2011-02-01, 13:18 | Link #21803 | |
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Also, I imagined Kanon was killed not to "dodge a red in the Meta-World", but to screw with Erika. I still sort of like Erika-ball theory, and if Erika is Jessica...
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2011-02-01, 13:20 | Link #21804 | |
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anyways,shannon is a real person not a persona so thats why she leave a corpse after she's killed. |
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2011-02-01, 13:22 | Link #21805 |
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If you're talking about Kanon's existence and non-existence in the guest room, I'd say there are better ways to solve it than red-avoiding Shkannon. If we wanted to discuss this in detail, though, we would need a list of all the relevant reds as well as a description of the scenario and contradiction (at least, I would like one, since I know well enough that I don't have photographic memory and may very well miss a lot of details). If someone neutral could write a good one it would be very productive. Otherwise we're just talking half-blindly here.
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2011-02-01, 13:31 | Link #21806 | |
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http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Truth its hard to find the answer if you want to avoid it. anyways,im not talking about shkannon,what i think is yasu=kanon and beatrice kanon and beatrice are the persona yasu created. |
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2011-02-01, 13:45 | Link #21807 |
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If Kanon is naught else but a concept, how exactly does he die? Does he "die" several times a day, even on normal days? If he can only "die" when permanently erased (at least within the bounds of a single story), what would that mean for a disguise variant? If he's a personality/persona/character-portrayed, is it so simple to say he "died?"
And before we start getting into "ep8 confirms personality death!" think very hard about what ep8 actually proposes. Are these circumstances analogous?Well, that would certainly be a lot less problematic to explain. I also like "Beatrice was talking about a different scenario, one in which Kanon isn't there/doesn't exist."
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2011-02-01, 13:51 | Link #21808 |
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That's a useful list of reds, but I still don't remember the context well enough. What I don't remember:
- The contradiction is that Kanon was confirmed to 'rescue' Battler, meaning he entered the room, set Battler free, and locked the room with him inside. At the same time, he was not there. Is that correct? - This contradiction aside, what are the logical problems that occur when we assume Kanon is not a persona of Shannon, but an actual person? What needs clarification: - How exactly does the Shkannon solution work? I don't remember how Yasu is supposed to avoid the reds, such those about the seals being unbroken and there being 5 people in the room at times XYZ. - I was going to write, "is there a problem when assuming Beatrice is talking about two different games?", but was beaten to it. Is there a problem with that? I mean, technically, I'd say she already does that with the final reds in the episode. |
2011-02-01, 13:53 | Link #21809 | |
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im sure yasu acted as kanon. oh yeah its the same as battler killing the battler persona.in ep8? im not sure though |
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2011-02-01, 13:58 | Link #21810 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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To contrast, referring to the crackpot gun theory, it's also important to discuss whether "dying" (in the human sense) equals "not existing". I'm not sure we can avoid the red if we say Kanon bit his tongue after entering the room, for example.
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Last edited by witchfan; 2011-02-01 at 14:18. |
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2011-02-01, 14:19 | Link #21811 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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-the problem is how can kanon die without leaving a corpse? in ep7 Will said that illusion doesn't leave a corpse and illusion return to illusion,so i think kanon is a illusion in other words a persona/character. |
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2011-02-01, 14:22 | Link #21813 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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The only ghosterika interpretation that I'm willing to accept is the Erika=Beatrice theory. Because in that case we have a person that was actually hinted to play many different roles. But for the rest it's simply a bad trickery to say that Rosa or whoever is Erika without the slightest clue. On the other side about shkanon you can say anything but not that it wasn't hinted.
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2011-02-01, 14:27 | Link #21814 | |
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im also assuming the same thing,that shannon is not kanon,so there's no problem if yasu is kanon? |
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2011-02-01, 14:39 | Link #21815 | |||
The True Culprit
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2011-02-01, 14:42 | Link #21816 |
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Given who supposedly wrote End and Dawn, isn't it more that Erika is Battler?
I mean there's no literal interpretation on a story level where that makes sense but if Erika's just a separate and wholly fictional existence, she basically is kind of Battler. "So yeah the guy you can't remember you are and the girl you made up are stuck in a bedroom and we need your ex-girlfriend's imaginary maid's imaginary brother to save him." "How's she gonna do that?" "Does it really matter?"
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2011-02-01, 15:02 | Link #21818 | |
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Although if that was a valid move, I don't know why you'd even bother bringing Kanon into it. Why not just have Battler commit suicide? |
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2011-02-01, 15:09 | Link #21819 | ||
The True Culprit
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2011-02-01, 15:11 | Link #21820 |
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The entire Logic Error is pretty stupid. Unless and until someone comes up with an elegant solution that explains it from top level to bottom level, it's always going to feel a little contrived. It's possible that it simply was contrived, but we can hold out hope to the contrary.
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