2011-08-08, 00:55 | Link #841 | ||
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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As was pointed out in Utena, to demand gender differentiation would mean to demand gender roles. And it is easy to point out that under that criteria, Female Shepard would not be able to even BE a Spectre. It boils down to this; how and why you would want female Shepard to be a different person to the male version? And how would you make changes in a way that isn't perceived as derogatory?
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2011-08-08, 01:18 | Link #842 |
User of the "Fast Draw"
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I don't think the point that james is trying to make is off or one that will get him in trouble. Even in the future you'd figure that the sex you are born with will have an impact on your life and how people interact with you. It's not demanding gender roles or forcing people into certain behaviors. Unless of course we are just assuming in the future all people treat each other asexually.
Anyways I don't really care since I only play as male Shepard anyways . Will focus on less deep topics, like what kind of firepower the Normandy will be packing for Mass Effect 3 .
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2011-08-08, 01:28 | Link #843 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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I want F-Shep and M-Shep to have distinct personalities. I said nothing of gender roles, though I wouldn't mind realistic gender identities (Right now, due to their exact dialogue, M-Shep and F-Shep could be said to have the same identity (the player character), consequently their romantic entanglements seem less realistic since their underlying gender identity comes across as confusingly similar (which makes their romantic choices unrealistic to their core identity)). That being said, an easy solution is to simply give the characters different lines, even if the intent behind the lines stays the same. While the content may not change, the fact that the delivery changes will almost instantly add character definition to either gender without needing to conform or break any specific gender roles (admittedly, F-Shep already breaks many gender roles).
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2011-08-08, 02:16 | Link #844 | |||
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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As I say, it is all about jumping from theory to practice. What sounds nice on paper would come out horrendous in the game. Quote:
That would mean that the entire story would change depending on the gender, and the audience would get screwed over just because they picked one gender over another. e,g: "What did you mean Tali died because I choose the female Shepard?" This is something all game makers realised very quickly. They cannot differentiate between genders for the protagonist, because to do so means forcing the audience to make an uninformed choice about the game. And finally, isn't it the player that determine what Shepard's personality is suppose to be? So why should gender matter if the player has the final say? Quote:
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2011-08-08, 02:47 | Link #845 | |
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
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I don't know what the alternative to "treating people asexually" is supposed to be. If you're talking about sexually charged interactions, keep in mind that nobody is actually into everyone of one sex or another. Someone's "type" is a lot more specific than that, and this is just one bullet point on the list. Male Shepard and FemShep are the same character in a different body. It's just a parameter of the character customization process. I don't expect intrinsic differences in personality (aside from my dialogue choices) between my redhead Shep and someone else's blond Shep, either. |
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2011-08-08, 04:53 | Link #846 |
I asked for this
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Winterfell
Age: 35
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Lots of sexist comments here today. Fem Shep is a soldier, why the fuck should she behave differently than the male Shep, they come from the exact same background. Gender identities are nurtured, it is not something that comes natural to any of us.
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2011-08-08, 05:49 | Link #847 |
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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Exactly, my Femshep and Shep are different classes and I make them act quite different. Of course FemShep and Shep playing Paragon Soldiers is exactly the same outside of romances. Make one of them start to get red eyes, have a different class, the game changes than.
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2011-08-08, 07:02 | Link #848 |
Tastes Cloudy
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Snake Way
Age: 35
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Sheesh, all i was talking about was little bit diffrent lines, some lines work for men and some work for women.
If tali said the line about her being rescued by a "dashing" commander yada yada it would seem awkward seeing that Dashing is more of a male term. I'm... not sure what the female counterpart is for dashing tho.
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2011-08-08, 10:37 | Link #849 | |||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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That being said, why is this a bad choice. Who you are intrinsically affects the world around you. Part of who you are is your gender identity. So, wouldn't it be more realistic for situations to arise (sometimes) based on gender identity? Quote:
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Additionally, you are dealing with humans at least an equal amount of time to all the aliens, so even if alien races find the matter trivial, it is not quite as realistic of the human race. Quote:
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--- That being said, I feel I have diverted the discussion and for that I apologize. Please respond (and I might respond via PM in kind), but I will take this off the thread for now. Last edited by james0246; 2011-08-08 at 11:00. |
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2011-08-08, 10:40 | Link #850 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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2011-08-08, 11:48 | Link #853 |
Carbon
Join Date: Nov 2003
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from my experience, male and female shepard DO have different personalities
male shepard has a generally even temperament, except when he's angry and as much as he tries to be bad-ass, there is a goofy dorkish tone in his voice that comes out every know in then. female shepard is OH SO SERIOUS all the time.. she inherently emits this dangerous aura all the time.. which good if you're playing that kind of character.. but not so good if you're not.
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2011-08-08, 11:51 | Link #854 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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In my opinion, the difference in Shepard's gender should not be noticable through Shepard's actions, but rather the actions of those around Shepard. Shepard is who we make of him or her. It is the player who forges Shepard into the character he or she is, and that should not change. Violent or kind, patient or reckless, gay or straight, we as the player should determine these qualities.
That does not mean, however, that the same thing goes for the characters around us. Yes, we define the character of Shepard, but the people inhabiting the Mass Effect galaxy have their own personalities. Personalities we do not control. These people could, and in my opinion should, be the key to defining the difference between male and female Shepard. For example, a stubborn stereotyped NPC might be more reluctant to trust a female Shepard in combat, or a guard might be easier persuaded by a female Shepard to let her pass. A male Shepard might get into more ego-fueled fights during his conversations in a bar, or have more trouble with a certain infamous reporter. On the romantic front, just because our Shepard is gay or straight should not change the romantic priorities of the characters around her. This is one of the pitfalls Dragon Age 2 fell into, making almost everyone both straight and gay, and was played much better in Origins with Zevran and Liliana. We should not be able to romance everyone because we want to, but also because the characters we try to romance want to. |
2011-08-08, 12:53 | Link #857 |
blinded by blood
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Well, I'm going to half agree and half disagree with this. Like james already mentioned, the two Shepards have virtually identical dialogue. That's kind of an issue of laziness as you put it--I feel the same way about male and female Hawke in DA2. Their dialogue is practically identical, with only a few tiny differences.
It'd be nice if they actually had different scripts. That way, there would be more than simply a cosmetic difference and the ability to romance different NPCs between the two Shepards. I'd love for a canon!Shepard and fem!Shepard to have completely different lines. That way, you'd up the replay value--and I'd actually play as a male Shepard if there were differences in the story and dialogue between the two. I've played Dragon Age Origins several times, for different origins--while the bulk of the story is virtually the same, there are many dialogue differences between a human mage, a Dalish elf and a dwarf noble Warden. But there was no recorded voice for the Warden, so it's a little easier to understand. However I still consider it laziness on Bioware's part. Since they already had to have a male and female voice actor, they could have easily just had a different script for Mark Meer and Jennifer Hale.
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2011-08-08, 13:18 | Link #858 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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They could, yes. But that goes contrary to the design philosophy of the game, that being that you are the one who decides who Shepard is.
You mentioned Origins, and that's nearly exactly what I meant. Not that Shepard becomes a different character based on her gender, but that the world itself treats her differently based on her gender. |
2011-08-08, 14:00 | Link #859 | |
do you know ベアトリーチェ様?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 35
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Actually, yes, I think a few touches of this would be very cool. I suspect that some groups obsessed with "political correctness" would whine upon hearing about the game being different for differently-sexed Shepards, though. |
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2011-08-08, 16:16 | Link #860 |
Adeptus Animus
Author
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Probably, but they'd whine if Shepard gets different dialog based on gender as well. If it's the world that treats Shepard differently, then they both keep the "player decides who Shepard is" element and the extra replay value for playing both genders.
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effect, games, mass |
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