2011-04-10, 23:01 | Link #22581 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
It answers how Kanon came back to life in ep2 and ep3, the closed room chain in ep3 (the adults didn't lie about anything in that one, probably), why Kanon had no corpse in ep2 or ep4 and the ep6 logic error.
...Without it, I don't think there'd be any way to arrive at the conclusion that Yasu is not a character in the story at all but in fact is only represented through personas/ imaginary friends. I don't think it would've been possible to work it out from Shannon alone. |
2011-04-11, 02:59 | Link #22582 | ||
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
2011-04-11, 06:48 | Link #22583 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
And yet EP8 shows that it actually happens.
Don't quote things out of context. This is the scene of Battler that realizes that Ange is missing. The piece Ange was removed from the gameboard without him noticing, he had to physically check the room first. This proves that Battler doesn't have an omniscent view on the gameboard. What is actually strange here is that the event that could have triggered Ange's disappearance couldn't have happened because he was the Game Master and he never planned that. The truth is Bernkastel hijacked the gameboard and he didn't even notice until he was told that Ange disappeared. And yeah if you think enough about it you can notice that it doesn't make much sense, but these are the facts.
__________________
|
2011-04-11, 07:37 | Link #22584 |
Senior Member
|
Leafsnail:
1) The only evidence that Kanon came back from the dead in Episode 3 is a scene that occurs when Battler is absent. If that's admissible, so is the scene in Episode 1 when the servants are preparing dinner just off-screen, and Shannon and Kanon are both there. So is the scene in Episode 2 when both Shannon and Kanon are outside the chapel. 2) How does "Shannon = Kanon" explain Kanon's resurrection better than "Shannon != Kanon"?
__________________
|
2011-04-11, 08:48 | Link #22585 | ||
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
||
2011-04-11, 08:50 | Link #22586 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
Quote:
The first one you mention is indeed valid in a metaphorical sense. Shannon feels like Kanon is there (note that Gohda completely ignores him). This makes sense since they seem to have something of an "imaginary friend" relationship. The second one... I can't remember Shannon being present at that at all, actually. I remember her being quite conspicuously absent. Would you mind citing it? Quote:
Episode 2 is arguably explained better by Shkannon than by 2 people who can independantly die by personality death. "Gohda sees Kanon, who changes clothes into Shannon" would seem to explain his testimony quite well ("At first I thought it was Kanon, but then..."). |
||
2011-04-11, 10:24 | Link #22587 | |
Senior Member
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2011-04-11, 11:53 | Link #22590 | ||
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
|
Quote:
And just as importantly, what purpose would making them be wrong actually serve? The end result of that scene is that they know someone is doing things behind Battler's back anyway, so if Bern already managed it before, there shouldn't be a compelling reason to contradict it. Quote:
For a metaphor, think about a blind chess player playing a game by phone. The player can't see the pieces, but he normally understands the whole board because he set up the starting position and all moves have to go through him. But if someone has an extra key to his house, they could quietly steal a piece, and he wouldn't notice until the next time he tried to move it.
__________________
Last edited by LyricalAura; 2011-04-11 at 12:14. |
||
2011-04-11, 13:09 | Link #22591 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
|
Which is exactly why Yasu didn't have the time to change outfits. "The death is being faked again, creating a closed room with the culprit hiding in plain sight" would be my interpretation. Shannon would pretty much have to follow Jessica and Nanjo, leaving her with no time to pick up Kanon's outfit or change.
|
2011-04-11, 13:50 | Link #22592 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
|
Quote:
You are overanalyzing it. The Game Master doesn't have an absolute knowledge of the game board, he knows thing to a "certain degree", and it's really lame if you ask me but that's how it is. If you interpret that sentence literally then it would mean that it's natural that the Game Master is omniscent but in that case nothing of what Bern and Erika did in EP6 would make any sense. Your theory shouldn't be called "genious Battler" but "retarded Bernkastel".
__________________
|
|
2011-04-11, 14:04 | Link #22593 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
|
I always saw those scenes in a different way. As long as there is a possibility of something happening then it could happen. So Battler created a scenario where the family members got him out of the bind. Erika planned for that and created her own scenario where that wasn't possible. If Battler had phrased some reds differently near the start of that game he would have prevented Erika's scenario from working.
|
2011-04-11, 14:36 | Link #22594 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
Quote:
Address the logical contradiction. Battler cannot possibly be surprised in ep8 if he was surprised once before in ep6. The very idea that it happened twice, both times involving Bernkastel, should mean that Battler was expecting it. How does his reaction make sense in light of the fact that he ought to have already known this sort of knowledge gap was possible? It doesn't. The scenario can only turn out the following ways:
What is the alternative logical solution to this that allows one to cling to the idea of his consistent incompetence?
__________________
|
|
2011-04-11, 15:50 | Link #22595 | |||||||||
The True Culprit
|
Quote:
And Yasu's illness is possibly just a coverup as part of her orphan backround, for all we know. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Fantasy Scenes are always interwoven with bits of truth. If Shannon and Beatrice can only speak to each other in dreams, there is a reason for that. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Unless you can give me a non-magical explanation for how Shannon can transfer her emotions to another flesh-and-blood person, memories included, then they're the same person. Quote:
And come on, now. Zepar and Furfur go on and on about how furniture doesn't have a complete soul, and for one of them to be complete the other contestants have to give up their soul-pieces. If that's not a metaphor for some MPD bullshit I don't know what is. Also Genius Battler confirmed woot woot
__________________
|
|||||||||
2011-04-11, 22:40 | Link #22597 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
|
Spoiler for Umineko:
Put into a spoiler for length. Please feel free to contradict me on anything I have said as I am very open to that and would enjoy learning more even if it means making my assumptions look stupid. Also editing for good measure, Maria has claimed that Beatrice can possess people in episode 7. Perhaps Beatrice ''possessed Maria'' and wrote the note thinking she was Maria? Which would explain why it's not in Maria's handwriting. Last edited by cronnoponno; 2011-04-11 at 22:56. |
2011-04-12, 11:25 | Link #22599 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
|
After it happens once, you might be like "Holy heck, what happened!?" When it happens twice, even if it slips past you, are you really going to be like "Well that's weird, that shouldn't be possible!" You should already know it is possible... because it happened once already, and everyone involved in the conversation was there to see it happen.
__________________
|
|
|