[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[LaplaceNoMa]

Well, this reasoning sure was useless, that's true... but I still find these two scenes quite ridiculous. These mistakes make him WAY too incompetent ;_;

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by LaplaceNoMa

Well, this reasoning sure was useless, that's true... but I still find these two scenes quite ridiculous. These mistakes make him WAY too incompetent ;_;

Not really. He never follows through with either of those theories. For the first one, Kanon is only the most likely person to have his master key (it's more likely that he took it and left than for another person to take it and hide Kanon's corpse but not Jessica's), and Battler's just trying to remove suspicion on Kanon. In that case, it's proven that the original assumption was false in the same scene. For the second one, Battler is just expanding on Rosa's theory and hardly has any time to think before the letter and the two extra master keys are found.

But yeah, he is very impressionable at the start. He assumes things really easily, without stopping to consider whether those assumptions are really absolutely true.

[Misuzu]

Originally Posted by chronotrig

For those who can't read Japanese, I strongly recommend waiting at least a month before spoiling yourselves. I can make no guarantees, but I think we can have at least a partial translation patch finished within the first month after the game's release, unless some part of EP7 turns out to be a real pain to translate.

That would be incredible! You guys are truly amazing for doing this for us. Even if something that fast isn't possible, I am always in awe of how quickly Witch Hunt releases high quality patches. I don't state my appreciation nearly enough.

You're right in that it's probably better to hold out for the patch, especially after waiting this long for answers. I've just been let down by the endings of a few other things recently, and when I see how complicated finding any sort of satisfactory ending for Umineko will be, it's hard not to lose faith that we will get a great end. I should make more of an effort- I really do think Ryukishi is so talented, and I was fine with Higurashi's end, even though I know some people here weren't pleased with it.

Originally Posted by Astargoth

For me the most rediciolous idea about Shkanon is the concept anyone could keep up such a charade for 3 years. Even if we were talking about some kind of unholy Solid Snake/Sam Fisher hybrid with a side order of a Hollywood make up artist, there is no way in hell you could maintain the illusion for 3 years. Simply cannot be done even.

Exactly. I could buy Battler not realizing it, since he's incompetent and is barely around Kanon, but I haven't been able to come up with any reason for everyone on the island trying to convince Battler that Shannon and Kanon are two different people. I wish I could come up with a Shkanon theory I don't find ridiculous, since it really does seem very likely that it's true. Here's hoping the answers that are coming make everyone happy.

[Judoh]

Well thanks for telling me. I'll have to hide in the episode 6 and other episode centric threads for now.

Originally Posted by chronotrig

For those who can't read Japanese, I strongly recommend waiting at least a month before spoiling yourselves. I can make no guarantees, but I think we can have at least a partial translation patch finished within the first month after the game's release, unless some part of EP7 turns out to be a real pain to translate.

Now that we're finally getting some answers, it'll probably be much more enjoyable to learn them the way Ryukishi meant for them to be learned. Just hearing one-sentence summaries of the reveals can hardly do the series justice. You have to let Ryuukishi lead you to them if you really want to experience the game the way it was meant to be. We've all stuck with this series for a really long time; it isn't worth weakening the impact of the climax by hearing all the answers beforehand.

It'll be really awesome if you can get a partial patch in a month! Even if it's only a small part of the game.

[winter 923]

Originally Posted by Kylon99

It's actually better to think of the white as true, actually. Obviously towers aren't growing out of the ground...

I'm currently typing the first episode so i can find certain spots easier and white is actually very true and if you know about it already you go "ah of course"
for example
K5 “My father is already dead. ...All that's here is a phantom of what Father once was. At any rate, as long as he has no intention of coming out, there's nothing we can do.” Krauss spun on his heels. He looked at his wristwatch, mumbling and acting as though he had wasted time doing something he knew would be in vain.
The Earth is flat: Kinzo is a stubborn and obsessed person.
The Earth is round: Kinzo is already dead, he just said that.
Both is true in it's current time (or i bow to you if you found that conclusion on your first playthrou)

[sacul097]

Originally Posted by Renall

Well, thus far there is only one piece of evidence of two people possibly being able to use the same name: Battler. Although Battler does theorize on the "Kinzo title," even if true there should probably only be a single "Kinzo." Since the other Kinzo is dead, as long as you're focusing on the affirmative actions of a single person, no problem.

The issue of course is the following:

• "Acknowledged the existence of Kinzo."
• "A living Kinzo."
• "Since [Kinzo] is confirmed not to exist, please exclude him."

If there were a passed-on Kinzo title, how many of these would refer to that person, and how many would refer to the dead one? "A living Kinzo" is especially bad for ep5, as if you believe that there is a Kinzo-title floating around, you either have to believe in switching off personalities or that whoever became "Kinzo" was in Natsuhi's bed all night.

...Unless, by solving the epitaph and becoming family head Battler eradicated the need for the second "Kinzo." If "Kinzo" is meant as a fallback position in case the epitaph goes unsolved, Battler solving it means no "Kinzo" exists well before midnight, as Battler solves it on the 4th.

*insert crack theory about how natsuhi is kanon who is kinzo here*

[rogerpepitone]

Last chance at forming a solution before the big reveal:

Spoiler:

The rules:
Rule X: Shannon = Kanon = Beatrice
Rule Y: Rokkenjima Explosion Incident
Rule Z: Innocents will go along with a faked plan until it is revealed to be real / hijacked by a villain.

Episode 1: Shkanon is the main killer.
Kumasawa gave Maria both the first envelope and the discord envelope, with instructions to reveal one at dinner and the other at 10PM the next day if the epitaph isn't solved.
Kumasawa painted Natsuhi's door around 6 AM as a prank disconnected from the murders.
Kanon painted the second circle on Eva / Hideyoshi's door shortly after killing them; Genji couldn't see the circle due to vision problems. (Genji doesn't notice the markings on Natsuhi's door in episode 1 or 2 until somebody points it out.)
Kanon had already cut through the chain and used some means to trick Genji into thinking the chain was solid.
Kanon didn't really die at the 5th twilight (reason for suspecting Kanon in this Episode).
Not sure why Hideyoshi covered for Shkanon at the beginning.
And there was no envelope at the very end.

Episode 2: Rosa is the main killer.
Jessica and Kumasawa set up the Halloween party. It was supposed to be just a fun surprise for Maria. Jessica was the Beatrice that Maria met (though Rosa's letter was provided by Kumasawa). (Reasons: Neither was on the mainland; see Jessica's comment when they discuss the opened envelope and Kumasawa's comment about delicious-looking pumpkin-shaped cookies.)
Rosa snuck into the cousins' room sometime after midnight and removed the key from the envelope. She killed her siblings in the chapel and locked it.
The next morning, she still had the chapel key when they arrived at the chapel. She ran back to the cousins' room and pretended to remove it from the envelope.
Rosa killed Jessica in her bedroom and left the door open. Shannon later locked the door in an attempt to mess with the killer's mind.
The story about notKanon killing Nanjo and Kumasawa was also a mind game to convince Rosa there was another armed killer about. (Gohda's a lousy liar.)
Rosa drugged Battler (he's asleep when Genji finds Nanjo & Kumasawa) and snuck out through the window to kill the remaining victims.
Maria happens to reveal the discord letter again.
Reasons for suspecting Rosa: Red text limited access to chapel key (and to a lesser extent the other keys), Battler's being sleepier this episode than others, Rosa's access to sedatives.

Episode 3: Main killer Nanjo, also Eva & Kyrie or Hideyoshi.
Nanjo was behind first twilight.
Eva killed Rosa in an accident, then strangled Maria in a panic. (Absence of stakes at second twilight)
Nanjo shot at Rudolf, Kyrie, and Hideyoshi and removed the guns. He didn't realize, but Kyrie or Hideyoshi survived.
Nanjo's comment about his sick granddaughter before he is killed was meant to be "I only attacked you because my granddaughter was threatened / I received an offer that could treat my granddaughter."; he is killed by Kyrie or Hideyoshi.
Eva believed herself to be guilty of all the murders on the island.
Reason for suspecting Nanjo: Lack of alibi across the board.

Episode 4: Main killer is Shannon
Some of the servants revealed Kinzo's will (key part being along the line of "My kids are cut off; my grandkids may inherit if they pass this test.") All the supernatural aspects were a story that everybody agreed on. Anybody innocent telling it hadn't learned that there were real murders. (Gohda and Kumasawa weren't actually dead when Battler went by at 11:45 PM.)
After Battler failed to remember his sin, she held the rifle in the well so that it would fall down there after she shot herself.

Well, I think that's all my theories.

[Thunder Book]

Well, time to wait for the patch.

It was fun for a while spoiler thread.

<See you again>

[Moogleking]

Been fun talking with everybody about the game so far. I'm out till ep7 is done.
Thanks so much for the awesome translation that you guys work so hard for!

[Renall]

So it's out? Lord knows the fake spoilers are sure to be out in force soon enough.

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by Renall

So it's out? Lord knows the fake spoilers are sure to be out in force soon enough.

Indeed. Usually I just fastforward through the new games so I can get the music box and listen to the new musics (especially the new zts murder rave song in each one, lol)

<See you again> in the EP6 thread

[Renall]

We can hope that, for a time, ep7 spoilers will be contained mostly in the ep7 thread (well, when one is put up). But there's no guarantees, so... yeah.

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by Renall

We can hope that, for a time, ep7 spoilers will be contained mostly in the ep7 thread (well, when one is put up). But there's no guarantees, so... yeah.

I'm not taking my chances after tonight, I don't wanna find out how Asumu Ushiromiya was actually Nanjo's daughter or whatever crazy stuff is in EP7.

[Marion]

I'm pretty sure the game is released on Saturday, so it's not until tomorrow.

[UsagiTenpura]

Meh there's at least one thing I want to be spoiled about.
Is it the last ep.
Also if Shkanon Shkanon is confrimed or denied it'd be great to get rid of that debate.
Will probably be out after I learn that much as well. Especially since it seems the board will die...

[LaplaceNoMa]

Okay guys, see you in a month! No matter what's proven or disproven, don't triumph/butthurt too much.

[Kylon99]

I'll be getting it tomorrow, although I don't know if we'll have time to play it right away. But if I do, for now, I'll put any spoilers for EP7 in spoiler boxes on here... 8)

[Ronove]

Aww. So it seems the thread might be dying from the lack of people. No fear! I shall read the spoilers to my satisfaction.

So may I count on the Japanese readers to give slight summaries please? It'd be very much appreciated.

[KanonTheFurniture]

So it's too early for anything real to be out yet, right? Saw this on /jp/:



I'd only consider it being real because one of the screenshots released a few weeks ago seemed to imply Ange might be coming to the island. I think the art is too bad even for Ryukishi (something about those socks especially, also lack of hairthings), but I also remember when everyone thought Featherine and the trap demons were fake...

[Kitsu]

I would consider this fake (until proven otherwise) It's way to early. It should come out in 10 to 9 hours from now.