Valkyria Chronicles - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Illieas

Spoiler for still disagree with more game spoilers:

it was only a passing comment was said. She ended up in squad 7 with rifle no lance no shield. seriously you really think Damon would left the militia have the WMD? this was a giant plot hole. sure later she think of herself in this way to sacrifice herself to the tank which was great but really the time in between was unrealistic in depiction.

as for the squad acting this way. well last time they saw her was like a robot. unresponsive to her "family" or anyone and started to killing people. They weren't by her when she woke up so for all they know the alicia could be permanently in that state. also its rather they were voicing their concern at the situation. they want to know what happened before they could form the full judgment. these were initial thought thrown out in the group with confidentiality.
Will she still be the same alicia? why is it when she was in valkyria form she was different ? what would the other squads say about the situation when they don't know alicia being nice girl? i think they would think she is scary. if everyone is saying it then it would be stupid to think the sevens don't at least give it at least a thought.

sure it was melodramatic a points but in realism it is better

Why did Damon not recruit her? Simply put, he didn't know. He never did, even until his fall from grace he never knew what the hell was that thing which not only saved Gallian forces but thrashed an Imperial stronghold in the process. Nobody from the regular army recognized Alicia, why should they? After all, she was orphaned at a young age and from the countryside. Moreover, Eleanor kept the incident in a low profile and probably did not make a full report. Moreover, the platoon commanders had no authority to speak to the general directly unless summoned upon, thus severing any possibility for the truth behind this case to be known by Damon.

Moreover, why should being frightened be their only response to Alicia's transformation? You are really not convincing me.

Because she changed? That it? I mean, thats your best argument? That we should be frightened because a dear person we know changed? Hell, I felt more pity than fright.

Originally Posted by golthin

I am amazed at how the people that have played the game are still surprised about how this anime really screwed the game characters. I guess it should have been obvious a long time ago that you shouldn't make comparisons between the two anymore.

Sometimes, its not about comparison really. At this point, its more about the idiocy and the utter unrealism of the anime itself.

- Tak

[yezhanquan]

Reading historical accounts of WWII would be enough to steel your stomach. Goes back to the first rule of war: to fight, you must disregard the humanity of your opponent, for if you hesitate to shoot, you may not have the luck of the other guy hesitating.

Like I said above, there can (and should) be whispers. But ultimately, the soldiers want to go home in one piece ASAP.

[Sassarai]

Originally Posted by Illieas

BEST EPISODE OF THE ANIME

I really wonder what people problem with this episode was or is it just cool to join in on the hate train?

It's never cool to join the hate train. Think for yourself!


My problem with this ep is mainly due to squad 7's reaction towards Alicia like many have stated. The episode was extremely predictable and the talk between Welkin and Fabio felt generic. I still think it was a decent episode though!


I mean come on!

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Illieas

really? she kill hundreds of soldiers in ease. it would not be weird for them to be uncertain that the alicia they know is not the same alicia that she is now. she was unresponsive and was very stoic and went on being very badass full murder mode. Do they know she isn't still in that state a unresponsive killing machine?
They haven't seen her since she went on a rampage. cause as seen in the episode after she faint she is placed in a bed away from the squad.

As you can see next episode they eventually get over their confusion and realize that they were stupid and want her back. It is like Saikano or even in Black lagoon when the kid decided to run away from his maid as she murdered people who were kidnapping him.
welkin stood firm that he wanted her back while alicia. alicia being the one want to separate cause how you like a monster blah blah.

if you think the dramas is too much. fine but it is miles ahead of the game. the game only had a passing comment about worshipping her and that was it. and next chapter she is a wielding a rifle going into battle.

Which do you think is the bigger plot hole nothing about it or some drama about it?
I have given reasoning why i think it is great episode as it was the first time it out did the game. dismissing my arguments out of hand using a smorgasbord of facepalm doesn't help your case and make you seem more immature.

Give me a break. I'll say it again. This is a Squad of soldiers. A squad that is like family. They've fought together. Killed together. Lost loved ones together. Watched their countryside burn to the ground. Watched their homes be destroyed as they fought on. Do you honestly believe, soldiers would shun her after what they saw her do? She made absolutely no threatening actions towards Gallian forces. Unconcious or not, these soldiers are not 12 year old kids. They've already experienced some pretty bad stuff, and would not reject her like that.

This is fake drama. Unrealistic drama. Poorly written, out of place drama. This anime is so pathetic compared to the game, I won't spend one penny for the DVDs'. Why support something had horribly written, directed, and animated as this? Disagree all you want. But go talk to real soldiers before drawing up your conclusions about how realistic Squad 7 acted here.

[yezhanquan]

Then again, none had fought alongside a super-soldier before....

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Then again, none had fought alongside a super-soldier before....

The bonds that soldiers share... Civilians can't expect to understand it.

[yezhanquan]

Well, that I can. I was in the Army for 2 years, so I do know a thing or two about military bonding. If soldiers can't bond, operations would be compromised. Wild Blue from the late Stephen Ambrose says it better than I do:

"It was critical for each crew to develop and maintain a close bond....."

"They were on their way to being men at war. They would need to have a closeness unknown to civilians, no matter what the civilians did. Their lives would be at stake. Every one of them had to depend, absolutely, on everyone else doing his job right. They had to not only get along with one another but also to have unquestioning faith in each other... "

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Well, that I can. I was in the Army for 2 years, so I do know a thing or two about military bonding. If soldiers can't bond, operations would be compromised. Wild Blue from the late Stephen Ambrose says it better than I do:

"It was critical for each crew to develop and maintain a close bond....."

"They were on their way to being men at war. They would need to have a closeness unknown to civilians, no matter what the civilians did. Their lives would be at stake. Every one of them had to depend, absolutely, on everyone else doing his job right. They had to not only get along with one another but also to have unquestioning faith in each other... "

Then you understand completely what I mean. If Alicia had made ANY kind of threat towards Squad 7, then they might have had a reason to fear her. But she made none. She only attacked the enemy Valkyria. This is Alicia we're talking about here. Second to Isara in being the kindest person in the Squad. After what they've all shared, there's no way they could turn their backs on her just because she's now known as a Valkyria. Their bond, their relationship, is already on another level from just mere classmates, or co-workers.

[Illieas]

Originally Posted by Tak

Why did Damon not recruit her? Simply put, he didn't know. He never did, even until his fall from grace he never knew what the hell was that thing which not only saved Gallian forces but thrashed an Imperial stronghold in the process. Nobody from the regular army recognized Alicia, why should they? After all, she was orphaned at a young age and from the countryside. Moreover, Eleanor kept the incident in a low profile and probably did not make a full report. Moreover, the platoon commanders had no authority to speak to the general directly unless summoned upon, thus severing any possibility for the truth behind this case to be known by Damon.

Moreover, why should being frightened be their only response to Alicia's transformation? You are really not convincing me.

Because she changed? That it? I mean, thats your best argument? That we should be frightened because a dear person we know changed? Hell, I felt more pity than fright.



Sometimes, its not about comparison really. At this point, its more about the idiocy and the utter unrealism of the anime itself.

- Tak

Spoiler for game video and more disagreeing:

well it went from happy nice girl that is helping us out to a stoic killing machine. I think it would effect you in the what the heck had happened to her kinda thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJSLE...eature=related

5:46
"It made military history not only with its ferocity but with the duel that ended it"

um it is in the history books that two Valkyries did battle to say that Damon would not know this is pushing the believability for me.

6:36
"everyone is looking at me differently now like they are scared"

this quote itself gives evidence that they indeed were scared and also that they knew who the Valkyrie was.

next chapter they throw themselves at her feet. i think your description of why damon didn't grab her for his use is spurious at best

there two pieces of evidence. in game to point to my arguments.

other than that i think we are in an en passe at the reaction of the sevens to have your squad mate turn out to be a ultra powerful being of destruction. cause these are just at best what we feel they would act at least initially.

[Sassarai]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Then again, none had fought alongside a super-soldier before....

I would be so happy if I fought with a super soldier. More chances of winning the war and surviving. It's when the super soldier is on the other side that I'm afraid of! I wouldn't piss them off and get myself killed! What is there for squad 7 to ponder? Getting killed by Alicia? She already saved them once so they owe her their lives anyway.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Then you understand completely what I mean. If Alicia had made ANY kind of threat towards Squad 7, then they might have had a reason to fear her. But she made none. She only attacked the enemy Valkyria. This is Alicia we're talking about here. Second to Isara in being the kindest person in the Squad. After what they've all shared, there's no way they could turn their backs on her just because she's now known as a Valkyria. Their bond, their relationship, is already on another level from just mere classmates, or co-workers.

Uhm, what you say about comraderie is an illusion (I served 4 years in military ending ranked as staff sergeant). The first thing, although a joke, what I heard about "Kameradschaft ist wenn ein Kamerad schafft" which means: A comrade is then a comrade when he works. I don't want to blow any dream bubbles about this. The interactions between comrades is unique and is formed within your time when are serving in the military. But this just works fine until something happes. I think all of you remember Full Metal Jacket. The portrait of comraderie like you are saying ends up when Private Paula Donut made the hole unit suffer. Now this is a point where the comrades punished a comrade. So you see, comrades also go after a comrade if one falls out of the chain.

Now going back from the anime I have to admit that how the squad talks behind Alicia is nothing unusual. That is what you regular do, but it was actually unnecessary. From the game I know that after Alicia has transformed into a Valkyria, Welkin gave the order to avoid her or get too near of her because she was not concious in her Valkyr status and through this friendly fire may be possible.

[yezhanquan]

Like I said, at the end of the day, what most soldiers want, more than anything else, is to return home in one piece, and try to forget that they fought in a war. Guess why historians usually have a hard time compiling accounts of ground troops in any war?

Also, avoiding friendly fire is an important skill which should not be underestimated.

[Illieas]

Originally Posted by Sassarai

It's never cool to join the hate train. Think for yourself!


My problem with this ep is mainly due to squad 7's reaction towards Alicia like many have stated. The episode was extremely predictable and the talk between Welkin and Fabio felt generic. I still think it was a decent episode though!

agreed but i like this episode because it address concerns i had with the game. his episode fleshes out an area i thought needed more meat. that is why i think this one best was because the earlier ones had shoddy pacing and game version were better.

I agree aisha's reaction and some them call for her gone was well bluntly melodramatic and unnecessary (just stating concern would have been enough). i think the base idea of the squad airing out concerns was a necessary component. which would have been one welkin rousing speech to get everyone back to their senses. everything in the series could have been better done in many ways. but since the having alicia there to hear it screwed that up we have Operation "sorry we were wrong! come back!" at least i hope that is what happens. less moping more action next episode is also a hope

[kk2extreme]

Lulu Max need some wins against squad 7, kinda feel sorry for that guy, he is seriously the coolest dude in the show imo but never get a major victory in the battle field (from what I see in the show).

[yezhanquan]

Hence, he's like Lulu. Both had balls thrown to them, and they have to hold it like an idiot for the plot to flow.

[HunterSeeker]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Then you understand completely what I mean. If Alicia had made ANY kind of threat towards Squad 7, then they might have had a reason to fear her. But she made none. She only attacked the enemy Valkyria. This is Alicia we're talking about here. Second to Isara in being the kindest person in the Squad. After what they've all shared, there's no way they could turn their backs on her just because she's now known as a Valkyria. Their bond, their relationship, is already on another level from just mere classmates, or co-workers.

Seriously you don't get the point all along.
Yes, undoubtfully Alicia is one important member of 7th, or like you said a family member of it. She's one of the kindest person in the squad, and some of them are also her long-time friends......But these are basing on the fact (or the knowledge) that she is an ordinary, Voluntary Army soldier------Not the unconscious walking WMD (and she doesn't even know about it, since it's a completely different matter if she knew but not saying it) from a race that exterminated its own race like when she fought Selveria. When she's not conscious, who knew when she will attack her comrades?

You may say it's unappropriate for thsoe long-time comrades to fear a member from a family, but they have the right to fear. History already showed us that unknown to something may lead to fear towards it------from ancient-enough fire to modern Typhoon Sub. Simply said, if you watched Band of Brothers (or read its novel version) then the "legends" of Lt. Speirs had already spread fear among 506th even when almost no one saw his "deeds" in person.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by HunterSeeker

You may say it's unappropriate for thsoe long-time comrades to fear a member from a family, but they have the right to fear. History already showed us that unknown to something may lead to fear towards it------from ancient-enough fire to modern Typhoon Sub. Simply said, if you watched Band of Brothers (or read its novel version) then the "legends" of Lt. Speirs had already spread fear among 506th even when almost no one saw his "deeds" in person.

Good point you mention that because there is one point to add about being a "comrade" and having "comrades".

To be a comrade does not limit to the unit or the armed force type. If you are in the army, then you are comraded with all soldiers of your nation or even cross border in allied forces.

At the end comradism only means that you are civilians wearing the same ugly clothes, sharing the same toilet, showers, working for nation and country and share the same housings. In addition you help each other out if your comrades get in trouble against other comrades

[grylsyjaeger]

Just watched this episode and I don't know whether to laugh at how corny it all is or cry at how they butchered such a great game...

I'm sick of the stupid anime love cliches and the scene where Welkin questioned Faldio was pathetic. In the game Welkin had some balls on him when he confronted Faldio man to man and had a good idea on what had happened.

In the anime as usual Welkin didn't have a bloody clue and looked about as good as a stunned Mullet when Faldio in all his glory simply rattled off his latest list of achievements where shooting Alicia was just thrown in as after thought.

Shooting Alicia? A kidnapped the Princess! *Achievement Unlocked*

And then the nerve of his parting comment.

The only thing I'll give the anime is the plans of the Army to use Alicia against her will. That was one of the things in the game I thought was odd.

And don't get me started about the whole Alica and Selvaria in the research lab/orphanage together.

[don_Durandal]

True, Illeas has a point about Damon. It was odd in the game how he didn't attempt to draft Alicia under his direct subordination. But then again this is General Damon we are speaking about...

The way Alicia's breakdown is portrayed is radically different however. In the game it was more gradual

Spoiler for game spoiler:

, with Alicia being shown as disturbed and uncomfortable at first and then finally breaking down before Operation Maiden's Shield

. Here in the anime it looks like they went for permanent angst right off the bat.

[yezhanquan]

Now, linking Selvaria and Alicia together could have been a decent plot point. But, this team had gotten so many other aspects wrong that I won't bet on them making something good out of this particular point.