2009-09-03, 12:50 | Link #2041 | |
fire of fires
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vesuvius
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This is exactly what I thought when I came up with this theory. It would be going away from Ryukishi's norm, but it would work. I doubt it, though.
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2009-09-03, 12:59 | Link #2042 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston
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Alright, a basic theory of mine. I'll be describing how the murders were actually pulled off later, but for now, here is what I suspect to be sort of the background to the story:
Spoiler for General Theory:
So that's it for now. Thoughts? |
2009-09-03, 13:37 | Link #2043 | |
Storyteller
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Spoiler for ep4 red truths included:
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2009-09-03, 14:24 | Link #2045 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Spoiler for episode5:
Different reasoning but similar conclusion compared to my theory. There is just a noticeable error: the riddle wasn't disclosed until 1984, so in 1980 didn't exist, and Battler couldn't have made such a promise.
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2009-09-03, 14:26 | Link #2046 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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Probably the tool used to knock on the door at midnight...
Well, you can never "prove" a theory in science. All you can do is collect overwhelming evidence supporting your conclusion. Both aspects of quantum theory and relativity are supported by a huge amount of experimental evidence. Unless they're only a special case of a larger theory, there's almost no debate about whether they are true, at least in most situations that we can observe. The largest difference between good sci-fi and fantasy is that sci-fi provides a plausible explanation. Good sci-fi is impossible to disprove with current scientific knowledge. Good fantasy is almost always impossible, and obviously so. (unless you're willing to buy an extreme twist in the known laws of physics) The only ones who seem to care about strict mystery standards are Bern and friends, and they only care about it on the game board. Obviously, the Meta world cannot fall under the same rules by the simple inclusion of the colored texts, among other things.
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Last edited by chronotrig; 2009-09-03 at 14:37. |
2009-09-03, 14:34 | Link #2048 |
fire of fires
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Vesuvius
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I like to think the figure is Natsuhi. It would fit her place in the game. ...However, why would she be in a cloak...
I bet we'll get more into the portrait in EP6-7, because it has too much symbolism in it not to be at least mentioned. ...W-Wait, there was another figure in the trees?!? |
2009-09-03, 14:44 | Link #2050 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston
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Battler's sin is that he didn't keep his promise to Shannon, and if he had kept his promise, Shannon probably would not have been persuaded into the whole murder plan of George, and thus the plan would not have gotten off the ground as George would not have had not nearly as much motive to kill everyone and without Shannon would lack much of the means in the first place to commit those murders. Quote:
Episode 1: Shannon fakes her death, the two are working with Nanjo, who persuades the others that Shannon is dead. Shannon proceeds to run amok afterwards and kills virtually everyone else (Kanon's death is explained by a trap being laid there as Shannon uses the place as an escape route, but I have also not completely ruled out Shkannon.) Episode 2: The two work with Genji and Nanjo at first, and things go according to plan for a bit. However, someone figures out those two and kills those two, but the rest of the family kill each other out of fear and paranoia. Episode 3: For whatever reason, Shannon starts backing out of the plan, and George in a panic ends up killing her and all the servants as a way to cover it up and follow the epitaph. The pair thus this round don't really do anything, but someone else (depending on the situation, but I suspect Kyrie in a lot of the scenarios) starts killing people, and the family breaks down as once again they kill each other out of fear and paranoia. Episode 4: Not really sure, that arc was so damn weird. I'll have to think harder about that one later. Episode 5: The two are planning to work with Genji, but Battler solving the riddle throws everything in disarray. George and Genji want to keep going so they can keep the gold all to themselves, but Shannon, due to her love for Battler, decides "fuck it" and kills George and Genji, and then kills the other three because they're in the same room as George to make sure she gets away with it. I really don't know anything about the rest of the arc, so I can't really explain Krauss's and Hideyoshi's deaths as I don't know anything about them. Quote:
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2009-09-03, 18:29 | Link #2052 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Not that I completely disagree with your theory Kaiba, but was there a bit of a clue between Shannon and Battler? We are supposed to be able to know and deduce all elements now. As long as that part as a single hint of it, it can stand.
Besides, we've seen reason for the murders, but for 'Battler's benefit' has never been denied, right? Also, let me add something. You made a solid point with the gold. What about the ring then? I doubt Shannon had a key to wherever Kinzo was.
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2009-09-06, 13:40 | Link #2054 | |
The unlucky one
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
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My take on the actual discussion
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And to be honest...the Shannon did the killing thing seems reasonable but the promise thing feels really fishy. Especially the "marriage promise" which girl who is still a bit right in the head would take such a promise of a 12 year old after six years not seeing him at all serious? And even start killing for it (cause because of the broken promise (the sin) people die, you cannot tell me that george convinced her doing it for their relationship if it is about Battler's and Shannon's broken marriage promise ) and as if killing his family would make him remember and even marry her. I mean Spoiler for Higurashi kai:
And maybe I missed it or something were was it actually said that Beatrice loves Battler? I will be ashamed for missing that... Also I think we are to much focusing on romatic love, after all this is a story which main characters are a family. and even between none blood-related characters love was shown. Best examples are Shannon/Kanon, Kumasawa/Shannon (it was said that Kumasawa was like a mother for all servants) and the friendship love Shannon/Jessica (Jessica describes Shannon as her oldest friend etc). Also why even show us all those totally nice George/shannon secnese be it in the past or the magic scenes if Beatrice wants Battler to remember their love. i mean it's like trying to sell somethign but praising the other merchants stuff instead of your own (okay that example is a bit badly choosen) Furthermore doesn't it feel odd that Shannon in her POV never thinks about Battler at all? Not even in the past events (her date with George, the talks with Jessica about love (and why even talk about hwo wonderful George is with her if she loves Battler etc.) if she loves him so dearly? And why even get close to George? That doesn't make sense to me... Again about that promise thing...if there was ever a promise wouldn't it be something more like "I'll get you off this boring island" ? That sounds more like Battler to me and more like somthing Shannon would cling to. Waiting for him to get her of the island not doing it herself. (I still think the promise thing is fishy but oh well) I am still pretty found of the idea that Beatrice is still just metaphorically and represents someone who kills out of love. (sounds hypocritical ^^; And Eva-Beato represents someone who kills for the inheritance/gold or for becoming the head. Also @Kaiba I think your explanation for motives and how the murders are done are really well to be frank really unrealistic and at times even hypocritical. Most people seem just to be killed to follow the epitaph in ep 5. Which is strange cause you explained that Shannon just says "Fuck it" if she really thinks that then why follow the epitaph anyway? In ep 3...yeah george just kill all the servants to cover up one or two deaths and then play innocent and do nothing anymore. Cause the killings of 6 people is so much more decent and makes people search for the culprit much lesser than if you only kill 2 persons especially since it's rather well known that George loves Shannon...that would make him really supicious, I mean everyone kills her/his loved ones, George you are a genius! The whole the family kills each other out o paranoia seems unlikeable, you guys know why? If I kill someone out of paranoia I don't start searching for a stake then comeback and stake that person (or the dead body) (though I think this might have happened in Ep 3 but I kinda don't buy it) In Ep 1 ...Kanon can't be killed with a trap as you say cause it was stated in red that he wasn't. Shkanon? Wouldn't make much sense in your theory cause why would she even do that? 'cept "The person dead in the shed at the first twilight was actually Kanon, Shannon killed him and then dressed up as him for the rest of the episode. This way she could fake her death without having Nanjo as an accomplice and trick Hideyoshi at the same time." Seems still unlikely but oh well. Also your "Genji and George wanted the gold all by themselves", well excuse me but loyal Genji and already rich George who doesn't have an financial problems would have done that? and about the rest of Ep 5 Spoiler for Ep 5:
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2009-09-06, 15:04 | Link #2055 | ||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston
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Who were the only two identified corpses there? Shannon and Krauss. And yes, that does mean you can argue Krauss is alive, though I don't think so and I think half of his face was smashed so we wouldn't be all suspicious of Shannon being the only person with half her face gone. |
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2009-09-06, 15:22 | Link #2056 | ||||||
The unlucky one
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
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But isn't it rather well strange for Shannon just killing of a little innocent girl and her best friend just to get away with it? Quote:
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2009-09-06, 17:11 | Link #2057 |
Observer
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Unreality
Age: 35
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I've read a theory , and I think it's the most appropriate
the culpirit(s) is not one of the 18, but an outsider since beato stated in red on the end of the four game that there's no one on the island and she will kill battler .. that's don't exclude that on that time the culpirit was on the harport of kuwadorian on a boat ( he's on the sea , not on the island ) and he can join the island and kill battler |
2009-09-06, 17:55 | Link #2058 | |
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Artist
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ImaginaryLand
Age: 34
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And that's one of the 17. (as Kinzo is dead and Erika is confirmed not to be the culprit)
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2009-09-06, 23:38 | Link #2060 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston
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And as I view Shannon as a murderer in at least Arcs 1 and 2, no I don't really have any problem with her murdering Jessica and Maria, especially if she didn't, they'd blab on her killing George. Quote:
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