honesty, so I'll just facepalm at you, Reiji.

[krisslanza]

Originally Posted by Kha

And I have no idea who you or Kriss are talking about.

Shame on Kha for not knowing what a Numan (or Newman) is. Nei is in Phantasy Star 2 which is supposed to be one of the greatest jRPGs of all time! Its also the first game I think (jRPG wise) where a main character dies.

Yes. Before Aeris in FFVII ;3

And for image the best I can get on such short notice...
http://autumn-sacura.deviantart.com/...y-Nei-29329350

[Kha]

Yes, yes I got it. Will look it up when I have time.

And interesting fact: in WH40K, the Tau Empire are very orange. Coincidence? Reference? I don't know, but I do know a Commander Farsight decked out in red and whose 3 Times More melee than any other Tau. Calling the Tian Tang instead might actually fit, but I've adopted a different set of colors more culturally related to the Chinese (the closest to orange would then be gold), so too bad.


Had a bad night battling the forces of logic. I guess I was too hard up on some points; though the infobit releases in the DVDs on the side of 7Arcs has been rather like how some of the pre-BC patches made the game worse instead of better.

After trying all night to reconcile so many ambiguous points, even those that contradict one another (I don't see what's wrong with 300 years before MC 0075 being old MC 462, making Cradle's disappearance coincide with Kaiser's death and saving us from all the pain. ), I still don't have a way forward short of pulling the Faith card from my sleeve and topdecking with inaccurate history taking (They couldn't organize a Library, how trustworthy can their catalogues be?).

Needs more comments. And lets discuss it here; the rest of the thread needs to know.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

I guess I better get my Ghostbuster's kit out then... I preffer the more... strongly worded version. Seeing as I'm around FAR too many lazy minded people.


Anywho... for those who missed it... I found a pretty good image of the B.E.S.T. force's Dining Facility head cook, Marilyn...





O_O;;;
Someone must have spoiled one of her roasts...

(You know, I could see that happening too. Villain ruins her roast. She gets pissed. So she asks cooper to convert one of the jets into a battle robot. Since she feeds cooper, and he loves giant robots, he'd agree. And not even don would get in her way.)

[Kha]

Ever since I heard bits and pieces of it over the web, and as it got remixed overe and over, I was looking for one particular mix of Metal Gear Solid's theme. Turned out it never made it to MP3, and was never in the game OST...

And so, after half a year of searching, I give you, the theme of a long-dead man we will always remember...

Spoiler for MGS ~Eminence~:

"Make sure you show my boy how cool I was."
~ Touareg, of the Seraphim, last words.

If you thought Rebuilt Kha was GAR, wait till you meet his dad.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Liingo

Interesting mix. Although you have to say that one of the main reasons why people get fired up about things is that Kha (to date) has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer when shaping his sources of inspiration into an OC.

True. I'd probably shifted a name or two and refrained from mentioning any divine beings when porting the Light.

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

Wow, that sure got Keroko's attention

Well, yeah. At that time I mistook her for Reinforce, and since she is... you know, dead, that kinda drew my atention.

Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki

The power of teh khrack is...strong

The biggest embarasment for Syn comes when Elena and Vivio decide that they should be the ones to design Syn's Barrier Jacket.

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Not all the time, just when he gets pissy. Usually he's arrogant in a humorous way ("I'm awesome, so of course I won!") and somewhat hot-blooded but generally good-natured. He and Teana rub each other the wrong way, even though Alex respects and acknowledges Teana's skill and tactical ability, (considering her inexperience as compared to him; it's what leads him to stand up for her against Tiida's superior). Alex becomes fairly close friends with Subaru fairly quickly; current plans have Suba/Alex being one of the driving pairings of the series, the other being Nano/Fate.

No wai! Comar is breaking up a plausible Yuri pairing?

Originally Posted by Comartemis

And on the subject of Nano/Fate... I'm not planning on doing anything really overt, but these things sometimes slip in while you're writing them. On the other hand, where StrikerS made some subtle hints towards the pairing, my hints are subtle like a brick. An example would be Hayate knocking on Nanoha's bedroom door to wake the girls up early, then jokingly asking Nanoha to put some clothes on before she answers the door. Then there's a delay of a few seconds and Nanoha comes to the door dressed in a nightshirt and panties and pretty much nothing else, the implication being that she actually did need to put some clothes on and that she and Fate had been... occupied the night before.

That should do. Though its not a crime to make them kiss and snuggle, the biggest thing you need to keep in mind is where and why. It doesn't make sense for them to make out when a dramatic scenario just happened, for example.

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Oh, the clone doesn't know he's a clone; the original used a modification of the FATE technique to modify the clone's memories. He thinks he's the original, and Cyborgs 1-4 are there partially to make sure he stays none the wiser.

Still uncomfortable. I'd suggest Jail went and sped up his final escape plan, and hid a clone of himself in some research lab far away. As soon as he 'dies' the clone wakes up with all of Jail's memories.

Originally Posted by Reiji Tabibito

[SIZE="4"]...I don't get Cadia Zwei love?

...

Cadia Zwei: *tilts head* .... dare?

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

... You REALLY want to know?

Would I be asking if I didn't?

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

...HMMMM...Fascinating. I can use this, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS...

Do share your ideas.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Rule One and Two are not the issue here, Keroko, the issue is Rule Four: "Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified."

I wasn't even arguing anything, just noticing that technically Teana's guns are always loaded.

Originally Posted by Kha

Yes, yes I got it. Will look it up when I have time.

And interesting fact: in WH40K, the Tau Empire are very orange. Coincidence? Reference? I don't know, but I do know a Commander Farsight decked out in red and whose 3 Times More melee than any other Tau. Calling the Tian Tang instead might actually fit, but I've adopted a different set of colors more culturally related to the Chinese (the closest to orange would then be gold), so too bad.

Tau armor is technically brown, actually. Though its close enough to be mistaken for orange.

Originally Posted by Kha

Had a bad night battling the forces of logic. I guess I was too hard up on some points; though the infobit releases in the DVDs on the side of 7Arcs has been rather like how some of the pre-BC patches made the game worse instead of better.

After trying all night to reconcile so many ambiguous points, even those that contradict one another (I don't see what's wrong with 300 years before MC 0075 being old MC 462, making Cradle's disappearance coincide with Kaiser's death and saving us from all the pain. ), I still don't have a way forward short of pulling the Faith card from my sleeve and topdecking with inaccurate history taking (They couldn't organize a Library, how trustworthy can their catalogues be?).

Needs more comments. And lets discuss it here; the rest of the thread needs to know.

Did we ever get a timestamp on when the last Saint King died? We know when the Cradle disapeared, we know when the war ended, but do we know when the last Saint King died?

At any rate, it would surprise me if there were more Saint Kings after the disapearance of the Cradle, concidering it was the birthplace of the Royal Familly, so one could say hat with its disapearance, the Royal Familly disapeared, which means the last Saint King should have died somewhere around 300 years ago.

[Kha]

Well we were arguing to the cows coming home about the exact date of the disappearance of the Cradle to the timing of the Kaisers' death. I am to for the same as you, but canon is trying to shoot itself in the foot but giving us 2 separate dates:

- The Kaiser died 300 years ago.
- Something blew up in Old Midchilda Calender 462, and the Cradle was supposedly at fault.

And there were a few other points in between that made it seem like the two events were events separate by an extensive lack of time, which then begs the question of how one existed without the other? Not just that, most of Sankt Kaiser's "divinity" in my writings tied all these misfortunes together; splitting it up causes some trouble, and then the rest of the other theories that "make sense" (reasons for making sense ranging from lessons drawn from history to because they were thought up by people other than me thus giving them +2 Credibility) showed that Belka was merely a multidimensional religion, there was no war, and a motley of other things that completely crushes not only the entire Imperium, that Vivio was not some super Kaiser, but a clone of a descendent with memories of an earlier Kaiser who died with the Cradle...

...I can't remember everything due to the blinding effects of fury, but basically all things that would make a full-blooded Inquisitor yell "BLASPHEMIES!!!" were said and trumpeted, but the Inquisitor was unable to act, because the God Emperor of Canon said so.

It got so bad I was cursing you Keroko for leading me down this path of ruin, because Kha originally was just a Ces'rauva who was raised by the Church and so came to fight for the Church, not some Grey Knight of an ancient order that spanned dimensions battling the Scourge, and so would've been immune to all this canon changes.

And paranoia made me feel that everyone was rejoicing at the chance to finally completely stamp out Khrack from the Nanohaverse once and for all... Hence my immature ragequit.

Khorne, Slaanesh, Teetczh and Nurgle were watching the chat last night, they were laughing along, and I almost went insane.

I guess I should just stick to WoW and forget about this...

[Keroko]

It's not always a bad thing to return to your roots. Like what I'm doing with Syn, I'm ditching pretty much everything and returing to the initial concept of Syn, with a few slight modifications (the initial concept was a gunslinger, not an archer) so there is nothing bad about simply ignoring all the prodding and poking I did and return to Kha's roots.

Now, as for the Cradle/Seiou ordeal, I believe it was long ago said that the Cradle disapeared 300 years ago, correct? In that case, what we have to ask is this: in what year of the old calendar did the new era begin? If there is no clear answer to this, then the idea that Old Calendar 462 = 300 years ago still stands.

[Kha]

No, the Kaiser died 300 years ago, and the Cradle was supposedly involved in an major dimensional dislocation during OMC 462. Yes it does stand if the two events were once and the same, but the others refused to believe that they are the same, otherwise there wouldn't be Midchilda. My argument was that the Cradle was responsible for causing the dislocation as an act of Exterminatis - in other words, Scorched Earth policy. To escape the blast, or the attacking forces, it made a blind jump home to Midchilda, and missed, ending up several layers below bedrock. I'm still working out how Alistina died.

Sankt Kaiser died soon after in a separate battle, and that sacrifice was made to stem the threat that would consume all life. As the Great Apocalypse raged on amongst mortal men, the Empire was torn apart, and from its ashes rose the TSAB.

Still looks like it does fit to me.

Problem was then people started digging out canon I've never seen before. Like the timelines of how TSAB was built up. From what I recall, 300 years ago, Kaiser died. 150 years ago, the Great Apocalypse was at its peak. And 75 years ago, TSAB was formed. But according to "canon", 300 years ago, it was pikemen VS pikemen, then muscle-suited soldiers VS Metal Gears only came 150 years ago, leading to a massive war that only ended in MC 0000. This completely tears the lore about the Saint Guard, Adeptae Belkarum, Licht von Belka apart. Where did this canon fact come from?

In the absence of canon, I don't see the problem of the latter scenario being so 300 years ago. The Great Apocalypse started midway through the Kaisers' life and only ended 150 years after her death, and I could easily add 75 more to coincide with MC 0000! Why does it have to be only 150 years ago that we have such weapons, when we already have transdimensional battleships? How is it possible a transdimensional order arose immediately from the end of a war? Where's that reconstruction period?

That's just 1 example I could recall... I've forgotten the rest, and no one remembers exactly what went down.

All that is left is the universally-held notion that my writings are now definitely wrong, and doomed with no hope of reprieve, but there's no exact point as to where is it wrong.

I can't write anymore with this hanging over my head, that something in my work is wrong and I can't find out what is it. And every time I try, I'm blinded by rage, making the job even harder.

And where is everyone in the chat last night? Could you please post your arguements here so we can sort it out? Nothing like a forum post to allow people to see and compare thoughts, rather than repeatedly scrolling lines of everyone talking at once! And this concerns the thread very much, and doesn't belong to the Tech thread because of the extensive OCfication of history. I implore everyone to come forward!


EDIT: I've been repeated editing this post because of all the mistakes I'm making. Do forgive me...

[Keroko]

I find it surprising that people actually object to the exterminatus theory. The Cradle was a weapon of mass destruction if it was 'involved' with a dimensional dislocation, then common logic tells us that someone pushed the fire button. The crashlanding theory is still debatable, but still a most logical one, how else do you explain how an empire lost one of their most powerfull weapons without attempting to reclaim it?

I don't see where the '300 years ago it was pikemen versus pikemen' comes from. The fact that it is stated that in the Belkan era, biological modification was common practice, much less the fact that they have dimensional ships, and the Wolkenritter -whom are Ancient Belkan knights- wield Devices no different then current day ones and that Fate litterally stated that Mass Based weaponry (with nice images of nukes and large cannons) were 'commonly used' in the Old Belka days pretty much confirms that 300 years ago the battles were long past 'pikemen versus pikemen' level.

The 150 years ago bureau foundation and 75 years ago new era comes from episode 14 tough.

If you'll permit, could I take a look at your writings and see what I can do to fix whatever problems I can spot?

[Kha]

Then comes the next problem is that 45% on my work is hand-written, and 45% is in my head.

But if those points work, then my fanon can be saved. Those were really crucial to the establishment of old Belka, their loss would give me trouble...

I might just be ranting at the moment, no idea what's going on the IRC. Not logged in cos I'm helping Anita prepare dinner. Her friends are coming over for a visit! I hope I pass this Charisma save!

[PhoenixFlare]

Breaking away from lurking again ...

Originally Posted by Kha

Not just that, most of Sankt Kaiser's "divinity" in my writings tied all these misfortunes together; splitting it up causes some trouble, and then the rest of the other theories that "make sense" (reasons for making sense ranging from lessons drawn from history to because they were thought up by people other than me thus giving them +2 Credibility) showed that Belka was merely a multidimensional religion, there was no war, and a motley of other things that completely crushes not only the entire Imperium, that Vivio was not some super Kaiser, but a clone of a descendent with memories of an earlier Kaiser who died with the Cradle...

I don't really remember anyone saying that, though this should be by default, wrong.

If Belka was merely a multidimensional religion, then one needs to explain their possession of the Cradle and also involvement in the war with Midchildans 150 years ago. Aside from religious transgressions and stuff, I personally do not think that a religion should be taking part in such destruction of life. Admittedly, we don't know whether Ancient Belkan was supposedly peace-loving, but if it's famous in the Interdimensional Sea (according to DVD booklet's translation), it should not be one that thrives on killing people.

As for Vivio, regardless whether she's the original Sankt Kaiser or not, she is still the living, breathing bloodline. I admit that I'm not sure about the impact of having Vivio as the original to you, but even as a clone, Vivio has shown to display traits of the original. For Ancient Belkans to use Project F to transfer the memories of their predecessors isn't impossible (since Cradle is hypothesized to be Al-hazardian in manufacture), but neither has it been proven as canonical fact, so it's still a quite malleable point.

Originally Posted by Kha

And paranoia made me feel that everyone was rejoicing at the chance to finally completely stamp out Khrack from the Nanohaverse once and for all... Hence my immature ragequit.

Nonsense. While Khracks certainly give us some funny moments (and at times, outrageous cries of woe and despair), it is part and parcel of the thread already. It's just the matter of volume and concentration you apply.

Originally Posted by Kha

Problem was then people started digging out canon I've never seen before. Like the timelines of how TSAB was built up. From what I recall, 300 years ago, Kaiser died. 150 years ago, the Great Apocalypse was at its peak. And 75 years ago, TSAB was formed. But according to "canon", 300 years ago, it was pikemen VS pikemen, then muscle-suited soldiers VS Metal Gears only came 150 years ago, leading to a massive war that only ended in MC 0000. This completely tears the lore about the Saint Guard, Adeptae Belkarum, Licht von Belka apart. Where did this canon fact come from?

In the absence of canon, I don't see the problem of the latter scenario being so 300 years ago. The Great Apocalypse started midway through the Kaisers' life and only ended 150 years after her death, and I could easily add 75 more to coincide with MC 0000! Why does it have to be only 150 years ago that we have such weapons, when we already have transdimensional battleships? How is it possible a transdimensional order arose immediately from the end of a war? Where's that reconstruction period?

I've dug the log for quite a bit, and I found no reference explicitly saying that the war 300 years ago uses conventional manpower (soldiers and mages only, no "advanced" techs available). The war 300 years ago may have different technologies than the one 150 years later, but if Cradle could be reengineered by Ancient Belkans to suit the bloodline concept, I don't doubt that they could create things similar in power, but smaller in size.

The potential obstacle, of course, would be its stability, which would mean that the "tanks" and "battlecruisers" in the war 300 years ago are supposedly less refined and more primitive than their modern counterparts. I guess you can think along the line of Age of Empires, where the early age aircrafts are more unwieldy and stuff like that, but not totally inconceivable.

Oh, and by the way, for supposedly "primitive" cultures, Ancient Belkans sure did have some pretty powerful stuff, like Armed Devices, cartridges and the Tome of the Night Sky. It can't be that difficult to imagine the war 300 years ago to be fought in the likeness of "pikemen" that use some nifty gadgets, can it?

Edit: Keroko and I synchro-ed!

[Keroko]

One has to remember that the Belkans also managed to manufacture those Type IV drones. If they can manufacture dones of that level, re-design and re-program warships (and concidering its role as a birthplace, this was done long before 300 years ago), why should other conventional weaponry be a limit?

Now this is just a personal theory, and has no base whatsoever, but I am sensing that part of the objection here is because it means that the melee-oriented Belkan magic would have been a match for conventional ranged weaponry.

Needless to say, there are certain sources here who would not be happy with that being canon.