[Manga] Chapter 444 Discussion

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Scorpian

Ah, so despite any clues, hints, foreshadowing or other implications given by the manga, his position will not falter, and he wont even consider the possibility (as I've seen many times before) and think like a human being. In other words, he thinks like an android. Thank you for this clarification; you saved me time as there will be no use in even arguing any further with someone who will not even consider anything unless specifically stated in bright bold letters, or inputed by a user, into main memory.

The problem, from what you have listed here, is that "clues, hints, and foreshadowing" can all be fairly subjective at times, especially when it is not fully understood how specific powers (present or future) work. So, while we can argue about Sasuke and Naruto, or other named characters, and their potential abilities, in the end, until the battle actually occurs (if it occurs), we are simply left with comparing possibilities (check out the Kakashi vs. Sasuke thread to learn more about where conjecture with few facts can lead you).

So, while I may find Phenomenal's methods anal at times (who doesn't like discussion based on conjecture and inferrence ), the fact that he refuses to take the extra step into the land of possibilities is not necessarily bad. It is, at worst, boring, but not bad (or somehow inhuman (which, imho is going a little to far)).

[Cub-Sama]

Changing the topic completely:

Has Pain told Naruto that Sasuke is in Akatsuki because I believe if told that would be another swift blow to his personality because before Itachi said if Sasuke was to become evil Naruto would have to stop him and after seeing how the chain of hatred continues, seeing people die his wide eyed idealism should have died a bit along with his friends, by telling him that we might see a complete 360 in his personality because he is already almost being pushed over the edge.

[Fran~]

Nop, Nagato hasn't told that to Naruto. But i think that Naruto has in mind what Yondaime told him about "the masked guy pulling the strings", being Naruto as naive, i can think that he will think that Sasuke was framed by Madara.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Changing the topic completely:

Has Pain told Naruto that Sasuke is in Akatsuki because I believe if told that would be another swift blow to his personality because before Itachi said if Sasuke was to become evil Naruto would have to stop him and after seeing how the chain of hatred continues, seeing people die his wide eyed idealism should have died a bit along with his friends, by telling him that we might see a complete 360 in his personality because he is already almost being pushed over the edge.

I don't think Naruto will be particularly fazed when he learns Sasuke is in Akatsuki. It's not like he refuses to acknowledge the fact that Sasuke is extremely dangerous, he's just already decided he will never give up on Sasuke no matter how bad he gets.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

I don't think Naruto will be particularly fazed when he learns Sasuke is in Akatsuki. It's not like he refuses to acknowledge the fact that Sasuke is extremely dangerous, he's just already decided he will never give up on Sasuke no matter how bad he gets.

Yeah but the thing is Naruto had hope in Sasuke believing that he had a shot at redemption even when Sasuke was hunting down Itachi they didn't really complain because he took down Akatsuki members and Orochimaru but if they find out he has joined the full fledged enemies of Konoha he will see that Sasuke is never coming back and bent on the destruction of Konoha. This will surely be a strike to his wide eyed idealism and he will finally grow up thus becoming more cynical and skeptical about things finally realizing how the world works and all it's flaws.

[naruske]

Frankly I don't believe Sasuke is in Akatsuki. I just think he's working with them but plans to betray them. Since when does Sasuke listen to anyone aside from being ordered to capture the 8 tails. They all did lose the cloaks.

[Hunter]

... Ok.
Don't complain here if someone give you a neg rep, do not advise people to give neg rep to someone else and in fact do not discuss about reputation point at all.
And while we're at it don't transform this thread into a Sasuke vs. Naruto debat.

@SpyderSidiouss undercovers from the hater coalition really? Part of the manga branch of the Illuminati right?
No don't answer that, let's try to stay at least even remotely on topic. Thank you.

[Scorpian]

Originally Posted by naruske

Frankly I don't believe Sasuke is in Akatsuki. I just think he's working with them but plans to betray them. Since when does Sasuke listen to anyone aside from being ordered to capture the 8 tails. They all did lose the cloaks.

He did it because Madara told him he'd give him a bijuu out of the whole thing. Would've sounded like a good deal to me too. That Madara lol. Telling everyone what they wanted to hear; Pein thought he'd get peace, Sasuke thought he'd get a new pet, Kakazu was probably promised riches beyond his wildest dreams lol.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Yeah but the thing is Naruto had hope in Sasuke believing that he had a shot at redemption even when Sasuke was hunting down Itachi they didn't really complain because he took down Akatsuki members and Orochimaru but if they find out he has joined the full fledged enemies of Konoha he will see that Sasuke is never coming back and bent on the destruction of Konoha. This will surely be a strike to his wide eyed idealism and he will finally grow up thus becoming more cynical and skeptical about things finally realizing how the world works and all it's flaws.

Actually, Itachi told Naruto that Sasuke could very well become an enemy that would attack Konoha and Naruto said that he still would never give up on him. And even before that, Jiraiya told Naruto that Sasuke was most likely a lost cause but Naruto's answer was basically the same. So I think Naruto is already prepared for the worse concerning Sasuke.

Really, Naruto's naivety about the harshness of the shinobi world were ended during the Zabuza/Haku arc. He's always optimistic, but that's his personality not because he oblivious to hard facts, he's already dealt with the loss of his sensei and seen his village wiped off the map. I think don't learning Sasuke's in Akatsuki when he's known for a long time that Sasuke's morals have severely deteriorated will suddenly turn Naruto into a brooding, more cynical person

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Actually, Itachi told Naruto that Sasuke could very well become an enemy that would attack Konoha and Naruto said that he still would never give up on him. And even before that, Jiraiya told Naruto that Sasuke was most likely a lost cause but Naruto's answer was basically the same. So I think Naruto is already prepared for the worse concerning Sasuke.

Really, Naruto's naivety about the harshness of the shinobi world were ended during the Zabuza/Haku arc. He's always optimistic, but that's his personality not because he oblivious to hard facts, he's already dealt with the loss of his sensei and seen his village wiped off the map. I think don't learning Sasuke's in Akatsuki when he's known for a long time that Sasuke's morals have severely deteriorated will suddenly turn Naruto into a brooding, more cynical person

That's why I think someone from the village should kill Nagato...it should be done with Naruto deciding not to kill Nagato just to have someone kill Nagato leaving Naruto in shock...or something like that... of course that because I want to see some of the other teams to be shown a little more

[Sazelyt]

Despite what happened with Orochimaru and his past filled with cruel acts, Jiraiya still had some strange feelings for him. At least he didn't show an obvious hatred, and, for instance, focused on the positivity about Sandaime's death rather than negativity about Orochimaru. If Jiraiya is that way, and after many years, Naruto will not be any worse. And, if Naruto learns about the Uchiha past, he will be much more patient about Sasuke and of course fee much more graceful towards Sasuke. Not necessarily something you may want, as it may result in a lot more casualties, but, there is a good chance for it to happen.

From now on, it will be Naruto's maturity and character development that will be put on test, rather than his strength.

Regarding Nagato, I would prefer a death that will be triggered by his own actions as I consider this a better fate for him, especially if he clears his soul. Since based on what he did, even if he becomes a better person, it will not be a good idea to make him survive. But, as a reward, he can do something good for Konoha and die during that process. It is cruel, but that is the best ending he should get.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Actually, Itachi told Naruto that Sasuke could very well become an enemy that would attack Konoha and Naruto said that he still would never give up on him. And even before that, Jiraiya told Naruto that Sasuke was most likely a lost cause but Naruto's answer was basically the same. So I think Naruto is already prepared for the worse concerning Sasuke.

Really, Naruto's naivety about the harshness of the shinobi world were ended during the Zabuza/Haku arc. He's always optimistic, but that's his personality not because he oblivious to hard facts, he's already dealt with the loss of his sensei and seen his village wiped off the map. I think don't learning Sasuke's in Akatsuki when he's known for a long time that Sasuke's morals have severely deteriorated will suddenly turn Naruto into a brooding, more cynical person

My arguement is that Naruto in the recent chapters has lost some of his idealism and started to realize the reality of things, he knows he needs to grow up and like Pain says through feeling pain we grow and Naruto has felt that pain and started to grow. He has to balance the scales whether he will continue to let Sasuke do as he please or stop him (by stop I mean kill him) before he causes more devestation to the village.

Pain has caused more character development in Naruto that any other character he is showing him that the idealism Naruto holds is nothing in the face of reality and Jiraiya's teachings is nonsense. It wont be long before Naruto links up what they said and realize Sasuke is the living embodiment of the cycle of hatred

[Sakuranbo]

Originally Posted by naruske

Frankly I don't believe Sasuke is in Akatsuki. I just think he's working with them but plans to betray them. Since when does Sasuke listen to anyone aside from being ordered to capture the 8 tails. They all did lose the cloaks.

I'm anticipating Madara giving Sasuke the lecture of a lifetime for agreeing t "take care" of the 8-tails yet failing miserably, not to mention making Madara look like a fool in front of Kisame and Zetsu after he boasted how great Sasuke was.

[Scorpian]

Originally Posted by Mateus

I'm anticipating Madara giving Sasuke the lecture of a lifetime for agreeing t "take care" of the 8-tails yet failing miserably, not to mention making Madara look like a fool in front of Kisame and Zetsu after he boasted how great Sasuke was.

I dont think it was that miserable a failure all things considered: the hachibi was out of his league and he wasn't fully healed after fighting Itachi. Besides, Madara never tried to say he was "great". After Konan questioned Madara because Sasuke was still pretty new and all, Madara only said he vouches for him... Thats not boasting that someone is great... The only person that really looks like a fool is Sasuke for underestimating killer bee.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

My arguement is that Naruto in the recent chapters has lost some of his idealism and started to realize the reality of things, he knows he needs to grow up and like Pain says through feeling pain we grow and Naruto has felt that pain and started to grow. He has to balance the scales whether he will continue to let Sasuke do as he please or stop him (by stop I mean kill him) before he causes more devestation to the village.

Pain has caused more character development in Naruto that any other character he is showing him that the idealism Naruto holds is nothing in the face of reality and Jiraiya's teachings is nonsense. It wont be long before Naruto links up what they said and realize Sasuke is the living embodiment of the cycle of hatred

It's the opposite. Nagato's purpose is showing Naruto that Jiraiya's dream is very difficult to achieve, much more difficult than Naruto ever realized, but not impossible. Naruto's going to embrace Jiraiya's dream and his own goal to save Sasuke even more now.

I'm anticipating Madara giving Sasuke the lecture of a lifetime for agreeing t "take care" of the 8-tails yet failing miserably, not to mention making Madara look like a fool in front of Kisame and Zetsu after he boasted how great Sasuke was.

Doubt it. Madara's not Sasuke's boss. Sasuke only agreed to capture the Hachibi as part of a deal where he would receive the bijuu's power and he decided he didn't need that anyway.

I'm guessing Madara will send out Zetsu and/or Kisame to capture Kira Bi or take care of the job himself.

[kenjiharima]

After seeing the scanlated 444. Just wow...it feels like civilians in the casualties of war, in Naruto's case...Ninja Wars.

[Wargumm1i]

Is there a release this week.

[yaluckyboy]

Anyone notice how Naruto's got some kind of fusion of his Sennin Eyes and his Kyuubi Eyes? It's real weird! He's got the markings on the side of his eyes like in Sennin and the feral whiskers like in Kyuubi and his fangs are only partially extended.

I'll bet it gives him access to his Kyuubi Chakra in a "Safe and Controlled" way. This way, he won't need to stand still in Sennin and he won't go berserk in Kyuubi.

Spoiler for weird eyes:

[SeanQ]

Originally Posted by yaluckyboy

Anyone notice how Naruto's got some kind of fusion of his Sennin Eyes and his Kyuubi Eyes? It's real weird! He's got the markings on the side of his eyes like in Sennin and the feral whiskers like in Kyuubi and his fangs are only partially extended.

I'll bet it gives him access to his Kyuubi Chakra in a "Safe and Controlled" way. This way, he won't need to stand still in Sennin and he won't go berserk in Kyuubi.

Spoiler for weird eyes:

sage mode requires you to stand still in order to gather energy...that's why Pa and Ma toad had to be summoned by Jiraiya in order for him to fight in sage mode w/out having to meditate every so often, though now that Pa is dead...not sure if both are needed to gather energy for the sage person.
________
Og kush seeds

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by SeanQ

sage mode requires you to stand still in order to gather energy...that's why Pa and Ma toad had to be summoned by Jiraiya in order for him to fight in sage mode w/out having to meditate every so often, though now that Pa is dead...not sure if both are needed to gather energy for the sage person.

I just thought of something.... can't he place a kage bunshin or take the kyuubi itself and use it somehow to gather natural energy for himself? From within?