General Discussion on The New World and Four Emperors [manga]

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

It's like comparing Major league and Minor League
I don't see the inconsistency with this at all. Rayleigh is totally on a higher level then Vista when it comes to haki and power. Rayleigh was the first mate of the pirate king and strong possibly that Rayleigh was stronger then Rogers in the end. I don't see how you could compare those two when they are totally on a different level. Even the marines wouldn't dare go against Rayleigh without proper preparations. I wouldn't be surprised if Akainu's and Kizaru's haki is stronger then vistas. I am sorry to say but Rayleigh is a legend like White Beard and Shanks. He can not be compared to vista.

There's no doubt in my mind that Rayleigh is more powerful than Vista. But even so, you're really selling Vista short. He was able to halt Mihawk from pursuing Luffy during the war. That says something right there.

[grey_1960]

Response to BlackBeard D. Kuma
That is true that he held off Mihawk. Your right i am selling vista short. But I do it because he was being compared to Rayleigh. I wouldn't even compare mihawk or any of the Shichibukai with Rayleigh either. All I am saying is Rayleigh is in my opinion is yonkou level. I say that because the way he is treated in the one piece universe. And how he has performed as well speaks volumes of what he is.

[Kallen4life]

All I am saying is Rayleigh is in my opinion is yonkou level.

Mihawk fought equally with Shanks .. Mihawk = Yonkou level ? actually, possibly yes


their sword skill is likely quite close, possibly even Vista is better a little bit (Vista went up against Mihawk .. also, Rayleigh has been out of battle for 20 years), but I do agree that Rayleighs Haki is stronger, if only for the simple fact that he is so far the only character to casually demonstrate total mastery over all 3 Haki forms multiple times



however, I'm pretty convinced that Akainu's Haki (or at least armor-haki) is stronger then Kizaru's armor-haki, it just kinda fits, Akainu is basically an unstoppable Determinator-Terminator-Juggernaught, WB himself couldn't take him out of the fight for good, whereas Kizaru is lazy and indifferent

but, this can also be explained, as noted above, as Rayleighs Haki being stonger then Vistas and Kizaru's, but Vistas not being stronger then Akainus

OR that Kizaru was simply caught off-guard, as far as I remember SH's were fleeing and Kizaru made that light-road to go after them, ignoring Rayleigh nearby - and Rayleigh stopped him with a haki-slash, cutting the cheek .. i.e. he didn't activate his own armor-haki in time

[hero147]

Shanks and Mihawk aren't equals. They only sparred regularly. Mihawk still holds the title of greatest swordsman in the world. I'm guessing most of their duels Mihawk won. But that does not put Mihawk at yonkou level. Shanks may not consider himself a swordsman, and could be hiding a greater power. In all honesty, in speculation, I think Shanks would destroy Mihawk. Their "duels" only tested their skills as a "swordsman," and not anything else.

[paradox13]

But that does not put Mihawk at yonkou level.

Why don't you believe that Mihawk is at 'Yonkou' level?

[Kallen4life]

in speculation, I think Shanks would destroy Mihawk.

I'm reasonably sure even if Shanks won a serious fight between them - it would be hard fight that wouldn't be easy for him - nowhere near 'destroy'

[SOGESNAKE]

We also gotta remember that when they sparred together, Shanks DID have both of his arms. Though I guess that really doesn't matter, as still blocked that attack from Whitebeard AND Akainu. But seeing as Mihawk was fighting on par with Vista, I wouldn't put Mihawk on Yonkou level.



He probably isn't much a swordsman anymore, but as said above he probably is hiding a much greater strength~

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by SOGESNAKE

We also gotta remember that when they sparred together, Shanks DID have both of his arms. Though I guess that really doesn't matter, as still blocked that attack from Whitebeard AND Akainu. But seeing as Mihawk was fighting on par with Vista, I wouldn't put Mihawk on Yonkou level.



He probably isn't much a swordsman anymore, but as said above he probably is hiding a much greater strength~

I'd hope when Mihawk and Shanks fought they were on par, because it just makes Zoro seem to need more work if he wants to get on par with swords men like Shanks. Zoro already has a bad eye(Unless that has more power)

[grey_1960]

Mihawk at yonkou level?
I don't think so either. He may be the greatest swordsman but he is not yonkou level. If he were yonkou level he would have not been in the war. Second If Mihawk was yonkou level White Beard would have never made it to the Execution platform. Third Crocodile stopped Mihawk from killing Luffy. Yonkou would have dealt with croc like a nobody.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

Mihawk at yonkou level?
I don't think so either. He may be the greatest swordsman but he is not yonkou level. If he were yonkou level he would have not been in the war. There would have been no way for the marines to win against two yonkou levels. If Rayleigh showed up during the war the battle field would have been in the favors of Whitebeard. Second Crocodile stopped Mihawk from killing luffy during the war. That is not yonkou style at all.

Well Yonkou style and power are on two different beats. You can still be on Yonkou level and be in the war

[grey_1960]

Response to secretzfan
You posted up my post before it was edited. Sorry about the changes in my earlier post.

I don't think so. If Mihawk was yonkou level White Beard would have never made it to the Execution platform. Second I doubt Jozu would have been able to stop the slash that went towards whitebeard. Third Mihawk would have been unstoppable in that whole war then. If you look back at the whitebeard war. You can tell who the two yonkous are. Whitebeard who the marines need the elite, three admirals, and the Shichibukai. Then you have Shanks who dictated the end of the war and the terms. Those are yonkous.

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

Response to secretzfan
You posted up my post before it was edited. Sorry about the changes in my earlier post.

I don't think so. If Mihawk was yonkou level White Beard would have never made it to the Execution platform. Second I doubt Jozu would have been able to stop the slash that went towards whitebeard. Third Mihawk would have been unstoppable in that whole war then. If you look back at the whitebeard war. You can tell who the two yonkous are. Whitebeard who the marines need the elite, three admirals, and the Shichibukai. Then you have Shanks who dictated the end of the war and the terms. Those are yonkous.

Mihawk was on the Shichibukai.
Anyway yea I just thought it be said to find out Mihawk wasn't since Zoro got trained by him and one day Zoro will have to fight Shanks

[paradox13]

I don't think so either. He may be the greatest swordsman but he is not yonkou level. If he were yonkou level he would have not been in the war. Second If Mihawk was yonkou level White Beard would have never made it to the Execution platform. Third Crocodile stopped Mihawk from killing Luffy. Yonkou would have dealt with croc like a nobody.

One can be at 'Yonkou level' as long as one can spar on par with the weakest Yonkou. Note that Wb is the strongest yonkou, and may be some level from the weakest one.

Also note that the power and influence of the yonkou laid not just from the captain, but als his crew and his allies. Whitebeard had 43 allied New world crews who were wiling to lay down their lives for him and his crew, as well as 15 shichibukai level commanders with 1300 men. I'm sure the other three yonkou have similar level of influence and power.

Mihawk has no crew.

[Kallen4life]

Mihawk is a beast, that's for sure

[marvelB]

Boy, all this talk about Rayleigh makes me look forward to that possible "Bronze" guy from Roger's crew even more.....



Anyway, while I don't like talking about character tiers much, I suppose I'll bite this once: I wonder how Blackbeard's crew compares to the likes of those of the Yonkou, especially with the addition of the level 6 prisoners? We haven't really seen them go all out yet, but with the reputation they have (they were all supposed to have been erased from history, after all), they must be some real beasts when they go all out. Shiryuus Shiliew (ugh) alone was said to be equal in strength to Magellan, who was certainly no slouch (when he didn't have the squirts, anyway), so it's anyone's guess as to how strong the others may be. Personally, I'd have to say that out of all of Blackbeard's crew, the ones I'm most looking forward to seeing in combat are Jesus Burgess, Doc Q, and that jolly ol' boozehound, Vasco Shot. Oh, and I guess Catarina Devon has piques my interest a bit, as well (am SO glad that she didn't end up with that generic pretty samurai design ).....

[Kallen4life]

I wanna see Shiryuu's ( I refuse the correct spelling) sword-skills, preferabbly vs someon in Mihawk's league (Shanks, Vista ? Rayleigh mb ..)

and Vasco's sniping skills vs someone like Usopp (eventually), Benn, Yasopp

[marvelB]

^Pretty sure you mean Van Augur. Yeah, I'm looking forward to his duel with Usopp too, but I'm more interested in those who's fighting styles are still unknown....


BTW, seeing as how Teach's beard grows out more and more by each new appearance of his, I wonder if the skip gave him facial hair that could now rival Whitebeard's epic 'stache?

[secretzfan]

I would love to see Shanks vs Zoro

[SOGESNAKE]

Originally Posted by marvelB

BTW, seeing as how Teach's beard grows out more and more by each new appearance of his, I wonder if the skip gave him facial hair that could now rival Whitebeard's epic 'stache?

Well, seeing as those appearances he made weren't that far apart, 2 years better results in the King of All Beards. Maybe something along the lines of....

Spoiler for Blackbeard Beard:

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by SOGESNAKE

We also gotta remember that when they sparred together, Shanks DID have both of his arms. Though I guess that really doesn't matter, as still blocked that attack from Whitebeard AND Akainu. But seeing as Mihawk was fighting on par with Vista, I wouldn't put Mihawk on Yonkou level.

Vista holding off Mihawk doesn't mean he's Mihawk's equal. You can't use the war's short, inconclusive fights as definitive indicators regarding tiers.

Originally Posted by grey_1960

Mihawk at yonkou level?
I don't think so either. He may be the greatest swordsman but he is not yonkou level. If he were yonkou level he would have not been in the war. Second If Mihawk was yonkou level White Beard would have never made it to the Execution platform. Third Crocodile stopped Mihawk from killing Luffy. Yonkou would have dealt with croc like a nobody.

We haven't seen the full extent of Mihawk's capabilities. Furthermore, he didn't manage to cross paths with Whitebeard in the war because he was preoccupied with fodder for the most part. Subsequent to Croc intercepting Mihawk, we saw nothing of their altercation. Chances are their attention was diverted towards something else, much like all of the other fights in the war.

Originally Posted by marvelB

Personally, I'd have to say that out of all of Blackbeard's crew, the ones I'm most looking forward to seeing in combat are Jesus Burgess, Doc Q, and that jolly ol' boozehound, Vasco Shot. Oh, and I guess Catarina Devon has piques my interest a bit, as well (am SO glad that she didn't end up with that generic pretty samurai design ).....

Jesus Burguess - I expect to see some insane wrestling moves from this guy (Kinnikuman Style )

Doc Q - You can just imagine how many nasty tricks this bastard will have up his sleeve. Tons of lethal/poisonous concoctions; that scythe; his nickname "Death" says it all.

Laffite - A former peace officer in the West Blue sea who was exiled for being too violent. He'll definitely be one of the most cruel/sadistic characters in the story.

Van Auger - I eagerly await a long and strategic sniper duel between him and Ussop (kind of like fighting "The End" in Metal Gear Solid 3 ).

Can't say much about the others seeing as how we know next to nothing about them. I imagine that hilarity would ensue when seeing the drunkard Vasco Shot fight .