Madoka Magica - Episode 08 Discussion / Poll

[pikachuwei]

kyuubey sounded like he enjoyed eating himself .___.

and didnt madoka have a younger sibling or something? what are the chances homura is the sibling?

[Master Chibi]

Chuck me into the group that wants this series to get uglier, darker, and sadder with each episode. I want a pile of dead bodies and Madoka in the middle of them at the end of the last episode.

It's been ages since I've enjoyed reading about theories being flung back and forth.

I'm hoping Homura is from an alternate timeline / the future where Madoka made a wish that saved everyone / everything but at a huge price. Homura wishes to go back to change that, even at the cost of everyone else in the damn universe.

<3

[Makender]

Originally Posted by Deconstructor

Sayaka was aware of the consequences, yet she blindly charged forth into battle without regard for her own survival. Sayaka did everything she could to kill witches, believing that she would save people from harm. In the end, she gave up her soul and her sanity, paying the ultimate price. That is something I must respect.

Bad things happen to good people.
Terrible things happened to Sayaka. But she had a heart of justice... no matter who condemns Sayaka, she left me utterly compelled.

Perfect time to interject some Socratic philosophy! Read my sig. Recklessness=/=courage.

[Deconstructor]

Originally Posted by Makender

Perfect time to interject some Socratic philosophy! Read my sig. Recklessness=/=courage.

I agree with this.

But I don't think Sayaka was without bravery, either.

[Key Board]

magical girl kanji is : 魔法少女
魔法 = way of magic / sorcery / magecraft
少女 = young girl

kanji for witch is = 魔女
魔 evil / magic
女 woman

You can not spell magical girl without witch

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Key Board

magical girl kanji is : 魔法少女
魔法 = way of magic / sorcery / magecraft
少女 = young girl

kanji for witch is = 魔女
魔 evil / magic
女 woman

You can not spell magical girl without witch

魔 =/= evil / magic

魔 = Demonic

悪魔 = Evil Demon

[yakuri-moe]

Is it me or Hitomi and Kamijou's conversation didn't look like someone was confessing their love and more like an actual conversation? It would be so screwed up since it'd mean Sayaka felt angsty for nothing.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by pikachuwei

kyuubey sounded like he enjoyed eating himself .___.

and didnt madoka have a younger sibling or something? what are the chances homura is the sibling?

Given that the sibling is a boy, I think pretty unlikely.

This was the Greek tragedy episode, I suppose - the tension came not from suspense but from seeing what was coming and being unable to stop it. Sayaka'a death may have been the most foreshadowed ever, and as for Incubator being evil, well - I don't think there's anything more that can be added to that conversation. About the only real surprise moment was Homura's emotional breakdown.


There have been a lot of "climax"-feeling eps already, and we still have a month to go. It's intense and exciting, but I hope the series can sustain it.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Edit: At the very least, Reckoner, I'd like it if you could admit that plot twists and turns can make at least some shows better.

Oh I'm not saying that this is isn't true. There are many shows out there that have benefited greatly from the introduction of nice plots twists and turns. I guess all I was trying to say is that plot twists for the sake of plots twists isn't a good thing, and that it isn't necessary, and/or necessarily advantageous to include such things in a plot.

[D-Gold]

looks like I was right about QB being evil.

So basically this episode confirms QB status as the final boss with more than one life
and Sayaka is now the mid boss you face before the final boss , almost all of the cast has the ability to become a witch ,and madoka is god tier.

[yakuri-moe]

Originally Posted by D-Gold

looks like I was right about QB being evil.

Who didn't think QB was evil to some extent? Not to mention it was painfully obvious.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

I haven't been bothered to post once for this anime, even though I've been watching it weekly, but I feel this is the perfect moment to jump in.
A lot of things surprised me with this episode, and a lot of things didn't. Regardless, this episode is probably the best out of the eight released so far for me. Especially Sayaka's evolution into a witch. It was almost clear-cut she'd become some sort of evil force from the last episode, so I guess a witch was sort of granted. But damn... the buildup still left me breathless afterwards. I had to watch it twice, because the full effect hadn't quite set in after the first one.
I have to say, regardless of whether it's predictable or not, Gen sure as hell knows how to drag you into his stories.
What surprised me was how they played Kyubey the Incubator reveal, and placed him out front as the series' villain. Sure, you can debate for eternity whether he's truly acting out of evil intentions or just not place-able as a good or evil character. But I still had my doubts about him being the villain. Most villain characters acknowledge they stand in opposition to the "hero" characters. Kyubey, even with his little witch rant at the end of the series, still isn't placing himself in opposition-except against Homura. But I guess there's no refuting the fact that he's the villain now.
Which begs the question. What is Walpurgis Night's role in this story? We know it's some sort of massive force of a Witch. But if Kyubey's been placed centre stage as a villain, why worry about it?
I have an idea, but first some musings on Homura.
As much as I'd rather something else, I'm pretty much set on her being from the future... sort of. Not six months, three years or something like that. He power is a manipulation of time, and it's power grows depending on the purity of her soul gem, right? So here's my theory: Homura comes from about two weeks plus a few days in the future. In her timeline, as the sole Mahou Shoujo in the town, she sets forth to fight off the Walpurgis Night, which I'm half-sure is attracted to the town by Madoka's magical potential. Madoka is fretting about how she can help her friend, and in her moment of weakness, Kyubey grasps a contract with her.
This is where I flounder, and start grasping at straws. I can't add up how, but Homura uses her time manipulation to hurtle herself back two weeks, thoroughly exhausting herself in the process. Due to some retroactive editing through Madoka's magic or Kyubey's influence (unlikely, as he doesn't recognize her), Homura's existence has been erased from Madoka's life.
Regardless, I'm confident Homura's lived the time period the series takes place in before.

Two other musings. First, what is Kyubey? As far as I know, all the Witches were described as female, and his witch rant supports this. Second, what is Walpurgis Night? From it's name, it doesn't sound like an individual witch. But Homura mentions fighting it, so it only seems reasonable that it's associated with Witches. I'm guessing it's a massive convergence (or perhaps a hive-mind) of Witches.

[Fandal]

So nobody is talking about Kyoko? She was alone but now made a friend! Well, at least for a bit

[MeoTwister5]

Watched it with subs this time, and now I'm fairly convinced that the ball is now entirely in Madoka court this time. For the last 7 episodes she's been almost purely a spectator watching everything happen, and while she acts as the viewer's stand-in by proxy as the observer of events and as an emotional crutch, she hasn't really affected a lot of the events directly despite being labeled as a "chosen one" of sorts by QB. Her role as an emotional crutch has clearly failed this time for Sayaka, and everyone is going to pay the price for it.

Sayaka does have a point though that I've been emphasizing for a while: Madoka doesn't really understand because she insists on putting herself on the outside. She may be the titular character but she's the least informed and the least involved. It's rather ironic that despite being the outsider, she practically has much more to lose in the end compared to everyone else. She doesn't get herself directly involved but when shit hits the fan, she will lose everything even if she doesn't lift a finger. She's lost Mami, Sayaka has now stared into the abyss, and unless something is done everyone else is sure to follow. Whether or not this is because she refused to act is debatable, but as it stands the one who hasn't done anything will lose everything unless the correct action is taken. I highly doubt Homura and Kyoko can do it on their own. Madoka will have to help in some way to stop the madness.

QB after this point should be almost clear as day. Connecting all the dots show that he's been playing both sides all this time. He practically has complete knowledge about the entire MG and witch cycle, so ignorance is no longer an excuse. The only way you could propagate this cycle is if you intend for it to continue. Likewise it is now safe to infer that he WILL get some sort of benefit from causing the continuation of this cycle. His own morality is now irrelevant; he is causing mayhem within the human world for his own ends, so he is to be judged by the moral standards of the society he acts in and the victims he creates. No more middle ground here. By the accepted social label, QB is evil.

Homura's words during her breakdown also helps encapsulate into one neat package Madoka's current state. She does, indeed, wallow in some degree of self pity and self esteem issues. Curiously though, Homura insists that Masoka stop feeling so powerless, to start believing in herself, and do something. At the same time she stops her from contracting QB to gain some power. When I watched the RAW I didn't understand a lot of the conversations of the final half, but with the subs it feels clear as day for me already. I think Homura wants Madoka to reach some sort of awakening, some sort of personal and emotional catharsis that will free her from her current state and allow her true powers to awaken. I think Homura clearly believes that Madoka can achieve this state of power to do what she thinks is right, without resorting to a devil's contract with QB. That leaves me with only one conclusion:

There is another way for Madoka to become an MG, that does not require contracting with QB, and Homura has an idea how that may be.

So based on the idea that Homura is from a different timeline/future that ended in tragedy, chances are this tragedy stems from contracting with QB, but the overall situation requires Madoka's power to rectify. So yes, I'm now in the position to think that Madoka will indeed be an MG, just not from QB. Actually I suppose that QB only presents one of other possible ways to let latent powers come out, it's just that his way has a ton of fine print and baggage. Until the final showdown, the next episodes will probably be how Madoka comes to terms with herself, and how she'll be able to tap into her own powers without a one-sided contract.

As of the end of episode 8 it's probably safe to say that things have come full circle. The series started out on Madoka, shifted to the side characters with Madoka as an observer, and now returns to Madoka after the fact and the fallout. The call is clearly in her court now, no more Hail Mary's or last minute saves. Everything is now on her shoulders whether she likes it or not.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

There is another way for Madoka to become an MG, that does not require contracting with QB, and Homura has an idea how that may be.

This is a very interesting line of thought. If this is the case, I can see that Madoka's final task might be to eliminate the last witch in the world, Homura.

[SagaraSouske]

So the multiple QB is definitely confirmed - I was surprised how fast the new one showed up though. It seems it can appear at anywhere any time. Homura trying to kill QB before he can find Madoka seems to be kinda pointless then since QB will bound to run into her if he can travel anywhere pretty much instantly.

The whole begging for his life in front of Madoka in Ep 1 is pure acting lol. Since his death would have meant nothing.

I think Madoka has been held back for character development due to Mami/Sayaka Arc. There were a little development with the mom/daughter talk but it took back seat again because of Sayaka. The interaction now between her and Homura will prob spur her to develop into a more interesting character. May be she can make a wish herself without contracting with QB and become capable of using magic and also not have the wish backfire - at the consequence of losing Homura somehow.

Hope there is more to QB then just incubator. Grief seed farming gotta have a grander purpose.

[Kinematics]

Originally Posted by Monir

In comparison, Madoka's ideals are similar to those of Sayaka's. And yet she can't take that step to become a MS either because of her own fear and uncertainty. And yet she doesn't mind accompanying Sayaka even though she very well knows there is absolutely nothing she can do. She is heartfelt for Sayaka, she is trying to empathize, she wants to help even though it is so very clear for all of us she can't help Sayaka in any shape or fashion. It's like someone in the hospital who is trying to soothe a terminal patient. I know my example is crude but that's exactly what has been Madoka's role thus far.

So in other words, Madoka is to Sayaka as Sayaka was to Kamijo. The analogy fits remarkably well.

Sayaka constantly visited with Kamijo, trying to cheer him up, doing whatever she could that she thought would make him feel better, despite the fact that for all practical purposes her presence there was completely useless, if not actively detrimental. Pretty much exactly the same thing as how Madoka has been trying to support Sayaka.

Kamijo's reaction to Sayaka's presence when he hit rock bottom (being told his hand could never be fixed) was pretty much the same as Sayaka's reaction to Madoka's presence -- complete rejection (though Sayaka added the extra "why don't you join me?" dig). Both regretted saying what they did, but at the same time, their frustrations just hit a breaking point. Note that I'm not saying that they didn't say their true feelings. Those *were* their true feelings at the time they were spoken, just not their *only* true feelings.

Originally Posted by Estavali

After watching this episode, I have this growing suspicion that Homerun-chan is actually a post-Walpurgisnacht Sayaka.

Haha! That was my thought exactly! After all the speculation of Homura being Madoka (which never really made sense to me), what if it was Sayaka? Still, that pretty much falls flat on its face when you consider that Homura never really expended any effort to save Sayaka herself.


On another note: Seems we're given a pretty good idea of how Homura survives without being so dependant on grief seeds. If magic causes corruption, she uses as little magic as possible, supplementing her hax time-stop powers with mundane weapons (bombs, grenades, guns) that she can apparently hide in her shield (some sort of pocket-space). Surprisingly effective.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

This is a very interesting line of thought. If this is the case, I can see that Madoka's final task might be to eliminate the last witch in the world, Homura.

Who knows. From the looks of it, maybe Homura is an MG that is not one by contract, but by the same method that is likely going to be needed for Madoka to awaken. But is she were, then it looks like a terribly real scenario since she will always have the capacity to become a witch, and Madoka cleansing her would be required to stop the cycle once and for all.

Talk about a downer ending. Of course we could always get a Tomino Ending, and that might be awesome.

[omimon]

The question now is why don't Homura just spill the beans and tell everyone everything she knows. Maybe it is a condition for time-traveling.

[D-Gold]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

This is a very interesting line of thought. If this is the case, I can see that Madoka's final task might be to eliminate the last witch in the world, Homura.

I am thinking more along the lines of homura sacrificing herself to help bring out madoka's powers.

So if homura is from a different timeline is there a homura from the current timeline? Maybe Alternate homura possessed current timeline homura.

It is kind of unnecessary in my opinion to explain homura time travel that way but it could be the case.