2010-05-17, 16:15 | Link #10061 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
Nope all she said was that Battler said it when he left. She never mentioned who it was addressed to. She also said that a lot of other things happened back then, but that he didn't want to remember.
__________________
|
2010-05-17, 16:18 | Link #10062 |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
|
More emo Shannon thoughts.
In ep6 were shown a scene where Battler is asked what kind of girl he likes. He says blonde and busty, or maybe like Jessica. Or something like that. He is saying this to Shannon, because he is too nervous to confess his love for her right there. Shannon being emotionally fragile thinks that her hopes of Battler liking her are destroyed. But her hopes are restored later that day when he makes that promise to her. So she is even more crushed when he doesn't come back and really does think he didn't care about her, and thinks what he said to her was true. |
2010-05-17, 16:24 | Link #10063 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
|
Quote:
This can also support BattlerxJessica, but I haven't read Ep.6 yet so I dunno |
|
2010-05-17, 16:29 | Link #10064 |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
|
Is there ever a point where Shannon forgets something that she was told? In ep3 the cousins claim Shannon has such a good memory, but the only thing she ever brings up is stuff of Battler. If I could find a spot which implies she forgot something, it could be pointed as a huge hint that she remembers so much about 1 person she hasn't seen, nor heard about in 6 years.
|
2010-05-17, 16:32 | Link #10065 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
Quote:
That's the only thing I'm aware of, but I think it's more of a habit than not remembering.
__________________
|
|
2010-05-17, 16:34 | Link #10066 | |||
Maelstorm-Fenrir
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2010-05-17, 16:46 | Link #10067 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
|
Quote:
...As well as Episode 1, because of Ryukishi's hint. |
|
2010-05-17, 17:14 | Link #10069 |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
|
Now that we're on the topic of love, don't forget this:
"Without love, the truth cannot be seen." This is mentioned multiple times, and I've always thought that it was a loaded statement (it had hidden meanings). Depends on the translation, I guess. Could this possibly hint at a motive...? If so, then this ShannonxBattler thing could be our answer, or at least could lead us towards our answer. |
2010-05-17, 17:18 | Link #10070 | |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
|
Quote:
One way to look at this is with this example. If we look at what Beato says from without love, that she is a cruel witch who is just trying to get Battler to submit. Scenes and statments she saids we make us think that, even if what she is really meaning is far from that. But if we look at what Beato says with love for her, we see that she is trying to show Battler the truth, and that she isn't a cruel witch, but actually a tragic person trying to help Battler and the Ushiromiya family. |
|
2010-05-17, 17:34 | Link #10071 | ||||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
Well since we're on quotes here are some I found interesting. George and Shannon seem to be the people who talk about love the most. They actually use a lot of cheesy lines that I didn't notice until I reread them.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
A lot of these lovey dovey lines are really emberrassing, which I guess is why Erika doesn't like all the lovey dovey stuff. There is also this quote from episode 3 that might be relevant to 6. Quote:
__________________
|
||||
2010-05-17, 17:41 | Link #10072 |
Maelstorm-Fenrir
|
This is something I didn't notice before that scene with the cousins talking at the beach doesn't happen in ep4. But Battler does say if he got some share of the gold he would give some to Shannon.
A little off topic from the love talk, but Rosa gets really mad when Kyrie suggests that Maria might be lying in ep4. |
2010-05-17, 18:03 | Link #10073 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2010-05-17, 19:18 | Link #10074 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
|
Quote:
Oh wait, is it synonymous to utter crap? Then it must be none other than Twilight! Well, Shannon does wish to be human. This is mentioned many times; Kanon and Shannon do not want to be furniture, but rather human beings. The Bible metaphor actually fits if you think about it; after Eve takes a bite from the Forbidden Fruit, she becomes corrupted and at point she truly becomes human. From knowledge comes self-awareness, and from self-awareness comes independent decision-making. By acknowledging that she WANTS something, she takes the vow to actually become a human being by making her own choices. This makes her all the more suspicious as the main culprit. It's ironic, but in essence Shannon has to sacrifice her humanity to become human. |
|
2010-05-17, 19:37 | Link #10075 | ||
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
Quote:
Quote:
Well in twilight's case it's more ridiculous because the forbidden fruit is a glampire... That's one way to look at it.
__________________
|
||
2010-05-17, 19:57 | Link #10076 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
|
Quote:
What connects her to Eve, though, is that she WANTS the knowledge. It's not necessarily a rational choice, since she ruins so much with her want of knowledge. While I don't condone murder (or Eve's actions) I can understand why they did what they did. It is what it is. If anything about the Bible is to believed (I won't go there) then humans are flawed. Shannon likewise makes the move from "the easy, guided, non-decision making" life, to the life where she could deviate from what was "right". This parallels Eve's decision to be a flawed human, rather than a perfect being. In essence, the sold their souls to the Devil. In the Bible, it's more literal--- didn't the Serpent convince Eve to take the fruit? Although I will concede that perhaps it's not the best metaphor for the situation, there is a bit of merit behind it. |
|
2010-05-17, 20:01 | Link #10077 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
|
Eh... my problem with it is that that way of looking at it, it's on shaky ground. At least it's not focused on throughout the entire story like Twilight is (at least I hope it's not). That's one of the main "religious" critiques of the twilight series. That they focus so much on eating the forbidden fruit as a positive thing throughout the books when it's not supposed to be.
Gegh...I think we should just drop it this is getting too embarrassing to talk about .
__________________
|
2010-05-17, 20:02 | Link #10078 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
"Without love, it can't be seen" is something of a trap. If anything, Battler suffers from an excess of love (to the point of actually being called out on it in ep5 and 6 for his unwillingness to expose the culprit).
Love is the tool by which we are made to doubt the guilt of characters. After all, if we just guessed 18 times, surely we'd be "right" at least one of them! Of course, without care for what we're doing, or any interest in understanding the root causes, we're just callously tearing a book apart page by page until we find the one we're looking for... but we might still find it. Making us care about the characters places us in the same dilemma Battler faces: At least one of these people is a murderer. Even if every killer but one is doing so out of self-defense or misguided but noble reasons, there would appear to be at least one who has premeditated not only murder, but likely mass murder. Granted, it's possible it's all a coincidence piled on coincidence, but I don't think that would satisfy many. So we must accept that a culprit exists. If that is so, who may we suspect? Aren't we going to feel terrible about it no matter who we decide to finger? Each time a culprit is settled upon, it seems like ryukishi takes steps to rehabilitate them in our eyes. Look at how Natsuhi went from highly suspect in some episodes to completely beyond reproach in any episodes, just because of ep5. How do we reconcile an excess of love blinding us to seeking truth with the assertion - repeated over and over in the story - that we cannot find the truth without the very thing preventing us from clearly considering suspects? Quote:
So we can't look at Shannon too harshly as an Eve figure. She is willing to trade an inferior paradise (living comfortably as a servant) for a superior one (living for love as a fully developed human being), aware of the suffering it may cause her and others. Kanon could be thought of as the innocent Adam convinced to eat of the fruit as well; he doesn't understand Shannon's perspective until he experiences the "sins" of love himself, whereupon he begins to awaken to a greater humanity. Whether this is a good thing is obviously still in question, depending on how you suspect Shannon and Kanon. The mind is its own place, and in itself / Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven. EDIT: Note that in ep6, it is stated that if Shannon or Kanon finds love, neither can remain on the island. Adam sins in Paradise Lost in part because he cannot accept living without Eve and is willing to be punished with her if it means not losing her. Last edited by Renall; 2010-05-17 at 20:15. |
|
2010-05-17, 20:50 | Link #10079 |
Endless Witch-Doctor
Join Date: Mar 2010
|
"Without love, the truth cannot be seen."
As long as we're still talking about it, I might as well post my interpretation of that line. I think it's like Battler said at the beginning of EP5. When Natsuhi has a tea party with Beatrice, and Bern destroys the illusion. Because Bern had no love for Natsuhi, the illusion couldn't be seen. I'll use EP2 as an example. If you ignore the fantasy scenes, you'll notice that Maria and Rosa don't get along at all. Also, Jessica and Kanon and George and Shannon don't interact much either. But if you pay attention to the fantasy scenes, you'll notice that they all loved each other very much. The noble actions of Rosa vs. Goats at the end are a huge contrast with her actions at the beginning of the Episode. If you flat out ignore the fantasy scenes, you would never know that Rosa loved Maria as much as she is shown to love her at the end. Basically, if you ignore the fantasy scenes (meaning that you have no love), the truth can't be seen. You can't see what the characters think or feel about their loved ones. Just imagine every Episode without fantasy scenes and you'll get almost nothing to work with. But if you take the magical scenes into consideration, you can truly understand each character. That's why I was so determined in deciphering the fantasy scenes (Ronove = Genji, stakes = adults, etc) so that the truth might be hidden in there. Maybe they aren't literal representations, but they might be "character development" for their human counterpart. At the very least, you can see how characters react in different situations, which is very important to figuring out the "whydunnit" of the mystery. |
2010-05-17, 21:00 | Link #10080 | |
Blick Winkel
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Gobbled up by Promathia
|
Quote:
By "love" I always imagined it as compassion. By having compassion for the opponent's claims, you hear another perspective of the story. As stated in Episode 5, multiple truths can exist at the same time as long as they don't interfere with each other. In the Grand Court, these truths combine and form one final truth. The actual occurences from the "non-fantasy" side could possibly match up with the "fantasy" side's emotion. I like this idea a lot though. |
|
|
|