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Old 2011-09-09, 08:47   Link #1001
Ka Ra Ku Ri
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Boogie down Bronx
While I don't think Tokizane is the "bad guy" I did find it a little odd that he said he was at school, yet he nor the teacher could be found until after the battle.

and of course that aircraft was suspicious as well.
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Old 2011-09-09, 08:52   Link #1002
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
Now that we're 9 episodes in and have seen such content, who here thinks we'll see a cliffhanger ending for the TV series, and the story will continue with the already announced movie?

Or it could just be a recap film, which would be interesting to see.
I expect a cliffhanger ending. If we don't get a full-on cliffhanger, I expect Saya to finally & completely wake-up but to not engage in the final battle until the movie.

In case anyone cares, I'm the Tokizane is a good guy under some sort of mind-control camp.

Avatar: Hazuki of Natsuyuki Rendezvous / Signature: flowers from Natsuyuki Rendezvous
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Old 2011-09-09, 10:25   Link #1003
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Wanna know what sucks the most? We won't be seeing the movie for a LONG time. We, as in anyone but Japan. Hate that so much. Ill be spoiler hunting to be sure.

Anyways, I really wanna know what the deal is with the dog, who is constantly saying something like, "its almost time" and "shouldnt be long now", my god just hurry up and give us a piece of info. As much as you all want to deny it, we know literally NOTHING about this show and its nine episodes in. I want to know the answer!
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Old 2011-09-09, 11:49   Link #1004
Join Date: Mar 2011
an 'answer' would not be all that significant independent of the idea (the question) examined throughout. The nature of identity via character study is not resolved until Saya's multifaceted perspectives ascertain what is thus 'true'. The disembodied conjecture of earlier episodes suggests a query of what is fundamental to identity, whether it is time, experience or something intrinsically preceding these. The question of "to whom" could well be Saya herself.
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Old 2011-09-09, 18:21   Link #1005
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I think Tokizane (and/or Yuka) may be her sibling. Tokizane may very well be the alternate reality male version of Diva.

Spoiler for Yuka:

We know that an Elder Bairn made fun of Saya and her father. They are both good guys.

Tokizane kind of looks like Saya's father and they both had a tense standoff. Tadayoshi came out with a sword, ready to kick some ass.

Tokizane and Saya may have different mothers. Tokizane may be a full breed and Saya a half breed.

Something is obviously up with Kanako, the homeroom teacher. She's probably a powerful vampiress and could be Tokizane's mother.

As for the pact? I think Saya may have given up the memories of her mother to avoid pain and to live in peace. If she remembers the name, that means the spell is broken and the deal is void. She can't remember her mothers' name or who she made the promise to protect humans to.

I think her flashbacks are about the day she lost her mother. Her house was probably attacked while she was late to get home. And then she promised her dying mother she would protect people like her. But then she freaked out and made a pact to live a normal like one she may have lived in the past. Her dad probably felt like crap.

I wonder if we'll see her dad, aka Dracula, in combat.
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Old 2011-09-09, 19:41   Link #1006
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Monsters ask "why are you angry"?
No people around in sight except classB
All Beautiful female classmates dead. (HHNNNGGG)
Eye view from the top appears to be the military surveillance plane as shown.
The female doctor appear in the wrong nick of time after the massacre.
Tokizane appear twice after the monster dead.

My head is now spinning. Its part Clamp after all. Well its probably the secret govt. might be involved for some purpose.
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Old 2011-09-09, 20:32   Link #1007
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Blood C++

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Old 2011-09-09, 20:39   Link #1008
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^ That's got to be the worst virus protector ever
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Old 2011-09-09, 21:15   Link #1009
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Originally Posted by liro View Post

lol, where can I get one?
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Old 2011-09-09, 22:39   Link #1010
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THEORY TIME:looking at this like I would a novel or literature this is what I have got: Saya and everything about her is the "center of the story" so since CLAMP is "existential" we have to look at the major factors around "Saya" to get the answers. to me it comes down to three mysteries (potentially four) 1) the wish that the dog is there to grant 2) the agreement Saya made the the narrator and 3) the agreement between the humans and monsters. Of course "who she promised" is important however i feel it is a direct co-ordination with one of these three things so I while exclude it for now

Now take these three things, we know every about any of them so we can't say what they are individually HOWEVER we can look at how they in theory would relate to each other- as it is only twelve episodes it is safe to assume there is only one "evil GRAND SCHEME". There for these three mysteries are either:

all benefiting this grand scheme aka are all essentially the same thing or parts of a single product (If so the entire series is a conspiracy against Saya)-

or two are connected while the other is an opposing force

personally I think it is going to be Saya's promise to the narrator an the characters involved with that mystery will be the real antagonist- the monster human pact seems to secluded to this one village to be the real enemy hear- and clearly the WISH is soemthing to help Saya:

OK the human pact was a wish that watainu granted years ago made by humans as they had no other means to destroy the furikomono- one of the "PAYMENTS" for that wish where disturbed by the villain (I'd say class president, black haired boy or cake man) in order to fufill the experimentation that person keeps on talking about in the dream sequences. Saya is the daughter of Saya form Blood: the last Vampire, as Saya was the only remaining pure blood- the new Saya is the only half blood, as she has the capacity to save humans from monsters (much like the last Saya) is a necessary component for the villains plan (if it is cake man it is possible do to his age he used the first Saya and she failed). The teacher is a researched who is obsessed with the paranormal so while she is not a true villain, she said herself she is willing to do anything to learn something new and is either working on her own or working with the villain- setting up the students as bait so that she can learn more about the furikimono- knowing CLAMP she will either die at the hand of your own selfishness OR be doing ti for the greater good, needing the knowledge to defeat the villain.

Saya's dad is not the villain as it is to obvious, he is either a tool to control her, delusional or trying to protect her.

now what is the agreement between Saya and narrator/Villain: well one of the clauses involves breaking the monster-human pact, the other involves Saya trying to protect the people of the village from the resulting chaos- we know it is an experiment on the human psychy and it has something to do with the BLood: the last vampire movie. Finally upon it being revealed at the stories end I am sure it will then cause the issues in the small town to extend into a matter of global concern to be solved in the upcoming movie- it will also probably bring in the reoccurring motifs such as the road moving into the country side, the moon slowly becoming full (possibly a deadline). If it is the cake man, it involves the candy there, if it is the class president, it explains why he survived the attack and if it is black haired guy it explains why he wasn't there for the attack/love Saya for no reason (naturally from these three one will be the villain, one will be the love interest and the other will die)
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Old 2011-09-10, 01:54   Link #1011
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I don't think anything about the village is actually real. Whether this is some sort of induced dream, alternate reality, or carefully constructed faux village (where the characters are "programmed" in some fashion) in her original world, who knows. But almost all of the characters in the village are likely completely unaware that they are merely playing a role in some experiment. One other question that should be raised is why is Saya handcuffed in her promise flashback. Maybe playing out this experiment is partially some sort of test or retribution because of the Blood TLV incident. Also, I don't think that her "father" is her father at all. She is very likely the same saya from the Blood TLV incident.
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Old 2011-09-10, 02:50   Link #1012
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Does this get better? I only got up to ep. 3 before I dropped it a while ago cause it was getting boring and too slow.
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Old 2011-09-10, 03:23   Link #1013
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Originally Posted by Morisato View Post
Does this get better? I only got up to ep. 3 before I dropped it a while ago cause it was getting boring and too slow.
9 episodes in and I'm already pulling my hair.

Could we get to to the point already.
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Old 2011-09-10, 08:31   Link #1014
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I think that the whole village is a stage as in The Truman Show, but the actors are unaware of the furukimono. One of the fishermen killed in episode 4 said a suspicious line: "I wasn't told this". Told by whom?
I think everything is a government-controlled experiment and Kanako-sensei is a researcher that oversees the experiment. The fact that only class 2-B was at school makes me think that they released the spider-thing willingly to see how Saya would react to having her classmates killed.
I am still unsure about the aim of the whole charade. Is it to test if Saya can be used as a weapon? They certainly are willing to sacrifice a lot of lifes to this objective...

In the flashback Saya was handcuffed, meaning she could have been captured for some reason and forced to take part in this experiment. Or she was promised freedom if she overcame the trials. Either way, she was brainwashed into thinking that she is a normal human.
The mysterious narrator (I think he's Fumito) once said something about "replacing hatred with other strong emotions, love and trust".

It is quite obvious that Saya herself isn't human. The question is if she is a furukimono or another being (vampire). If she is a vampire, it's possible that the guimauve and the coffee contain blood to soothe her vampiric thirst. Otherwise it's just a drug to reinforce the brainwashing.
Going back to episode 8, the fact that Tadayoshi had blood on his mouth might mean that he is also a vampire. I don't think he is her real father and I think her mother never existed and the "holy sword" was Saya's property in the first place.

Now the other big question is who made the wish to Watanuki and what did he/she pay for the price? Please don't make it another Tsubasa Chronicles scenario, CLAMP...
Tibi, magnum Innominandum,
signa stellarum nigrarum
et bufaniformis Sadoquae sigilim.
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Old 2011-09-10, 10:40   Link #1015
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Well, if nothing else, I see the chief appeal of this anime now.

It's a slow-boiling horror mystery. Half of it is conventional (though ruthlessly executed) slasher-horror, and the other half is like a good detective mystery.

The action scenes were very good in this episode, and this particular Elder Bairn did come across as impressively destructive and menacing.

In fairness to Saya, this is one time I don't really blame her for failing to protect these kids. I didn't find their screaming over-the-top - It was an absolutely unreal horrific situation that I think most people would be put close to a state of shock over - But I do fault them for just freezing like that. When something fast and lethal shows up, and clearly wants you dead, you run. You run as fast as you can, and you don't look back, and you get as much distance as possible between you and the killing agent. Some of these students just froze, and just watched Saya battle this latest elder bairn for a good minute or more. It's really hard to protect people who completely freeze at the sign of imminent danger.

Now, some speculations:

It's clear at this point that only a small handful of characters truly matter - The rest are cannon fodder. The characters that matter:

The Dog

And that's pretty much it. Everybody else is just around to be slaughtered, and help contribute to Saya's emotional descent, but likely memory reawakening. Indeed, I expect the Class President to die next episode. I think that he was kept alive simply so they'd have somebody left for an elder bairn to kill.

For me, the most interesting moment in this episode came when Tadayoshi and Tokizane finally shared a scene together.

Now, ask yourself this: How would a guy normally act towards the father of a girl he had a crush on? Especially if this was his first time meeting that father?

My answer would be "He'd try his best to give a good first impression. He'd try to win the father over. Winning over the father of a girl you have a crush on can go a long way to really hitting it off with her. This is especially true for Saya who adores her dad."

Tokizane didn't do that at all here. In fact, he treated Tadayoshi almost as though he were a romantic rival...

I go back to a much earlier theory that Tadayoshi is actually Saya's "former" husband and/or lover, prior to her losing her memories. For whatever reason, Tadayoshi is now playing the father role towards Saya. It probably all goes back to Fumito, and Tadayoshi playing this father role in order to try to protect Saya in some fashion.

Saya doesn't know her mother's name because she is her mother, in a sense. In other words, Tadayoshi attributes things to Saya's mother that Saya herself actually did or suffered.

Tadayoshi and Tokizane both know what is really going on here, and who Saya really is. The school slaughter was clearly a well-orchestrated trap, and I think that they were both aware of that. But they don't particularly care. All either of them cares about is Saya. I think that both men sincerely love her (be it a fatherly affection or a romantic one), and are solely focused on doing what's best for her.

Now, I'm not necessarily saying that either of the two helped plan this slaughter, but they were at least informed of it (i.e. "Stay far away from the school if you don't want to get killed"). Perhaps they are "control elements" in the experiment, people that Fumito (and Tsutsutori-Sensei?) want to see survive throughout the experiment.

My further suspicion is that Tadayoshi wants to keep Saya in the dark, because he thinks that is in her best interests. I think that Tokizane disagrees with that assessment, and that he's the one who made a wish to get "the dog's" help, but he's doing this on the sly.
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Old 2011-09-10, 12:13   Link #1016
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Age: 31
The people in this anime behave like in a bad horror movie. A monster is rampaging in the school? Let's run to the roof where there is no means for us to escape and turn into easy pickings! Only one kid was smart enough to get out, but he was killed by a falling piece of glass as a result of Saya kicking the monster into the window (if it weren't for her, he would have successfully espcaped, I swear she did that on purpose ). Talk about bad luck.

Anyway, as expected, Saya didn't manage to protect anybody. This is becoming into a running gag. There's pretty much nobody left for her to protect, so this ought to end soon.

I'm surprised some people think Tokizane is a bad guy. He's obviously hiding something, but that doesn't necessarily make him bad. The main reason I can't see him as a bad guy is that he's a terrible liar. A real bad guy like Guimauve-kun would have been able to lie to Saya while looking at her straight in the eyes, all the while smiling. I think he's genuinely concerned for Saya and that he probably knew her in her former life (I can't stop thinking of him as this series' Haji), but after her capture he's been forced to go along with this charade. I would honestly be very surprised if he turned out to be ill-intentioned, so it'd be a neat twist for me.
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Old 2011-09-10, 14:18   Link #1017
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Anyway, as expected, Saya didn't manage to protect anybody. This is becoming into a running gag. There's pretty much nobody left for her to protect, so this ought to end soon.
Seriously this show is getting to be annoying. See a monster on the school grounds a hundred yards away? Jump out the freaking window and fight it! But no, she just sits there gawking with everyone else, and waits for it to come in after her and start chewing everyone up.

I stopped watching right after that scene to come here and complain lol... I liked this anime up until the point people started randomly dying left and right. There's no weight or meaning to it. I wanted those of Saya's acquaintance to be shocked and awed to see her fighting. I like those kind of revelations between characters where secrets and such get revealed. But no, this lame anime just has her friends experience a moment of shock and terror before being casually killed.
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Old 2011-09-10, 16:34   Link #1018
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As usual, plot holes galore but it's OKAY because she's not really fully herself unless someone does something to piss her off and her eyes glow red!!!. ... Just kill a couple dozen of her friends first.

Everything is forgiven, because none of the supporting characters really matter as they are all in her head. Merely lambs to the slaughter of her vampiric immunity to regain control and her memory.

I'm not satisified with 11/12 episodes being just a buildup to a big reveal... either they should've increased the pacing or made it into a 26 ep series and finally reveal at ep 12 and leave half the series for the "real world"

Anything can really happen in this pseudo reality of hers. Clamp gets to use the excuse of all these constant faints/passing out to move the plot a long or as a soft reset to the storyline. It's ep 10 finally, and we'll get to see something real happen, but next thing you know... series is over! It's like just one big tease to build money from the Blood franchise. I feel jipped

well at least I got to see the dogcat thing squirt his white stuff all over the bath when Saya was nekkid
He whose strength is flawless
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Old 2011-09-10, 17:09   Link #1019
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Originally Posted by Tsukiyomi View Post
I'm not satisified with 11/12 episodes being just a buildup to a big reveal... either they should've increased the pacing or made it into a 26 ep series and finally reveal at ep 12 and leave half the series for the "real world"

well at least I got to see the dogcat thing squirt his white stuff all over the bath when Saya was nekkid
@1st paragraph: That's what the movie will be for I suppose
@2nd paragraph: What...? Did watanuki step on some shampoo dispenser or soap dispenser or something??
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Old 2011-09-10, 19:27   Link #1020
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Originally Posted by miroku2192 View Post
@2nd paragraph: What...? Did watanuki step on some shampoo dispenser or soap dispenser or something??
Actually, yes, he did!

Truthfully, Saya not jumping out the window to fight the Elder Bairn (ep. 8) left me shaking my head at how idiotic she was being. I was amazed that she noticed the total absence of anyone else in the school (when I saw that I'd been really hoping it was a plot point and not just the animators being lazy) and asked about it...

Too many questions left unanswered--Saya's "promise" and the "covenant" that the Elder Bairns talk about appear to be different things, and the human authorities involved (Kanako-sensei and the people in the observation helicopter) raise interesting questions...but what I wonder is, if the "town" is an artificial construct of the human government or so on, with hired "actors," then where do the villainous Elder Bairns come in, who clearly have their own agenda...why are they attracted to the "stage"?
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action, blood, clamp, miko, production i.g.

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