2009-09-29, 11:15 | Link #1505 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
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人が夢を見ると「儚い」という字になるんや
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Because i am a Japanese, i can understand a joke of Hitagi. I wanted to know, how do users from non-Japanese zone understand the joke. 私は日本人なので、ひたぎの冗談を解せるのだけれど、非日本語圏のユーザーがどう受け止めているか知りたか ったんです。 「人」が「夢」を見ると「儚」という字になるのは、日本人がよく口にする冗談だけど、漢字文化圏以外の人に は、ちょっとばかり難しいと推察します。 その上、「人」に「儚」と書いて「アララギ」と読ませて、新しい漢字の誕生というのは、日本人でも一瞬、考 えてしまう冗談だと思います。 阿良々木君が「恋人との初デート」に「儚」い期待を抱いていた「人」だから、「人」に「儚」と書いて「アラ ラギ」になるわけです。 こんな入り組んだ(あるいは、文化的な文脈に依存する)洒落まで、英語(あるいは他の言語に)訳すファンサ ブ職人には、敬意を表するしかありません。 |
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2009-09-29, 11:35 | Link #1506 | |
著述遮断
Join Date: Jul 2009
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2009-09-29, 12:05 | Link #1507 |
シェリルの為に!
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Proper translation is pretty hard. I guess the best way is to use a similar pun, but that loses meaning too. Take extramf's example for instance. 儚 means fleeting or transparent and is made out of the dream kanji (夢) and the person radical (人) so "a person who dreams gives birth to the word 'fleeting''' just doesn't have the same impact since you only get the meaning, but not the visual. And I don't there actually a way to work 人+儚 in English since it's also pronounced Araragi. This was one of the jokes that I left untranslated in chapter 3, if I remember right. 儚 is actually a good word to describe translation as well.
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2009-09-29, 12:51 | Link #1508 | |
著述遮断
Join Date: Jul 2009
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If you think about it... dreams are fleeting. like roses they last but a meager second in the eye of the universe. Using the example above you seem to be describing a frivolous person. A person who is prone to fantasy and daydreaming who's real life is mired by their inability to deal with reality. Someone whos life could be seen as, frivolous, unimportant to the universe ? End try.... Most English speakers do not read enough good English literature. So we have trouble when translating, because we barely master our own language. We don't have enough literary references to draw from to make clear the ideas being put forth in the Japanese text. Language is just a method of communicating ideas, so I am sure the ideas can translate... but the trouble is, how do we construct the words to convey the ideas. A teacher once told me, in order to master Spanish you have to master English. Our English building blocks are very poor on average, so translation and fan-subbing will always be a challenge. Right now, as a native speaker I struggle to improve my own native tongue since I really realize that it makes my mind work in a more clear and concise manner. I can create and communicate my ideas more clearly. Therefore it may be possible that once my native linguistic system is up to par, i could orthogonally transfer that skill toward my learning of Japanese (not the structure but the improved way of translating communicating ideas) |
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2009-09-29, 13:25 | Link #1510 | |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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2009-09-29, 14:53 | Link #1511 | |
著述遮断
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Thanks. Funny you mention Zen. There is something I learned about language while researching zen. Improve your language improve your thoughts. Improve your thoughts improve your language. Many English speakers have bad linguistic habits that ignore precision. As a result we tend to have muddled and imprecise thoughts. Therefore this condition hinders our ability to clearly and precisely translate from one language to another. The fact is we think using language. Therefore if we cant use our native language very well, then it follows that our thoughts cannot be formulated well also. Lord knows I need help to master English even though it is native to me. The most powerful tool available to the human mind to facilitate reason is language. He who masters language can inherently, if he so chooses, master reason. |
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2009-10-02, 08:35 | Link #1515 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Thank you for your answer. Quote:
The following words are included in the doctrine of the zen. 教外別伝/kyougaibetsuden 不立文字/furyuumonji 「教外別伝」There is Satori that Zen priests aim at outside a doctrine. 「不立文字」Satori cannot be expressed with words. All sutras are signposts to Satori. This doctrine doesn't disregard the language. This means that Zen priests need to polish linguistic competence. Apart from it. here is an interview of NISHIO Isin as follows. http://blog.livedoor.jp/geek/archives/50852177.html He said. 「アニメ化も実写化も漫画化もドラマCD化も出来ない、メディアミックス不可能な小説は果たして書けるのだ ろうか」 "Am I able to write novels that can not be adapted as the animated movie?" That novel is Bakemonogatari. Much expression depending on Kanji appears into Bakemonogatari novels. I feel admiration for the ability of the Shaft very much. Last edited by extramf; 2009-10-02 at 18:11. |
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2009-10-06, 23:27 | Link #1516 |
Sav'aaq!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 51
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So does anyone know if any sub group is going to be rereleasing episodes 1 and 2 (and later once they come out) with subbed commentary tracks? The in-character commentary is such an incredibly awesome and original idea that I can't believe someone hasn't released a dual-subs version already. Is it more work than I'm thinking it would be (a little more than a normal episode)?
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2009-10-07, 07:14 | Link #1517 | |
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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2009-10-07, 10:17 | Link #1518 |
Banned
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A not so reliable (and NSFW) source says that the first volume surpassed even K-On! on sales ... should I have hope for the future (i.e. can someone confirm)?
Maybe we'll see the rest of the novels or other of the writer's works animated in the future |
2009-10-07, 10:34 | Link #1519 | |
~AD~
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Browse on youtube for its preview... |
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Tags |
adventure, comedy, fantasy, romance, shaft, supernatural |
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