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Old 2010-06-06, 18:05   Link #2521
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notebook Darling View Post
I don't really want to get involved in a huge debat-ish thing, but aren't you supposed to be thankful for all that God has done. So you live by His rules, pray to Him and believe in Him -> worship God ?
You could say that.
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Old 2010-06-07, 07:49   Link #2522
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oompa loompa View Post
Well then, by that logic, what makes you think god gives a damn about what one insignificantly small speck does either?
If he took that attitude with every single insignificant speck then eventually there wouldn't be any more insignifcant specks worshipping him.
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Old 2010-07-07, 21:35   Link #2523
Toleen
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i'm a muslim
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Old 2010-07-08, 00:53   Link #2524
MetalCookie
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Old 2010-07-08, 01:35   Link #2525
Ending
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Still atheist and probably always will be, because I seriously doubt anyone can come up with a reasonable explanation to a very practical question, which I have been thinking, since I will be travelling to developing country soon.

The question is: there is malaria, which kills hundreds of thousands of people every year (hopefully I won't get infected). Why does it exist? If there is a god or gods, are they not benevolent? If not, I wouldn't worship them. If yes, are they not omnipotent?
If yes => Not benevolent.
If no => Why worship him?

Which leads to the conclusion that human is the master of himself and atheism is the right way of life.
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Old 2010-07-08, 01:40   Link #2526
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ending View Post
Still atheist and probably always will be, because I seriously doubt anyone can come up with a reasonable explanation to a very practical question, which I have been thinking, since I will be travelling to developing country soon.

The question is: there is malaria, which kills hundreds of thousands of people every year (hopefully I won't get infected). Why does it exist? If there is a god or gods, are they not benevolent? If not, I wouldn't worship them. If yes, are they not omnipotent?
If yes => Not benevolent.
If no => Why worship him?
Polytheistic religion, in general, isn't really interested in such questions. The approach to worship, as a whole, tends to be more transactional — people give offerings to deities in hope of getting something in return. Perfection tends not expected from the gods in such worldviews — it tends to be more of an obsession for absolutist, monotheistic religion.

So, depending on which country you're visiting, I hope you'd approach its culture with an open mind. Nothing wrong with being a doubter, but do show respect for different worldviews, even if they happen to be "religious". Religion, after all, doesn't even have to involve worshipping gods.
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Old 2010-07-08, 01:57   Link #2527
Lio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ending View Post
atheism is the right way of life.
The moment you said that, you've become no different than the people who say that their religion is the right way of life.
There's not much difference between atheists and the religious who preach their ways of life and try to prove the other wrong. They're the same kind of people.

As for me? I don't believe in anything. I'm just here, for a little while.
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Old 2010-07-08, 04:07   Link #2528
Yui Is My Wife
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Buddhism
Yui-ism (She is my wife, after all )
Taoism
Maybe Mugi-ism and Ui-ism.
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Old 2010-07-08, 04:34   Link #2529
Ending
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@ Lio

Remember: I'm speaking for myself. You heard what I said. It's up to you do you take it or leave it.

@ TinyRedLeaf

And yet the issue remains. Yes, I do go there with an open mind, mainly in an academic sense. Nothing wrong in knowing a little bit more about history and as to why the country has a war going on between two religious groups.
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Old 2010-07-08, 06:11   Link #2530
TinyRedLeaf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ending View Post
@ TinyRedLeaf

And yet the issue remains. Yes, I do go there with an open mind, mainly in an academic sense. Nothing wrong in knowing a little bit more about history and as to why the country has a war going on between two religious groups.
We tend to see what we want to see. If you're going there set against religion, chances are, you'd find only more reasons to hate the point of view, instead of seeing the instances when it gives people a sense of direction in life.

More often than not, it's people who are at fault, not the religion itself. If you really want to get to the root of violence in that country, look beyond the religious issues. Socio-political and socio-economic flaws are more likely to be the major causes, with religion being no more than a superficial justification for war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lio View Post
I don't believe in anything. I'm just here, for a little while.
Atheism does not equal nihilism. I could go further, but I'd rather not start another flame war.
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Old 2010-07-08, 10:25   Link #2531
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ending View Post
The question is: there is malaria, which kills hundreds of thousands of people every year (hopefully I won't get infected). Why does it exist? If there is a god or gods, are they not benevolent? If not, I wouldn't worship them. If yes, are they not omnipotent?
I now believe that the real question is whether you believe or not.

If you do, then you should worship God according to what the religion says. (And I mean what it really says, not just what you hear people say about it.)

If you don't, then there's no point in asking since you can't expect to worship someone you don't even believe in.
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Old 2010-07-08, 10:46   Link #2532
ZGoten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ending View Post
he question is: there is malaria, which kills hundreds of thousands of people every year (hopefully I won't get infected). Why does it exist? If there is a god or gods, are they not benevolent? If not, I wouldn't worship them. If yes, are they not omnipotent?
If yes => Not benevolent.
If no => Why worship him?

Which leads to the conclusion that human is the master of himself and atheism is the right way of life.
No, there are much more alternative conclusions. Many people believe that humans aren't god's favorite creations, and that they aren't made after him. God might probably not even care about who's dying, as long as someone/-thing dies to maintain the natural balance or for whatever reason.

I'm not religious. I don't actually believe in what I wrote above. However, I wanted to point out that atheism is not the only alternative to (well-)known religions. Religions can be proven wrong, but not believing itself, because there is an infinite amount of possible beliefs.

Beliefs are like water, if science or logic put rocks in their way, they simply form around it.
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Old 2010-07-08, 11:21   Link #2533
Haak
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I'm pretty sure Ending just stated the Problem of Evil argument. It's been discussed to to death already, by philosophers and Internet lurkers alike. Lets just not go there.
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Old 2010-07-08, 11:56   Link #2534
Lio
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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Atheism does not equal nihilism. I could go further, but I'd rather not start another flame war.
I don't imply that I'm an atheist. I simply live spontaneously.

Once you've gone through Ending's phase of having all kinds of negative impressions of religion, always trying to prove them wrong, you'll get to a point where you just drop all that. You just stop caring, and you can begin to see that being religious is a way of life that has played its role in human history, just as much as atheism has. Yet, most people don't choose to be religious, or atheist. It's all a complete accident how we all ended up. Some people just happened to be born into a religious environment, others in atheist.

Sure, there are converts. But for someone like me who's always been an atheist who used to slander religion left and right, you'll get to a point where you just drop all that slandering. You don't even care about how atheists slander the religious, or how the religious slanders the atheist. At that point the distinction between the atheists and the religious who oppose each other begins to blurr.

Most people stop there. They realize that the majority of people had no choice in the path they chose, and they begin to accept their differences.

I simply take it one step further, the leap of faith that atheists are afraid to take - dropping their atheism. What does it matter that religions can lead to violent conflicts, or that atheism is the "correct" way of life? What meaning does it hold to slander the groups who don't live your way of life?

Nothing.

Now, from here, you're left with a third choice - to live spontaneously, without concern for what's right or what's wrong, feeling compassion for both the religious and the atheists.
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Old 2010-07-08, 12:05   Link #2535
ChainLegacy
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It isn't about it 'meaning something,' at least not for me. I just want to get an idea of what the truth is, or get as close as possible. Though I do agree with most of what you said; I went from Catholic -> Agnostic -> Atheist -> now I'm an agnostic that favors atheism and I don't really care what others believe all that much. I don't understand some religious 'logic' and usually when I get into debates on the subject all I aim to discover is the rationale an individual possesses and why they possess it.

I think spiritualism still has its place even for an atheist or agnostic. I don't believe 'spirits' actually exist, but I understand the notion of my life force that is distinct yet interconnected to the world around me. So in a way, for me, Earth is god, and the universe is akin to the titans. I really don't need more than that.
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Old 2010-07-08, 16:54   Link #2536
ICEheaven102
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I'm a Buddhist.
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Old 2010-07-11, 01:27   Link #2537
CrimsonPirate
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Im a Jehovah's Witnesses ...
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Old 2010-07-11, 02:05   Link #2538
Sin of Memories
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I have none and I would go into details as to why but it is pointless and many people would become offended.
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Old 2010-07-11, 17:23   Link #2539
sergho
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i'm religious

atheists are always coming up to me in the coffee shop wanting to debate religion. they can't stop talking about god.

after a lot of arguing over the years it comes down to this, 'why would god let a 4 year old girl die of leukemia?'

no, all the other arguments are irrelevant because fundamentally, you can't trust your senses, everything is a matter of faith whether you're religious or an atheist.

so, i have faith that god either can't intervene in the 4 year old girl's death or he has some plan.
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Old 2010-07-11, 17:51   Link #2540
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sergho View Post
i'm religious

atheists are always coming up to me in the coffee shop wanting to debate religion. they can't stop talking about god.

after a lot of arguing over the years it comes down to this, 'why would god let a 4 year old girl die of leukemia?'

no, all the other arguments are irrelevant because fundamentally, you can't trust your senses, everything is a matter of faith whether you're religious or an atheist.

so, i have faith that god either can't intervene in the 4 year old girl's death or he has some plan.
Curious... do you *wear* something that says "I'm religious"? I've never seen *any* one in a coffeeshop "accosted by an atheist" out of the blue. I have, otoh, been routinely "accosted" (usually nicely) by people attempting to save souls (that is, follow their special version of "Truth", patent pending).

And remember --- 90% of people waving a flag for some belief or non-belief probably can't argue their way out of a paper bag. They've just joined a team on some murky arm-waving or soundbite. Others were just born in a belief and haven't done any deep analysis.
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