2010-05-30, 04:04 | Link #2041 | |
Minmay Guard
Join Date: May 2009
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I always got the feeling that Eva was a story Anno NEEDED to tell, to try to exorcise those demons...the fact that it came out as well as it did is testament to his storytelling abilities and to the rest of the Gainax staff in helping to shape the series. I'd also hope that Rebuild is likewise a story Anno needs to tell...and his focus has quite obviously changed. Which I think is kind of cool, and I'm looking forward to seeing what he NOW thinks is an appropriate finale for this world. |
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2010-05-30, 04:37 | Link #2042 | |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Around
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Shinji is, luckily, still as messed up as ever. There are only more explosions and a bigger budget to show that. |
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2010-05-30, 04:55 | Link #2043 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
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2010-05-30, 05:33 | Link #2044 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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It's hard to say, we're bordering on fighting about whose opinion is right if we continue. Consider Final Fantasy X, which was a love story but also a father-son one, especially when you consider the final scene that Tidus experiences before dissolving into a dream. One thing to note is that Rei wasn't the backup for emotional neediness; throughout the entire movie we see their relationship building and if you watched the original series you know their connection is more than just physical -- the strands of natural synchronization between the two stems from the traces of a family bond. Shinji is very much connected to Rei regardless of what Gendou did. If you watch the elevator scene, she says she feels paka-paka when together with Shinji, and that she wants Shinji to feel paka-paka when together with her as well, and for Shinji/Gendou to feel paka-paka when they are together. It isn't exactly clear that her primary motive is to get the two together, although it's definitely an intention. Also the entire paka-paka thing again threads the line between romantic (wanting happiness for your other) and motherly (wanting your son and husband to be happy together). So perverted when you think about it Finally, Shinji is in a much better state in Rebuild than ever in Eva. While he still has psychological problems in this one, he exerts his will in such a powerful, dramatic and glorious fashion at the climax in a way that draws admiration never before done in the Eva TV series + two movies. In the original, if he moved forward, they were but a little bit. In Rebuild, he really pushed it and gave it his all, initiating the third impact to save Rei because this Rei is THE Rei he wants to save. He also enjoys a moment of deep comfort with her that you almost NEVER EVER felt in the original series... Honestly it's a much happier and positive Evangelion. In the original it almost felt like NONE of the characters could catch a break, and there was no redemption, up until the final rolling credits of End of Evangelion... "Kimochi warui." |
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2010-05-30, 06:35 | Link #2045 | |
Waiting for more taiyuki!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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After getting a full view and a bit more of nude Rei, no way he's going to grope Asuka. So do think that Asuka got cloned for the next movie? When Rei was bandaged like that in the TV series, it was really a clone IIRC.
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2010-05-30, 06:43 | Link #2046 | |
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Join Date: May 2004
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2010-05-30, 07:22 | Link #2047 | ||||||
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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In fact, from this perspective, downplaying the Shinji/Asuka dynamic was a great idea, now that i think about it: it shows that the real reason why Shinji displayed such an extreme reaction after the Unit-03 thing is not that he was nearly forced to hurt someone he knew (certainly not an upper on it's own, granted), but that it was his father that nearly made him do it.. and then did it without him anyway. He both betrayed and threw him away, in Shinji's mind (this is something that is clearly stated by Shinji himself in the following train-sequence). Quote:
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2010-05-30, 07:32 | Link #2048 | |
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Join Date: May 2004
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My focus is on the second half of "... But for Rei, at least for Rei, I must save her!" I don't think any of the main characters in Evangelion have "solid, internal center[s]", and Shinji is another fragment of Anno's psychic shards. Even Misato notes that the only time she could feel free from the world was with Kaji... and when you think of Asuka, Rei, Gendou and everyone else, none of them are particularly well-adjusted people : ) To me what was moving was the will exerted by Shinji to save Rei. You may view that sort of emotion a weakness -- when you really put someone else before yourself (shown metaphorically by the pain that Shinji endures in the blue world including the bursting of his skin to retrieve Rei) and the world (shown by the initiation of 3rd impact) -- on my end I view it as a romantic and heroic. |
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2010-05-30, 07:52 | Link #2049 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Around
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2010-05-30, 10:53 | Link #2050 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
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To me, he saves her because HE HAS FEELINGS FOR HER. He wants to protect her. I don't mean that you're incorrect in saying that saving her gives him a reason to be -- that's true for all actions in this mortal world. However, his act of wanting to save her is simply that urgent quickening you feel in your heart when someone close to you is being threatened. |
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2010-05-30, 13:23 | Link #2051 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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It's funny how certain fans seem like Shinji and Rei's scene at the very end of Rebuild, when others completely despise it. I can definitely see that people hate the movie for the same things that people love it. I suppose it's because of this that the fans can't find any common ground.
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We can talk about how Evangelion is an expression of Hideaki Anno's mindset at the time, and how this is just a different expression... But why does that matter? In the end, it's the product that has to deliver. This is something that often happens with music. Sometimes I like an artist when he was going through depression, then he becomes happier, but his music just isn't as good. Do I find fault with the artist's mind set? No. But the music just isn't as good anymore. It doesn't speak to me, the emotion, just doesn't reach me. I feel very much the same way about Rebuild 2.0. Now it seems that many here are able to feel connected to this new mind set and what he's trying to get at... But I just don't. A major reason for this is that Evangelion represents a certain mindset for me that I can feel connected to, but Rebuild is trying to go in a different direction that really in the end just leaves me disconnected. Again, maybe you like this, but I don't. If Anno took his work to a completely different anime, perhaps I would have been able to like it much more.
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2010-05-30, 14:21 | Link #2052 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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P.S. The problem with your sig is that everyone thats a fan of Rebuild is by necessity a fan of the original NGE. A hugh part of 2.0 is the contrast between how the pilots act in the original NGE vs the movie. So the original NGE has no shortage of fans. |
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2010-05-30, 14:49 | Link #2053 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
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I'm a veteran of the original series and an avid hater of remakes, however these ones are an exception to me.
I think they've done a great job of retelling the old story so it feels fresh. Yeah, I knew how everything was going to go in this, yet I was still at the edge of my seat the entire time as I didn't know how they were going to get there this time. Shinji is still lost, confused and torn but I don't feel his desire to save Rei is entirely new here. Even in the original geofront battle he was still frantic over what was happening to her. However, yeah, he has grown some balls this time around and given this is a retelling of the original, I would have spit fireballs if they'd made him even weaker and whinier! What I'm not happy with is now Asuka's role seems to be greatly diminished, especially as she seems to be timesharing with Mari now, I didn't feel the connection to her that I felt before, she didn't get enough screentime to develop before they smashed her down. I thought that was an important missing piece of her character. Her huge ego, inflated after every battle and her sense of invincibility growing up like a huge balloon, before the angel popped it with a pin and she was brutally taken apart. It just wasn't there this time. Apologies if someone has already explained this elsewhere, but why the name change from Soryu? Last edited by airstorm; 2010-05-30 at 14:50. Reason: clarification |
2010-05-30, 15:08 | Link #2054 | |
Minmay Guard
Join Date: May 2009
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As far as the name change...I dunno. But now we've got ayaNAMI, shikiNAMI, and makiNAMI, all using the same kanji at the end (meaning "waves"). Clearly, that was a conscious choice on the creators' part, but if it has any real meaning or is just them being cute remains to be seen... |
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2010-05-30, 15:10 | Link #2055 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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What he was saying was that through time, age, and growth, with a different view in life then I would be better able to appreciate what's been done to the characters, Anno's mindset now as a 50 year old instead of a 35 year old. But it's not the mindset that gets me exactly. I have no problem with trying to explore a bit of a more positive mindset and perhaps conclusion to Evangelion... However, in doing so, I would still like the characters kept in tact, and I want to see how these characters reach that point without actually having been changed. That's why it disappoints me to see Shinji act the way he did in the end of 2.0 because this is not the same character who managed to reach that conclusion. He seems like a different character, and hence, a character I cannot connect well with at that point. P.S. About my sig... Those who are willing to like Rebuild have casted off your faith in the original. You have let our sanctuary be defiled! You are all heathens! I might change my sig once I calm down from my nerd-raging. It just goes to show you that all that's been on my mind this past month has been Evangelion... Rewatched the series all over again (Even episodes 25&26!), then saw 1.0, and then this movie. Its almost as if I am living vicariously through this series . But really, as my favorite show ever, with nothing that even comes close to this... I have good reason to care so much about this series.
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2010-05-30, 15:34 | Link #2056 | |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
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Reckoner, you're a braver soul than me to watch 25+26 more than once. When I introduce people to Eva I put them straight to EoE after ep 24. I don't think the characters have been changed very drastically, they are the same ones, but the stimulus provided to them has now been altered, so their reactions and perceptions have changed. Not to try digging too deep here (though, thats a lost cause as its Evangelion), but Shinji didn't have as much time in the movies to bond (positively) with Asuka as he did with Rei, who also had the opportunity to express some emotions back to him too (remember he never found out Asuka was trying to cook for him but he had read Rei's invitation). That he therefore felt far closer to her and fought harder to save her is hardly a surprise. Also, as the movies seem to be stringing events over a shorter period of time, they don't get as much of the war weariness of the series. They get to maintain some of their confidence, hope and optimism and that is showing. |
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movie, remake |
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