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Old 2009-12-04, 14:03   Link #341
SagaraSouske
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irvinethearcher View Post
Again, the 1000th time. You don't gain experience from aging alone. Theresa "survived"? This is the funniest thing i have ever heard. Like she survived as a problem child in the woods? You made my day! Like King Kong survived at Skull Island?
You don't need to repeat your position. I know what it is. I disagree.

You don't have to fight opponents of equal level to gain experience. You can still gain experience fighting small fries and you can gain them in training as well as self mastery. There are tons of top athletes that prove that point. If you ever read Andre Agassi's auto biography "Open", you will see he became a top player by merciless training his father imposed on him when he was young. If you follow Tiger Woods's growth to prominence in Golf, it's his 14 hours of practices every single day that made him such a dominating Golf player. His prodigy alone is not enough. He is so far above everyone else now that only Jack Nicklaus even come close to him in dominance in the sport and that's only because he held the most major titles due to being much older. Plenty of examples where you do not need to compete against equal adversaries to improve. The only benefit of fighting someone equal or better is improve faster.
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Old 2009-12-04, 14:51   Link #342
MisterJB
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Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post

1. Isley's bow and arrows arm attack FAILS to destroy the abyss feeders
2. Beth and Alicia are ~EQUAL in power
3. Alicia SUCCEEDS to destroy the abyss feeders
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. (#2 + #3) therefore: Beth would SUCEED to destroy the abyss feeders
5. (#1 + #4) therefore: Isley's bow and arrows arm attack will FAIL against Beth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
therefore 1: Isley < Abyss Feeders < (Beth=Alicia)
therefore 2: Isley < (Beth=Alicia)
therefore 3: Isley < Beth
Not this again. People should seriously stop judging Isley's strenght by his figth against the AFs.
But, lets analyze it again.

Isley was extremely wounded and tired.
He was attacked by groups of eleven
Isley had been figthing the Abyssal Feeders for more than a year, they learned how he fougth, adapted themselves and got stronger and faster because of it. But this advantage only works against Isley.
The Abyssal Feeders were programmed to scatter and flee on all directions if Isley killed more than half of them (6). Since they don't leak Yoki, it would be impossible for anyone alone to kill them all before they escaped.

Alicia was fresh, she migth not be at 100% because she was between Awakened and Claymore but she was not physically wounded.
The Abyssal Feeders had never hunted Alicia, they had no idea how she fougth and weren't prepared. Basically, they were noobs against Alicia but pros against Isley. Solely because of experience, not the strength of their opponent.
Alicia attacked them from behind and with the element of surprise. This is eas to her because her is body is very small while Isley was huge.
And, these Abyssal Feeders were not programmed to run away until Riful was dead.

Now, you migth think that I can't prove this. If so, please look at the followying pages.

Spoiler for manga pages:


In these, we see Riful killing six Abyssal Feeders while five remain alive. If this was against Isley, they would have run away already. Yet, they are still there.
However, this doesn't not serves as proof because there could have been moe than eleven AFs on the group that attacked the West.
Well, just take a look at these pages.

Spoiler for manga pages:


In these, Riful kills five of them and four are still left alive. These fou are soon killed Alicia.
Now, you said this:

Quote:
its well reasonable to assume Alicia DID INDEED wipe them all out, since Riful wouldn't be able to stand and comment about how stupid Alicia and Beth are for attacking Priscilla in chapter 98, if some of the AF were still alive)
So, unless you want to contradict yourself, you agree with me that those four were the last Abyssal Feeders. So, by the time that Alicia attacks them, 11 AFs are dead and only 4 are alive. They should have run a long time ago and yet, they were still there, ready to atatck Riful.
All of this should prove that these AFs were not programmed to run away. It's very logical since they had the support of the Dark Twins and Riful is the last lyving Abyssal. Why would the Org make them run away? They clearly expected Alicia to kill Riful, something that would have happened if it wasn't for Priscilla.

So, please explain to me how the amazing feat of Alicia killing 4 AFs from behind, who were not even programmed to escape and had no experience against her at all, proves that she is stronger or even compares to Isley being hunted by eleven experienced AFs who were programmed to run away if he got too close of whiping them out. And this during more than a year.

So, please stop comparing Isley's figth with the AFs to anyone else's figths. Because there is no comparision possible unless you find me someone who was hunted by them for a long period of time.

Because I can also do this. Ahem:

Isley chopped off the rigth arm of Priscilla in her Awakened form and completely destroyed her left one along with her left breast. He then stomped on her manye times and stabbed ran her through with his lance. She then had to release her limitless Yoki and use tentacles to destroy his rigth arm.

Alicia and Beth working as a team couldn't even force Priscilla to Awaken and she killed them with her bare hands.

OMG Isley > Alicia & Beth. It's totally proven now and anything said otherwise is just an unrational "argument".

Also. that arrows argument is really stupid. You do realize that the arrows pierced through all of the AFs and would have killed them all if it wasn't for their regenerative abilities.
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Old 2009-12-04, 16:28   Link #343
Shiek927
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Awww, I can't give you rep JB :/

But yes, you can't judge ANYONE's strength against the AE's because they'll win sooner or later, they are everyone's handicap, not just his.
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Old 2009-12-04, 16:35   Link #344
clarakiss~
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prissy was indeed in her arrogant and cocky personality when she fought rigardo and isley in her awakened form and not human form. once isley greatly damaged her, she regressed into her child-like state.

alicia and beth didn't accomplish this while prissy fought them in her human form and not her awakened form like isley did.
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Old 2009-12-04, 16:48   Link #345
Shiek927
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Originally Posted by clarakiss~ View Post
prissy was indeed in her arrogant and cocky personality when she fought rigardo and isley in her awakened form and not human form. once isley greatly damaged her, she regressed into her child-like state.

alicia and beth didn't accomplish this while prissy fought them in her human form and not her awakened form like isley did.
Yes; the transformation to her child-like state happened in the middle of the fight, like we saw.

Remember that you have to seperate the personalities/mental states from the transformations though Clarakiss; While Isley was fighting her, she was still in her Awakened form when she started talking about her family. They aren't connected like that.
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Old 2009-12-04, 16:53   Link #346
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I'd like to see a rematch between Teresa and Priscilla someday.
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Old 2009-12-04, 16:58   Link #347
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Originally Posted by Noe View Post
I'd like to see a rematch between Teresa and Priscilla someday.
Never gonna happen, she's dead
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Old 2009-12-04, 17:16   Link #348
clarakiss~
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Never gonna happen, she's dead
amen to that.

i wonder what priscilla is planning on doing now. will riful encounter her too? clare will surely head to priscilla to investigate that strange yoki she's feeling.
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Old 2009-12-04, 17:51   Link #349
HegemonKhan
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wow.... so many big posts.... way too much to respond too... so i'll just respond to misterjb since we are having a debate with each other:

since you've taken this debate into even more specific and nuanced arguments, then i'll have to go into specific detail as well, which was left out of my previous more generalized post.

misterjb,

1. true, Riful did kill a number of Abyss Feeders, so Alicia did kill less then the full 11.

2. however, if isley was more powerful then then alicia, then surely he would have killed all of them too within maybe 3 battles-encounters with them. so why wasn't he able to? alicia had no problem killing the 4 or so like you said. and if you claim isley is so much more powerful, why couldn't he wipe out all 11 with ease?

well because he couldn't. he was weaker then alicia. after like maybe 5 enoucnters-battles with the AF, it was now impossible, as they are too experienced now to be killed by him.

Alicia is pure offensive design. she's like one big or a bunch of CHAINSAWS. Riful was scared, she couldn't let Alicia hit her otherwise she's getting destroyed. like poor dauf, alicia buzz-sawed right through his fist and arm.

Isley, has great offensive ability, but not 100% like alicia's body-design does. heck, isley has a shield arm. isley has a bit of defensive ability as well. alicia's body is a chainsaw, pure carnage-damage-offense.

2. about priscilla vs isley vs alicia:

priscilla wasn't fighting isley, she jsut tried to dodge and back up, isley had a free shot to impale priscilla with his lance arm, destroying her breast and her wing and her side.

that's not a very good thing to point to misterjb.

as when priscilla realized she had to fight (while impaled onto isley's lance, lol), she instantly destroyed half of isley's body. if priscilla had been serious and actually fighting isley from the beginning, he would never had even time to think about how to hit her. he'd be dead instantly.

on the other hand, (though this IS UNFAIR as it is 2v1, whereas for isley it was 1v1), alicia+beth using teamwork were able to actually damage a "somewhat" serious priscilla. though, that "damage" just lisley's wasn't enough obviously.

lastly, about awakened form vs human form of AB/AO :

there's no difference in power, only abilities. as can be seen with all of the AO's (isley, riful, luciela, ~rosemary, and priscilla), their power is the same while in human form as when in their awakened form. the only difference is that their awakened form can do more stuff then they can in their human form. this more stuff does in a way give them more "power", but as for direct power level, there's no difference from human form and awakened form.

isley or priscilla is just as powerful in their human forms as when they are in their centaur and one-horned winged awakened forms respectively.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P.S.

i'm just arguing for alicia. I'm not saying she is actually more powerful then isley, only that she could be.

you make-made good counter points showing isley's "prowess" which i fully agree with.

personally....

i don't really care too much about isley and alicia, or any of the AO's. they are all ~EQUAL to me

and i certainly don't prefer alicia over isley or isley over alicia. both are powerful. and i'll argue for both of them being very powerful.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P. S. S.

*i know my previous posts came across like i was arguing for alicia over isley, but that's more just from my un-organized posts, though truth be told, with all that is being said and talked about right now, it is kinda hard to organize and adress the flood of comments and information going on right now into a post... or i just suck at it and no one else is having trouble or others aren't for some reason being criticized for their just as un-organized or lacking address of some stuff in their posts.... *
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

P. S. S. S.

here's my actual views on the power levels of (some of) the most powerful characters:

Teresa > Priscilla > Destroyer > Isley=Riful=Rosemary=Luciela=Rafaela=Alicia=Beth > Dauf > Clare > Miria > AF's="hellcats" > Deneve > Helen > Agatha > Miata > Galatea > Cynthia=Yuma=Tabatha

Last edited by HegemonKhan; 2009-12-04 at 18:42.
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Old 2009-12-04, 18:46   Link #350
irvinethearcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
You don't need to repeat your position. I know what it is. I disagree.

You don't have to fight opponents of equal level to gain experience. You can still gain experience fighting small fries and you can gain them in training as well as self mastery. There are tons of top athletes that prove that point. If you ever read Andre Agassi's auto biography "Open", you will see he became a top player by merciless training his father imposed on him when he was young. If you follow Tiger Woods's growth to prominence in Golf, it's his 14 hours of practices every single day that made him such a dominating Golf player. His prodigy alone is not enough. He is so far above everyone else now that only Jack Nicklaus even come close to him in dominance in the sport and that's only because he held the most major titles due to being much older. Plenty of examples where you do not need to compete against equal adversaries to improve. The only benefit of fighting someone equal or better is improve faster.
Why do you always bring such useless examples. We KNOW already from yuma what the ghost's achieved with training. The question here is did theresa train and if so for what reason?
If she did not train(more than priscilla at her academy time) it is quite clear that she wasn't more experienced than priscilla because of those weak adversaries she had she could achieve improvement ONLY with training.
Everything we know about her contradicts that she trained even in any way alone.
She had absolutely no motif for that and was absolutely not that kind of type.
About the opponents level:
Let's say he still has to be an opponent and not a victim. Or do you think that you become stronger from squashing ants with your feet?

You have your opinion okay, but please try at least to bring arguments which are plausible and support your opinion.
I find it quite bold and perhaps even cocky to write something like this
Quote:
Teresa prob came close to realizing her potential
without some solid arguments to back it up.
IMO theresa did not even scratch at her real potential. If yuma could become as strong or stronger than a number 14 with hard training.
Even theresa's special technique seems inborn and not achieved due hard efforts if she could detect rafaella as a child. See, i say something and then i write something to back it up.
So again why do you think what you wrote above? Why do you think that theresa was one of the oldest claymores. this is pure speculation, we don't know how much time went bye between her fight with rosemary and her meeting clare.
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Old 2009-12-04, 19:03   Link #351
MisterJB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
2. however, if isley was more powerful then then alicia, then surely he would have killed all of them too within maybe 3 battles-encounters with them. so why wasn't he able to? alicia had no problem killing the 4 or so like you said. and if you claim isley is so much more powerful, why couldn't he wipe out all 11 with ease?

well because he couldn't. he was weaker then alicia. after like maybe 5 enoucnters-battles with the AF, it was now impossible, as they are too experienced now to be killed by him.
Hedge, why do you make me repeat myself? Did you not read my post with full attention? Do you not read the manga with full attention?
Look at here.




The Abyssal Feeders attack. Isley kills six of them. They all scatter on separate directions at the same time. Isley pursues one, kill it but the others are long gone.
And this for over a year.

Isley did not kill 11 of them at the first time because they don't emit Yoki, so, it's nigh impossible for him to chase them when they start to run away and this is a guy that can shot projectiles made of his one flesh. Alicia would have the same problem. Heck, even Priscilla would have the same problem.

Just try to catch 5 very small, very fast dogs that are running all at once and to diferent directions. It's hard.


Quote:
Alicia is pure offensive design. she's like one big or a bunch of CHAINSAWS. Riful was scared, she couldn't let Alicia hit her otherwise she's getting destroyed. like poor dauf, alicia buzz-sawed right through his fist and arm.
Yes, but Riful attack with thin tentacles. Alicia was especially designed to cut those tentacles that compose her body.
She would have a harder time cutting through solid shields, axes, claws, swords, lances, etc.


Quote:
that's not a very good thing to point to misterjb.
I was not saying it was a valid point. I was merely imitating the way you were presenting arguments. Did you not understand my sarcasm?



Quote:
there's no difference in power, only abilities. but as for direct power level, there's no difference from human form and awakened form.

isley or priscilla is just as powerful in their human forms as when they are in their centaur and one-horned winged awakened forms respectively.
Luciela disagrees.




Quote:
I'm not saying she is actually more powerful then isley, only that she could be.
It's possible, of course. But you can't reach that conclusion through her assault on the AFs.

Quote:
you make-made good counter points showing isley's "prowess" which i fully agree with.
Thanks
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Old 2009-12-04, 19:27   Link #352
HegemonKhan
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i fully agree with the stuff about the AF's, as i said somewhere else...

in a way the AF's are better then Alicia+Beth (and the AF's ARE mass produce'able). Yes, Alicia+Beth are more powerful then the AF's, but due to the tactics of the AF's, it's almost impossible for them to be destroyed or to fail. They WILL kill anything, given enough time, and if they aren't immediately completely destroyed, something which is neigh impossible to do as they run back to the Org's HQ when more then 5 of them are killed and emit no yoki.

the only ways to defeat the AF's as i can see:

1. wait for them at the Org's HQ, lol. and kill all of them then as they return-show up.

2. having an attack that can hit multiple targets and have all of them in sight, on the first or first few encounters, as after that, the window to killing them is GONE, as they get "combat smarter".
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

personally I like to match up the "hellcats" vs the AF's

the AF's are nearly completely superior (hellcats don't regenerate and will even die on their own after a half day and they don't get smarter), except that when you damage the "hellcats" they shoot out the smaller projectiles, which can turn struck beings into more "hellcats" or maybe "mini-hellcats".

frankly, i would really have liked to seen the battle between Clare, deneve, helen vs the hellcats.

my questions:

1. did clare do all of the work?

2. deneve and helen were dominated by the AF's, so does that mean that the "hellcats" are inferior-weaker then the AF's?

3. how does clare figure that her quick sword would be a good idea... making them into too small pieces... because every time they get damaged they shoot out the small rods... that'd be a BEEPload of small rods when clare uses her quick sword, or helen her drill sword.... doesn't make sense how they won.... against the hellcats...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

the Af's and priscilla are definately not viable options to use to compare isley vs alicia....

HOWEVER, this IS all we got to use from the manga, lol. ain't my fault!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

your picture and dialogue about luciela talking about human vs awakened form.....

is merely saying that isley has extra ability with his arrows while in his awakened form.

this is exactly what i said as well.

however, extra ability (like being able to control his arrows in the air), has nothing to do with the power level of him in his awakened form vs in his human form


the more yoki or yoma power used up, makes them weaker.

but as of yet, i don't see any difference in their power level between human and awakened form.

priscilla in human form and in awakened form, seem to both be the same equally massively powerful.

same with isley or riful or luciela (at the start of the battle they were both in their human forms and incredibly powerful, destroying the ground around them. don't use luciela after she ran away. she was weak because she used up her yoki or yoma power, not because she was in human form. the beginning of their battle shows that human form luciela or isley has the same power level as her or his awakened form).

of course priscilla, isley, riful, luciela, rosemary, alicia, beth, have more abilities in their awakened forms making them more "powerful" due to that, but as for their actual power level, as of yet to me, there isn't a difference.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

riful's tentacles might be "thin" but they are still extra hard.

(steel cables are "thin" too yet incredible strong-hard. the strongest "stretchy" material on earth is a spider's web threads-"silk". recently we made an artifical synthetic spider's silk, spyndek or something like this, which is just as strong or just slightly stronger, but it can't stretch. if you want an idea of jsut how strong a spider's silk is: if you made its web bigger and made its thread like just a cm in diameter, it could stop, or catch lol, a commercial jet in the air)

i'm actually really curious as to who actually has the harder skin-body, Riful or Dauf?

unfortunately, the manga never addresses-shows-tells if or how hard isley's skin is.

Last edited by HegemonKhan; 2009-12-04 at 19:51.
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Old 2009-12-04, 19:53   Link #353
MisterJB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post

is merely saying that isley has extra ability with his arrows while in his awakened form.

but as of yet, i don't see any difference in their power level between human and awakened form.
No, no. Luciela clearly stated that Isley's arrows were stronger and faster on his Awakened form. It has nothing to do with abilities. It's raw power, physical strength and prowess.

If you want more examples, then look at this.

Spoiler for manga pages:


While they were both human, Luciela easily deflected Isley's arrows. However, when Isley Awakened, the arrows speared rigth through her, even destroying the mouths on her tails. She even stated that the arrows had gotten stronger and faster. Therefore, Isley is faster and stronger on his Awakened form.

And when Luciela also Awakens, she is once again able to stop his arrows and even eat them. She has also gotten much stronger.

Spoiler for manga:


Quote:
Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post

riful's tentacles might be "thin" but they are still extra hard.
No arguing there.

Quote:
i'm actually really curious as to who actually has the harder skin-body, Riful or Dauf?
Obviously Riful. She is an Abyssal One.

Quote:
unfortunately, the manga never addresses-shows-tells if or how hard isley's skin is.
He is also an Abyssal One. His skin should be as hard as Riful -have you noticed his body? It's completely armored- and he has the advantage that all of his weapons are very bulky. That makes them harder to cut.
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Old 2009-12-04, 20:13   Link #354
HegemonKhan
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i do agree, that the awakened form IS more powerful. but, not by "that much" in relation to how high a power level they are at.

sorry for not going into such detail about my understanding.

we actually agree. i just wanted to keep my post simplier and merely say that their human form is "mostly" at the same power level as their awakened form. or rather, their human form's power level is still at their Abyssal level of power, though their awakened form definately has a higher power level

hopefully, this isn't too badly worded...


we fully agree, i was just being more general in my post and you were more specific in yours.

at the specific level, we are in complete agreement. the awakened form is more powerful.

my general point though, was that their human form is STILL VERY VERY POWERFUL OR IS STILL AT THEIR ABYSSAL LEVEL OF POWER.

Also, AB and AO can use parts of their body or awakened form abilities.

for examples:

Riful uses her tentacles, even though she's in her human form.

Isley uses his bow and arrow arm, even though he is in his human form.

Dauf can produce a rod and pull it out of his body, despite being in his human form.

Luciela can use her tails, despite being in human form.

etc...

also their power in human form is still massive:

for examples..

1. as can be seen in the isley vs luciela scene you have been using

2. midget human priscilla nearly crushes Renee's arm

3. human form priscilla (back into her awakened personality of coldness-wickedness-cocky-arrogant-ness), kills beth (not fully certain if she's dead...yet) and alicia with ease.

4. etc...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

meh.... i don't know about Dauf.... probably Riful is a tiny bit harder-skinned then him....but "man", he sure has hard skin. He seems to have as hard skin as Riful, though Alicia buzz-sawed right through him. I think Alicia did hit Riful too and buzz saw-ed right through her too, but i'm not sure. i'd have to go back and look if riful ever messed up and got sliced up by alicia or not, but i'm too lazy to do so as of now.

i won't say though that all AO's have hard skin, because the manga doesn't "say" (show-display-tell) so.

you can speculate that all AO's have hard skin.

i'm not going to. the only ones who have hard skin are the ones that the manga has shown or said to have hard skin:

Riful and Dauf

(i think this is it, but maybe there's more actually mentioned by the manga. NO speculation allowed though)

Last edited by HegemonKhan; 2009-12-04 at 20:24.
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Old 2009-12-04, 20:41   Link #355
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I think Isley would have been more effective against Alicia and Beth than Riful, and Riful more effective against the AF than Isley.

Although there's no concrete proof for this theory, just by looking at their bodies and their weapons, it looks like Isley is more suited to taking out a single very powerfull opponent, while Riful seems more capable at taking out multiple smaller opponents. The obvious clues are Isley's use of the lance, sword and bow (weapons that do alot of damage to a single target), compared to Riful's strips that she can use with accuracy to take out multiple opponents but don't seem like they would be very effective against a tougher body.

Also, Riful seems to have a more resilient body, seeing how the abyss feeders weren't able to do as much damage to her as they did to Isley, they were hardly any threat at all to Riful. On the other hand Isley seemed to have much greater speed, going by Rigaldo's statement. Also, Alicia's blades easily cut through Riful's strips but Isley might have had a better chance fending her off with his sword or lance.
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Old 2009-12-04, 21:19   Link #356
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just to add or state something you said in a different or more detailed way:

Riful's awakened body is more "fluid or like water or a giant hairball" due to being made up of thin strips. Riful is like a "giant hairball". It is very hard to hit or damage a "hairball". Cutting off some of Riful's strips are harmless to her.

The only way to actually target Riful to actually damage her:

1. to be able to actually feel-locate her REAL-TRUE human body hidden inside of one of her strips. like tabatha did for the ghosts against agatha.

2. or that she uses up so much yoki or yoma power, that she can no longer hold her awakened form and is stuck exposed in her REAL-BODY human body for everyone to see and target. like the current condition she is in right now (chapter ~97-98).


whereas, isley has a solid normal awakened body. he's much easier to target and to damage him. he's also not (because he can't) moving his REAL-TRUE human body around inside of his awakened body, like riful can and does.
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Old 2009-12-05, 01:08   Link #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
just to add or state something you said in a different or more detailed way:

Riful's awakened body is more "fluid or like water or a giant hairball" due to being made up of thin strips. Riful is like a "giant hairball". It is very hard to hit or damage a "hairball". Cutting off some of Riful's strips are harmless to her.

The only way to actually target Riful to actually damage her:

1. to be able to actually feel-locate her REAL-TRUE human body hidden inside of one of her strips. like tabatha did for the ghosts against agatha.

2. or that she uses up so much yoki or yoma power, that she can no longer hold her awakened form and is stuck exposed in her REAL-BODY human body for everyone to see and target. like the current condition she is in right now (chapter ~97-98).


whereas, isley has a solid normal awakened body. he's much easier to target and to damage him. he's also not (because he can't) moving his REAL-TRUE human body around inside of his awakened body, like riful can and does.
That's true. In her awaekned from Riful can avoid most atacks like she did against the new Claymores that atacked her. Isley on the other hand acan't do this and takes atacks head on. This of course has it's advanatages in some cases since his skin is harder thus making it harder to cut him. But with enough power harder skin means nothing.

And I believe AOs and ABs in their awakened form are much stronger than in their normal form. The Luciela vs Isley example was good but there a lot more of them. You could say that in their human body the can use something like 70% of their yoki and in their awakened form they use 100%. And as I believe we all noticed by now 30% between (0;30) and 30% between (70;100) are completely different (or so it seems especially considering Prissy vs Teresa fight and the events that took place after)

An awaekned body boost everything plus it hides their real bodies in some cases. I don't see a problem with Prissy taking on Alicia and Beth in her human form and killing them in 5 seconds - after all Teresa killed an AO with 10% of her power so it's only natural.

I don't believe Isley was stornger than Alicia or Beth. In fact there's no way to know for sure since Alicia and Beth only fought weaker oponents or much stronger (guess who ) and Rifu but she was already weakened so that can't really serve as an example. Isley should have been the most powerful AO if all the female claymores have the same yoki limit. We know that male claymores are more powerful than female ones in general but that doesn't mean this is the case with everyone since clearly both Teresa and Priscilla were way way stronger.
So I really don't think anyone from the big 3 is stronger than the rest and that includes Alicia and Beth.
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Old 2009-12-05, 01:58   Link #358
Gattberserk
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Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
i do agree, that the awakened form IS more powerful. but, not by "that much" in relation to how high a power level they are at.

IT IS more powerful... Luciela went off because she loses her fight with Easley and her power aka youki was leaking... Once it leaked completely she regresses to her human form... which was what happen when she encountered Rafaela at the water stream there... This lead me to believe that once you transform your Youki increased as well (Rmb the battle at the North? No one noticed Rigardo in his human form until he transformed, this is likley due to the surge in youki which caught their attention)


Luciela vs Easley battle was the best proof that changing to a awakened form is more stronger also...


I got to admit that Priscilla has definitely had gotten more "matured" over these years... In the past we see her crying for food and family, wanting to fill her tummy... Now she start to analyse both Alicia/Beth and comment that the organisation plan is a big failure...


These are words that I thought scheming ppl like Easley would say... Not from Priscilla...



Also another point to note, Easley kinda underestimate her as well, cos if he knew Pris is these strong, there is no need to challenge Luciela beforehand because both Riful and Luciela stand no chance against Priscilla even if they both team up...


Anyway I kinda laugh at Riful comment about having such things to exist in this world, she definitely haven seen Theresia... Cos Theresia have easily achieved the same feat as what Priscilla had (She dispatches Rosemary just as fast with only 30% of her youki power released)

Last edited by Gattberserk; 2009-12-05 at 02:42.
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Old 2009-12-05, 02:08   Link #359
clarakiss~
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Originally Posted by Joe_fh View Post
I don't believe Isley was stornger than Alicia or Beth.
perhaps alicia and isley are dead even in power, however i believe isley is stronger than beth.
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Old 2009-12-05, 02:09   Link #360
HegemonKhan
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Isley, Riful, and Luciela have been around a long time. if they could increase their power further.... they'd be more powerful then even priscilla.

it is my understanding, or belief-opinion if you want, that:

once awakening occurs (permanent loss of their human mind over to their yoma mind), that being can NEVER improve or get more powerful. they are stuck at that power level forever.

ONLY claymores or Half awakens still have a human mind, letting them continue to get stronger.

I mean look how strong the Ghosts got!

rank 40 yuma defeats a rank 14 claymore with such ease that "her sword seemed to be standing still"

or

take miria, she was like a rank ~17 to begin with, yet she got stronger and become a rank 8. then with her killing of awakened hilda, she took hilda's rank of 6. (then as a Ghost, she is more powerful than rank 2 Awakened Being Agatha or rank 3 Claymore Audrey)

this is my explanation for this idea i have:

the human mind is limitless
but, the human body is limited (duh)

the yoma body is limitless (as can be seen)

but, the yoma mind is limited
^
V
(this is why i feel is the reason that awakened can't improve-get stronger, whereas the claymores or half awakens can since they still have their human minds)
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