2011-07-29, 10:07 | Link #341 | |
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Why was Homura in a desperate situation? It's not like she couldn't have made the exact same wish a week later, and then started time looping to protect Madoka.
Your criticism of Sayaka is simply not fair, unless you're going to make the exact same criticism of Kyouko and Homura. Mami perhaps gets a bit of a pass because of her circumstances. Quote:
Look, it's simply human nature to care more about specific people that are very important to you than about the world in a general sense. Personally, I'm kind of impressed that 4 of the 5 girls made wishes primarily for the sake of another person, or other people (Sayaka for Kamijo, Homura for Madoka, Kyoko for her father, and Madoka for Puella Magis in general) rather than think of a genuinely selfish wish. While none of the girls (except Madoka) thought "big picture good for all", at least none of the girls thought of your typical selfish wish (wish for lots of money, wish for eternal life, wish to be a famous movie star, etc...) either.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-10-19 at 17:20. |
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2011-07-29, 12:01 | Link #343 |
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You're still not addressing the obvious difference between, "It would be wonderful to use my wish to put an end to world hunger," and, "The guy I love has lost his dream. I want to give that back to him, and I have a wish with which to do that." It's nice that you think people should prioritize the world at large over their immediate family and friends, but the people who think like that (assuming they even exist =/) are few and far between.
I can say with absolute certainty that, if I had a free wish, I'd sooner use it to help my friend walk again than cure cancer. Why? Because my friend means more to me; everybody is like that. |
2011-07-29, 12:48 | Link #344 |
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I was actually talking about a different kind of wish, one that solves both problems. Something like "I want everyone to be cured, no matter how worse their condition is" would take care not only of Kamijou, but also of many, many others.
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2011-07-29, 13:17 | Link #345 |
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I don't think the wish-system works like that. You have to feel the wish; the emotional intensity is what powers it. What you suggest would be the rational thing to do, but if rational would work the incubators wouldn't need emotional human beings in the first place.
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2011-07-29, 13:48 | Link #346 |
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Mostly what Dawnstorm said. Presuming for a moment that Sayaka actually has enough magical power to pull off such a wish (that wish is a tall order; I'm not certain Sayaka would be strong enough for it), she was mostly focused on Kamijou. For her to think her wish through to that extent would require considerably more knowledge of how wishes and the system as a whole works than what she had at that time. We see as much through Madoka; it took her the entire series to reach the point where she could make as carefully thought out and detailed a wish as she did.
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2011-07-29, 20:59 | Link #347 | |
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As for Kyouko being "too young to understand how many possibilities lie in Kyuubey's wish", Sayaka is only 14 herself, isn't she? Speaking personally, my conception of the world was a lot more limited when I was 14 than it is now as an adult. All I'm asking from the Sayaka critics is basic fairness. To simply apply the same standards to all the other Puella Magis that you apply to Sayaka. Of course, I think that when the harsher Sayaka critics do that, they'll soon see that they are, in fact, being overly harsh on Sayaka.
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2011-08-05, 18:50 | Link #348 | |
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What I'm saying is that I didn't like how she didn't really take some things seriously. |
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2011-08-05, 19:04 | Link #349 | ||
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2012-03-19, 00:31 | Link #351 |
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Man I feel so bad for Sayaka, to have her love of her life be taken away from one of her best friends! How cold is that?! FUCK HITOMI.
Then again, I feel like Sayaka should of pursued Kyousuke, but I understand the trauma she was going through with not being "human". Sayake's spiral of depression into becoming a witch is definitely one of the most tragic things I've seen in an anime. The other would be Welcome to the NHK, the series in itself. |
2012-03-19, 01:38 | Link #352 | |
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2012-03-19, 10:41 | Link #353 | |
The GAP Man
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2012-03-19, 15:25 | Link #356 |
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It sucked though considering that she "sacrificed" her humanity to give the boy she loved a second chance only to have that taken away from her. It was pretty unfair that the friend she trusted took away Kamijou while at the same time learning that her body is that of a zombie was a really huge blow to take.
Sayaka's moments of despair and anguish were definitely the most tragic I've ever seen in an heroine in a while. The fact that she brushed aside Madoka's concerns and not seeking the emotional support from a best friend set in motion her descent into madness. I mean out of all the girls wishes Sayaka pretty much got the bad end of the bargain, and not only it cost her humanity, but the opportunity to be with the boy she loved. Sayaka's my second favourite character in the series because I love her tough as nails, kind, and sincere personally plus she looks awesome as a magical girl. Like Mami, Sayaka's fate really made my heart ache because she deserved better than what she had to endure up until her final moments.
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Last edited by Kirito; 2012-03-19 at 20:30. |
2012-03-19, 16:25 | Link #357 |
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Well, my biggest issue with Hitomi is that the 24 hour time limit was pretty brutal. If Hitomi had given Sayaka a few days, at least, I'd have much less issue with it.
Secondly, the whole way Hitomi laid out the news and the 24 hour time limit seemed kind of cruel to me. Hitomi's tone and demeanor struck me as pretty hash the entire Hitomi/Sayaka scene. In fact, it was so harsh that I honestly had a theory that Hitomi was a secret agent of Kyubey who he was using to screw things up badly for Sayaka and Madoka, trying to force Madoka to make a wish with him. This wasn't a good scene for Hitomi. But in fairness, pretty much every girl in this show had at least one scene where they came off badly (yes, even Madoka - re-watch Episode 8, and there's a scene that might stand out to you here). Aside from this one scene, I liked Hitomi well-enough.
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2012-03-19, 18:50 | Link #358 |
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I wouldn't be so harsh on Hitomi....ultimately it was Kamijou that accepted. The feeling in the anime was that Sayaka's love was one sided. He was grateful for her support, but he never seemed to reciprocate any of her feelings. I think she loved him because of his music, that was the real connection between them. She just wanted him to play again, because he had the gift of playing.
So I guess I'm saying that Sayaka was as naive about love as she was about justice, and I think with her two speeches in 8 and 12, that we see how she grew from both.
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2012-03-19, 21:15 | Link #359 |
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I agree with Solace, though Triple R raises a fair point with the 24 hour limit seeming a bit harsh. OTOH, if you interpret the 24 hours as being more like, "You've had all this time and haven't acted, so if you don't make your move in 24 hours, I will," it doesn't seem quite as cruel.
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2012-03-19, 22:30 | Link #360 | |||
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Yes, Kamijou snapped off at Sayaka once, but it was for reasons that didn't have to do with her, per se. Listening to beautiful violin music when he no longer could play the violin filled him with angry regret, at least for a moment. It's understandable. Quote:
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What's naive about wanting to protect the people that you love? What's naive about objecting to somebody letting innocent people die in order to collect Grief Seeds? I don't think a person would need to be naive to agree with Sayaka here. I'm certainly inclined to agree with her on both of these points. The 24 hour time limit really was harsh, and I think it's a perfectly fair point to raise against Hitomi. Intentionally or not, that was cruel of Hitomi. Especially when you consider how she delivered the revelation to Sayaka. She could have been less blunt in her words, and tried to soften the blow. She did nothing of the sort. Now, I don't think that this ruins Hitomi's character or means that she should be completely hated. But I don't see the point in sugarcoating what Hitomi did. In truth, she put romantic desire before long-standing friendship. She has a right to do that, but viewers also have a right to disagree with it. And I don't find the interpretation offered up by Akashin that compelling. Kamijo was in the hospital for serious injuries. Is that really the best time to make a romantic confession to him? I think Sayaka had perfectly good reasons for putting that off, and Hitomi shouldn't hold that against her.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-03-19 at 22:58. |
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