Character Discussion - Kallen

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

The options boil down rather quickly when one becomes the enemy of the world. It's not a course that ends well. They can't exactly say, "We were just kidding, sorry about that."

I personally believe their plan involves taking over the world via whatever means necessary, unifying it in the process. Obviously we saw part of this when they tried to take over the UFN diplomatically. However since they didn't want to go down w/o a fight the UFN decided to make a war out of it, which Lelouch and Suzaku predicted and planned for.

It's not my opinion that they intend on dying, for the world would need guidance under their system. And nobody could really do that except Lelouch(the guide, the brains if you will), and Suzaku(the enforcers, the sword) to enforce the system onto those who would oppose it.

[morbosfist]

The way things have gone, they could die after defeating Damocles and their goal of world unification will succeed. Britannia, as it stands, is hanging together by the mere fact that Lelouch exists. The government is gone, nobility is dead, and Lelouch is the only symbol of authority that exists. Without him, Britannia will fall apart and the pieces will be nothing before the UFN, regardless of the damage that Lelouch has caused to the main Black Knights.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

The way things have gone, they could die after defeating Damocles and their goal of world unification will succeed. Britannia, as it stands, is hanging together by the mere fact that Lelouch exists. The government is gone, nobility is dead, and Lelouch is the only symbol of authority that exists. Without him, Britannia will fall apart and the pieces will be nothing before the UFN, regardless of the damage that Lelouch has caused to the main Black Knights.

The Bks can barely hold Britannia in place, they've said it themselves the power balance could change at any point. They merely attacked all the areas with w/e power they had to keep Lelouch from simply crushing them from all sides. Even if Suzaku and Lelouch perish (highly unlikely, better not fucking happen! ), there are still leaders who could pop up and take over Britannia and lead it back on it's old path. Remember, geass only makes the generals/nobles loyal to Lelouch, it doesn't make them mindless drones. If anything one can expect that he'd simply be turned into a martyr and his forces would still be fiercely loyal and would continue on a campaign that would ultimately result in the destruction of the UFN.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

The Bks can barely hold Britannia in place, they've said it themselves the power balance could change at any point. They merely attacked all the areas with w/e power they had to keep Lelouch from simply crushing them from all sides. Even if Suzaku and Lelouch perish (highly unlikely, better not fucking happen! ), there are still leaders who could pop up and take over Britannia and lead it back on it's old path. Remember, geass only makes the generals/nobles loyal to Lelouch, it doesn't make them mindless drones. If anything one can expect that he'd simply be turned into a martyr and his forces would still be fiercely loyal and would continue on a campaign that would ultimately result in the destruction of the UFN.

WHAT leaders? Britannia's capitol was bombed to nonexistent, most rebelling nobles were assassinated, and the rest are all under control of Geass and now no longer have that ambition since they were made to accept Lelouch's way. Britannia is toast if Lelouch 'vanishes.'

And no, the BK's are an even match for Britannian forces. The Powerbalance shift Xing-Ke was speaking of can go both ways. He just said the finishing blow HAS to be at Japan for less casualties.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

The Bks can barely hold Britannia in place, they've said it themselves the power balance could change at any point. They merely attacked all the areas with w/e power they had to keep Lelouch from simply crushing them from all sides. Even if Suzaku and Lelouch perish (highly unlikely, better not fucking happen! ), there are still leaders who could pop up and take over Britannia and lead it back on it's old path. Remember, geass only makes the generals/nobles loyal to Lelouch, it doesn't make them mindless drones. If anything one can expect that he'd simply be turned into a martyr and his forces would still be fiercely loyal and would continue on a campaign that would ultimately result in the destruction of the UFN.

If Lelouch were to die, the Britannians would be thrown into disarray. Their one and only source of leadership would be destroyed, leaving generals scattered all over the world with no clue as how to proceed. The UFN would mop the floor with them. Even if other leaders tried to pop up, they'd be disputed by other potential leaders. Infighting would commence, and there'd be no unified front.

I'm not saying they're going to die, merely showing how it would work.

[youngde]

Guys, we should probably keep the thread on track considering how hard mods came down on this forum yesterday. I.e., keep this thead on Kallen.

[morbosfist]

Good point.

Assuming the "tear apart Britannia" idea pans out, then what Kallen needs to save Lelouch from is actually dying. He could disappear all the same, maybe even go out as a hero if the truth of Damocles is revealed.

[yvj]

Because of recent developments FoxxFireArt has decided to wait until the last episode is aired before watching the last three eps in one shot. A pulling of the band aid if you will

That being said FoxxFireArt has seen the preview to EP 24 and here are his thoughts.

We know from Kallen's VA interview that the director told her that it wasn't until she kissed Lelouch did she realize she had feeling for Lelouch other then loyalty. Maybe that plays into her choice. She may be in love, but she must also know that the war can't go on.
Her actions here could say a lot. Seeing how it's inside a KMF hanger I don't see Suzaku come bursting in to stop her. Watching the preview it appears C.C. is nearby during this scene. In the shot of her smiling you can see her Lancelot behind her. I don't see how Kallen could have a better chance to kill him. Really, I see this playing out in one of three ways.
One: Kallen chooses not to kill him. (for whatever reason)
Two: C.C. shows up in her Pink Lancelot and holds Kallen back to give Lelouch time to get into his Shinkirou and escape.
Three: Someone else shows up just behind Kallen before she has the chance to make her choice and Lelouch slips away in the confusion to his Shinkirou. (I'm thinking this one is much more likely.)

Later in the preview it looks like the Tristan Twin shows up in a hanger, if not the same one; and there is a small flash of the Shinkirou launching the chest crystal in the same kind of room we see the Tristan Twin in. I don't really see the Guren in the shot of the Tristan so it's hard to tell. The problem is that the purple glow of the room lights are more like Black Knights then Britannian technology.
Notice near the end of the preview you can see the Shinkirou in it's collapsed transport mode.
http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/CO...eview%2003.jpg

In this better quality image of Kallen's attack you can see the float system of the Shinkirou through the smoke.
http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/CO...eview%2002.jpg
Knowing this we can see that for whatever reason Kallen doesn't kill Lelouch and he gets enough time to get into the Shinkirou.

[morbosfist]

You didn't copy the links correctly. In any case, the shot of the Shinkiro and the Tristan Twin is inside Damocles, and they're fighting one another. Whatever happens with Kallen, it will be between her, Lelouch, and probably C.C.

[peachzeldagirl]

Originally Posted by bran

i don't believe she'll be dead meat
kallen being killed just like that would be complete bullshit
being a main character in both seasons if she gets an ending ala knight of ten rolo's development would be 10 times better than hers

Yes all that character development between Lelouch and Kallen would have been for nothing if she was killed. And if she does die then at least Lelouch should be by her side during her last moments with all her questions answered.

[yvj]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

You didn't copy the links correctly.

My fault I fixed them.

[lovecakecookies]

I Just hope she chooses not to kill him... In the preview it really looks like she is about to do it, and they are usually misleading.. and TBH I don't want anyone to interrupt their confrontation, I just want her to somehow understand WHY he is doing what he is, and then let him go.. the only thing is why would she go back to fight Suzaku if she does indeed come to an understanding or whatever?

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

I Just hope she chooses not to kill him... In the preview it really looks like she is about to do it, and they are usually misleading.. and TBH I don't want anyone to interrupt their confrontation, I just want her to somehow understand WHY he is doing what he is, and then let him go.. the only thing is why would she go back to fight Suzaku if she does indeed come to an understanding or whatever?

Well from the preview i can see a giant mech not-friendly hand heading towards Lelouch but in the extended it is like crying her eyes out. I guess we just have to wait and see.
Honestly, i think she wants to kill him but she just can't. I hope there is a key convo/monologue or something, cause srsly, if there is interruption again, i'll gouge my eyes out.

[morbosfist]

She won't kill him. That she's crying is proof enough she's already hesitating. It won't take much to make her stop. She's already gotten too close to Lelouch to just cut out her feelings.

As for Suzaku, it will go one of two ways. Kallen might decide she is not going to let Lelouch go through with his plan, at least not in a way that will sacrifice him, and Suzaku gets in her way to make sure he does. Or, and this is the worst case, Suzaku attacks her directly under the belief that she is a weakness to Lelouch.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Well what makes you guys think that even if Kallen knew the end result that she would agree to go along and follow him? Kallen seems pretty content with the UFN way and doesn't seem to agree with Lelouch's methods even if it is for a better end. If her development was to show that she understands that Lelouch is a good person and has good intentions and is in love with him, is she still willing to walk the path of the demon with him like Suzaku is? She seems like a selfless person and won't do that. If anything she'll join up with Lelouch to stop Shniezel but I expect her to still stop his agenda in the end. It seems the only way to do that is to kill Lelouch personally. She may not like it and feel sad about it but I think she won't stop if she gets her chance. The only thing stopping her is that Lelouch is hard to kill.

[Baixinho]

Originally Posted by yvj

Because of recent developments FoxxFireArt has decided to wait until the last episode is aired before watching the last three eps in one shot. A pulling of the band aid if you will

That being said FoxxFireArt has seen the preview to EP 24 and here are his thoughts.

Well I think Foxx described the situation quite well. I would be rooting for CC interruption personally, as I have already said, but I could also see option 1 happening.


Also, as this seems to have been unnoticed, I'd like to know you guy's opinion on this post of mine :
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...ostcount=11105

Does anyone, aside from Kusaja who already replied, agree or disagree?

[Tael]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

Well what makes you guys think that even if Kallen knew the end result that she would agree to go along and follow him? Kallen seems pretty content with the UFN way and doesn't seem to agree with Lelouch's methods even if it is for a better end. If her development was to show that she understands that Lelouch is a good person and has good intentions and is in love with him, is she still willing to walk the path of the demon with him like Suzaku is? She seems like a selfless person and won't do that. If anything she'll join up with Lelouch to stop Shniezel but I expect her to still stop his agenda in the end.

More like if she knows the truth about Schneizel she'll follow Lelouch. As for the Zero Requiem, we know so little that its absurd to speculate on it at the moment. For all we know the Requiem is to stop Schneizel and break Britannia. The latter has already happened, the former not so much.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Originally Posted by Tael

More like if she knows the truth about Schneizel she'll follow Lelouch. As for the Zero Requiem, we know so little that its absurd to speculate on it at the moment. For all we know the Requiem is to stop Schneizel and break Britannia. The latter has already happened, the former not so much.

At the cost of fighting and destroying the UFN? If his end result was to kill Shniezel the UFN wouldn't stop him and would probably help him. But he made an enemy of both. As I said, yes I think that Lelouch intends Zero Requiem for a better end but just by threatening the UFN I think she doesn't believe the ends justify the means.

[linkinstreet]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

At the cost of fighting and destroying the UFN? If his end result was to kill Shniezel the UFN wouldn't stop him and would probably help him. But he made an enemy of both. As I said, yes I think that Lelouch intends Zero Requiem for a better end but just by threatening the UFN I think she doesn't believe the ends justify the means.

We'll see how it goes. For now the debate is Diethard will reveal everything, and thus turn the table on him.
Kallen meanwhile is not all about "I will kill you", but more like "Before you die explain to me why"

[Tael]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

At the cost of fighting and destroying the UFN? If his end result was to kill Shniezel the UFN wouldn't stop him and would probably help him. But he made an enemy of both. As I said, yes I think that Lelouch intends Zero Requiem for a better end but just by threatening the UFN I think she doesn't believe the ends justify the means.

Britannia is openly losing far more units than the UFN. Lelouch is throwing Britannia's military to the wind. He's not using Albion, he's allowing Kallen to run free while overextended, he destroyed his own troops with Fuji, and he's throwing group after group of wards at the FREIJAs. Lelouch is destroying Britannia. Aside from Fuji, the UFN have lost just about nothing.

You have to also realize that if the UFN had not sided with Schneizel in the open war, then nothing, and I mean nothing, would have stopped Schneizel from unloading several payloads of FREIJA onto anything that got in his way as Damocles climbs the atmosphere. By kidnapping the UFN representatives, the Avalon is stopping Schneizel from using FLEIJA and progressing forward normally.