AnimeSuki Forums

cereal_killerxx · 2011-07-13, 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by zibbazabba905

continuing this from the translation thread

When I read through (most of the series) it was an extremely rainy month, and almost every day I was reading it would just downpour. perfect background setting.

Hooked from EP1? I've had a hard time getting people to read this getting bored with the first half of EP1. I kind of think the tea party should happen in the beginning to hook people in

I just got done reading the tea party too and don't really understand it.

Spoiler for Episode 1 Tea Party:

AuraTwilight · 2011-07-13, 18:54

It happens after EP1. The exact mechanics of what's going on are vague at this point in the story, but Battler and the others find themselves in a place that's referred to as the Meta-World. Maybe it's the afterlife. Maybe it's a magical realm Beatrice created. Maybe Battler is hallucinating. Who knows?

What you do need to know is that from here on out, Battler and Beatrice will battle in this world, observing the timelooping Rokkenjima Island from outside of it, like two people watching a movie.

cereal_killerxx · 2011-07-14, 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

It happens after EP1. The exact mechanics of what's going on are vague at this point in the story, but Battler and the others find themselves in a place that's referred to as the Meta-World. Maybe it's the afterlife. Maybe it's a magical realm Beatrice created. Maybe Battler is hallucinating. Who knows?

What you do need to know is that from here on out, Battler and Beatrice will battle in this world, observing the timelooping Rokkenjima Island from outside of it, like two people watching a movie.

Thanks for clearing that up. Can't wait to start Episode 2! ^.^

Edit:

Spoiler for Episode 1:

AuraTwilight · 2011-07-14, 02:53

Yea, which is why Kanon and Shannon were there, even though they were dead.

cereal_killerxx · 2011-07-14, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by zibbazabba905

continuing this from the translation thread

When I read through (most of the series) it was an extremely rainy month, and almost every day I was reading it would just downpour. perfect background setting.

Hooked from EP1? I've had a hard time getting people to read this getting bored with the first half of EP1. I kind of think the tea party should happen in the beginning to hook people in

The first half wasn't as good as the second half, but I still liked it quite a bit. The characters were detailed with great back stories.

Meltyred · 2011-07-14, 17:06

I found it really interesting as the second part made you question the character's personalities shown, and also their true nature.
It doesn't just throw all that background information away, it infact recycles it and gives so many ideas for how the story went.
The clues are in fact the murders, but to explain the murders is also another mystery.
Then there's the anti magic vs. anti fantasy which makes you think that there are even more sides to the coin.
It's like the ultimate catbox, but instead of 2 answers, you can have a infinite number of possible explanations depending on your view.
The epitaph is another mystery, except it's more of a riddle.

C-chan · 2011-07-15, 04:42

Umineko always begin with back stories. Not to mention light moments which brings heavy drama and sadness once the murder begins. The mystery part is one thing the readers can enjoy dwelling while reading the characters' movements and theories. That's why most of the characters are likable.

Meltyred · 2011-07-15, 04:50

I only dislike genji, he's like a robot moving around....

Kylon99 · 2011-07-22, 02:54

Ok, now that I've fixed my signature...

I was going to say that it was really, really hard for me and everyone I know to get into EP1. The massive number of character introductions and how for such a long time nothing 'strange' happens to draw you in...

It took me (and others) about 4 months to get more than 10 minutes into the narrative. 8)

I think Ryukishi needs to work on this much more or get an editor... (yeah, it's too bad BT died... maybe he was doing this for him.) There are parts in later episodes where he just repeats the same thing over and over again, or drones on about stuff.... 8)

cereal_killerxx · 2011-07-26, 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kylon99

Ok, now that I've fixed my signature...

I was going to say that it was really, really hard for me and everyone I know to get into EP1. The massive number of character introductions and how for such a long time nothing 'strange' happens to draw you in...

It took me (and others) about 4 months to get more than 10 minutes into the narrative. 8)

I think Ryukishi needs to work on this much more or get an editor... (yeah, it's too bad BT died... maybe he was doing this for him.) There are parts in later episodes where he just repeats the same thing over and over again, or drones on about stuff.... 8)

I can understand that, but with all the massive amounts of detail in the first episode, it makes the dreadful events that follow that much more dreadful.

Xyrius Cherubim · 2011-08-03, 09:45

yep, I agree. the first episode is the episode where you still think that the mysteries are solvable and you will (most likely) read thoroughly and try to remember any weird things you come into. lol

that is also why I hate (well, just a bit, though) EP2 for repeating the whole murder case with only a few new story elements
*a little bit out of topic*

C-chan · 2011-08-05, 23:34

Well, I think the whole murder part was repeated to be a challenge not just for Battler, but for the readers as well.

Xyrius Cherubim · 2011-08-07, 07:40

yep....a challenge for boredom (persistence) and (probably) mind sharpness...lol

RandomAvatarFan · 2012-01-07, 21:17

Hey, in the TIPS, it talks about Kanon's and Shannon's names, I remember there was a conversation about it in EP1 as well as how they got to wear the One Winged Eagle. I'm scanning through the entire game right now looking for it, but was wondering if anyone knew off hand which chapter that was.

clinty456 · 2012-01-09, 00:31

These are I think all of the mysteries in Episode 1.

1. The Witch's epitaph.
2. The letter and umbrella given to Maria.
3. What Rudolf wanted to tell Battler on the night of Day 1.
4. The gold bar Krauss showed to Natsuhi.
5. The markings on Natsuhi's door.
6. The six deaths (Krauss, Rudolf, Rosa, Kyrie, Shannon and Gohda) in the tool shed. Who the killer is and how the bodies got there and the blood in the dining room.
7. Kinzo's disappearance from his study.
8. Eva and Hideyoshi's deaths in the spare guest room.
9. How Kanon died.
10. How Kinzo was burned in the furnace.
11. The letter in Kinzo's study.
12. The deaths of Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa and the singing Maria in the parlour.
13. The letter of unknown contents Natsuhi had.
14. Natsuhi's subsequent death and the disappearance of the letter.

1. The epitaph would be hell to reason with from clues is Episode 1 so I'll skip over that.

2. It's possible that Maria is an accomplice who is only used to further strengthen the illusion of a 19th person. As was stated by Kyrie, it is unlikely that a 19th person exists. If they wanted to make their presence known, all they would have to do is walk in on dinner and greet everyone. I think Maria had the umbrella and the letter in her bag the whole time. This could also explain the appearance of the letter in Kinzo's study near the end of Episode 1. Maria was responsible for it all.

3. Again, this one is hard to think about as the only mention of it is near the end of Day 1 and even then, not much was spoken about it. Rudolf did, however, say that he thought he was going to die so that could mean that he knew about the plan or is an accomplice. But if he is an accomplice, he wouldn't have died straight away. This could mean that he faked his own death which is possible as his face was completely smashed, unlike Krauss's face, which was only half smashed. Rudolf could also have been speaking metaphorically and had really meant that Kyrie was going to have wild sex with him that night, though this is really unlikely.

4. All I can say is that the gold exists and Krauss managed to get his hands a bar.

5. This makes two people very suspicious. As I am a strong disbeliever of actual fantastical magic, this means the person who made the markings must have known about Jessica giving Natsuhi the charm. It's logical to assume that Natsuhi hung the charm on the inside doorknob, not the outside. So anyone walking past Natsuhi's room wouldn't see the charm hanging on her doorknob because it was the other side of the door. This means only Jessica and Natsuhi know about the charm given to Natsuhi. As the door's markings imply that Beatrice tried to enter the room but failed, it proves that someone knew the charm was hanging from the doorknob and also knew the charm's magical properties, implicating Jessica. Unless Natsuhi also somehow found out about what the charm can do, Jessica is the prime suspect for the scribbles.

6. I think they were poisoned in the dining room after Eva and Hideyoshi left. Then their faces were destroyed WHILE the bodies were in the dining room. But because there were six bodies, any normal person would assume that there was an accomplice. I think so too but the identities of the accomplices will appear as I reason more. After the killer and accomplice(s) moved the bodies, they locked the shed using the key. I think a servant was involved. But thinking back to when the bodies were discovered, did Battler see everyone's face? NO! He never saw the corpse of Shannon, in face, the only people to see her corpse were Hideyoshi and Dr. Nanjo (I think). If these two were accomplices, Shannon's death may never have occurred at all. After Natsuhi put the new lock on the shed, she kept the key. As she is already suspicious from the door scribble incident, she could give the key to Shannon or someone else, they would have easy access to the shed and could release any other people who may have been faking their own death. This could mean that only one person died as the blood in the dining room proves that at least one person must have died. I also have major suspicions about Kumasawa. She never went down to the shed so she shouldn't have known about the ix deaths but the way she reacted to the blood in the dining room sounds like she knew about something beforehand.

7. This one's easy. Kinzo wasn't in his study when Natsuhi went in. If you read End of the Golden Witch, you'll find out why. But from the evidence in Episode 1, this or the "Natsuhi pushing Kinzo out the window theory" are the best I can think of that don't break the rules of Eva's receipt.

8. Is there any evidence that shows the chain lock was actually locked? Battler never saw it to be locked so who can say it was when Eva and Hideyoshi were killed. Thinking this, we can easily explain their deaths. But this also makes Kanon and Genji suspicious as they are the only ones to "see" the chain one piece. Natsuhi could be responsibly for the letter that reads' praise my name'.

9. This one is the most difficult for me to reason in Episode 1. My guess is that either Kumasawa is faster than we think or it was a trap, set up to stab anyone who walks down to the basement in the chest. The person who set up the trap didn't care who walked into it. It could have been the case where Kanon was killed and the killer escaped through the door Battler ran through.

10. If we assume Kinzo wasn't in the study when Natsuhi was in it when Eva put the receipt in the door, then we can think of how Kinzo died in the furnace. As he was burnt, there is no evidence that proves when he was put in the furnace. Just because the smell started wafting around the mansion at the time, doesn't mean that was when he was burned. My guess is that before the guests even arrived, Natsuhi, and maybe even Krauss, got Kinzo's body and put it in the furnace. They then set up some kind of timed stink bomb to send as foul smell through the mansion on the second day. Then, Natsuhi entered Kinzo's study to make it look like she spoke to him, then Eva stuck the receipt in the door, the during the second day, the stink bomb went off and everyone assumed he had died that day. Of course, in order to enter the study, Genj's key to Kinzo's study would also be needed, making him look more suspicious.

11. Maria's fault.

12. Some sort of trap was used to kill the three of the and that trap was set off by Maria. Then Maria used the internal phone line to sing to the four in the study and make them go to the parlour.

13. Maria placed the final letter before the other got there. It was another trap. Someone would've picked it up and read it. I think it said something like "stand in front of the portrait and make sure you're alone" or something. Natsuhi expected that she was going to be killed for some reason and made sure the cousins didn't get anywhere near the portrait.

14. I'm going to cheat a little bit and say for a fact that the bullet in her head came from a different gun. This is said in a later episode. This could mean that she shot herself and the bullet went through her head, then someone put a bullet from another gun into her forehead, and at the same time, stole the letter. But I think it means someone shot her from a distance and the letter was attached to fishing wire. Someone shot her then pulled on the letter to make it disappear. The killer wouldn't even need to enter the hall.

I hope this can give people some help. I'm not entirely sure about these and there is definitely room for doubt, but assuming only Genji, Kanon, Dr. Nanjo, Hideyoshi and Natsuhi are culprits, Episode 1 can be explained.

Tong · 2012-01-11, 01:47

Hmm, I might actually start reading this since I only watched the anime and from what I've heard doesnt do justice to the original novel...

I think I'll miss all the guro though

**Klashikari** · 2012-01-11, 01:50

In a way, the VN is much more unsettling and "graphic" with the descriptions. In fact, it highly depends how your imagination can run these details in your head.

Captain Bluebeard · 2012-01-11, 06:53

I agree, sometimes our imagination can be far nastier than images.
Let alone that almost all gore in the anime is censored.

Sauzer · 2013-07-18, 07:44

Finally started reading the VN )

I hope it's been long enough since the anime (was watching it when it first started, but while reading how everyone who read VN was trashing it, eventually stopped at... around ep 20 or so?)

Hope anime won't ruin completly my enjoyment of first 4 chapters.

I do kinda remember some parts of it

Spoiler for very heavy spoilers from umineko anime:

Or is it too late?

Anyway so far Ive gotten to the

Spoiler for Not sure if there's anyone left who hasnt read all of the VN or at least the 1st chapter:

One thing that worries me so far - is the first chapter of Umineko more like the first 1st or 2nd chapter form Higurashi (keichi and shion)? As in are the murders of the first chapter solvable in the first chapter from just reading the first chapter?

One thing I didnt like about Higurashi (I only watched the anime though) is that some stuff was unsolvable (at least for me),

Spoiler for higurashi 1st and 2nd chapter:

So that's what Im asking - are the murders solvable in a vacuum? Or does it take 5+ chapters before it starts making any sense at all? Can it be solved as Battler wants - explaining everything with humans?
Because if at some point it requiers something along the lines of "spirit of the Witch possessed person X and made them do Y or Z" I might aswell give up right now.

Spoiler for my very first suspects for the first killing:

Golden Bug-Hunter · 2013-07-18, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauzer

So that's what Im asking - are the murders solvable in a vacuum? Or does it take 5+ chapters before it starts making any sense at all? Can it be solved as Battler wants - explaining everything with humans?
Because if at some point it requiers something along the lines of "spirit of the Witch possessed person X and made them do Y or Z" I might aswell give up right now.

Umineko is much more 'fair play' than Higurashi was. In fact, having seen Higurashi before Umineko, I actually made the mistake of looking for some really crazy hypnotism / parasites / almost-but-not-quite-magic type explanation instead of 'keeping it real'. I'm not sure that it is solvable from just episode one, but once you get around the middle of chapter 3 of the VN when some important meta-mechanics are explained, I think you have a fighting chance.

2011-07-13, 18:54	Link #502
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	It happens after EP1. The exact mechanics of what's going on are vague at this point in the story, but Battler and the others find themselves in a place that's referred to as the Meta-World. Maybe it's the afterlife. Maybe it's a magical realm Beatrice created. Maybe Battler is hallucinating. Who knows? What you do need to know is that from here on out, Battler and Beatrice will battle in this world, observing the timelooping Rokkenjima Island from outside of it, like two people watching a movie. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2011-07-14, 02:53	Link #504
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Yea, which is why Kanon and Shannon were there, even though they were dead. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2011-07-15, 04:42	Link #507
C-chan A mere observer Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philippines Age: 27	Umineko always begin with back stories. Not to mention light moments which brings heavy drama and sadness once the murder begins. The mystery part is one thing the readers can enjoy dwelling while reading the characters' movements and theories. That's why most of the characters are likable. __________________ Notes of A Normal Highschool Girl Without love, it cannot be seen. Without love, magic cannot be seen. Without love, even the truth cannot be seen.

2011-08-03, 09:45	Link #511
Xyrius Cherubim The Observer Join Date: Jul 2011	yep, I agree. the first episode is the episode where you still think that the mysteries are solvable and you will (most likely) read thoroughly and try to remember any weird things you come into. lol that is also why I hate (well, just a bit, though) EP2 for repeating the whole murder case with only a few new story elements a little bit out of topic __________________ Last edited by Xyrius Cherubim; 2011-08-03 at 09:48. Reason: sentence fixation

2011-08-05, 23:34	Link #512
C-chan A mere observer Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Philippines Age: 27	Well, I think the whole murder part was repeated to be a challenge not just for Battler, but for the readers as well. __________________ Notes of A Normal Highschool Girl Without love, it cannot be seen. Without love, magic cannot be seen. Without love, even the truth cannot be seen.

2011-07-14, 17:06	Link #506
Meltyred Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	I found it really interesting as the second part made you question the character's personalities shown, and also their true nature. It doesn't just throw all that background information away, it infact recycles it and gives so many ideas for how the story went. The clues are in fact the murders, but to explain the murders is also another mystery. Then there's the anti magic vs. anti fantasy which makes you think that there are even more sides to the coin. It's like the ultimate catbox, but instead of 2 answers, you can have a infinite number of possible explanations depending on your view. The epitaph is another mystery, except it's more of a riddle.

2011-07-15, 04:50	Link #508
Meltyred Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	I only dislike genji, he's like a robot moving around....

2011-07-22, 02:54	Link #509
Kylon99 Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space	Ok, now that I've fixed my signature... I was going to say that it was really, really hard for me and everyone I know to get into EP1. The massive number of character introductions and how for such a long time nothing 'strange' happens to draw you in... It took me (and others) about 4 months to get more than 10 minutes into the narrative. 8) I think Ryukishi needs to work on this much more or get an editor... (yeah, it's too bad BT died... maybe he was doing this for him.) There are parts in later episodes where he just repeats the same thing over and over again, or drones on about stuff.... 8)

2011-08-07, 07:40	Link #513
Xyrius Cherubim The Observer Join Date: Jul 2011	yep....a challenge for boredom (persistence) and (probably) mind sharpness...lol __________________

2012-01-07, 21:17	Link #514
RandomAvatarFan Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011	Hey, in the TIPS, it talks about Kanon's and Shannon's names, I remember there was a conversation about it in EP1 as well as how they got to wear the One Winged Eagle. I'm scanning through the entire game right now looking for it, but was wondering if anyone knew off hand which chapter that was. Last edited by RandomAvatarFan; 2012-01-07 at 21:41.

2012-01-09, 00:31	Link #515
clinty456 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012	These are I think all of the mysteries in Episode 1. 1. The Witch's epitaph. 2. The letter and umbrella given to Maria. 3. What Rudolf wanted to tell Battler on the night of Day 1. 4. The gold bar Krauss showed to Natsuhi. 5. The markings on Natsuhi's door. 6. The six deaths (Krauss, Rudolf, Rosa, Kyrie, Shannon and Gohda) in the tool shed. Who the killer is and how the bodies got there and the blood in the dining room. 7. Kinzo's disappearance from his study. 8. Eva and Hideyoshi's deaths in the spare guest room. 9. How Kanon died. 10. How Kinzo was burned in the furnace. 11. The letter in Kinzo's study. 12. The deaths of Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa and the singing Maria in the parlour. 13. The letter of unknown contents Natsuhi had. 14. Natsuhi's subsequent death and the disappearance of the letter. 1. The epitaph would be hell to reason with from clues is Episode 1 so I'll skip over that. 2. It's possible that Maria is an accomplice who is only used to further strengthen the illusion of a 19th person. As was stated by Kyrie, it is unlikely that a 19th person exists. If they wanted to make their presence known, all they would have to do is walk in on dinner and greet everyone. I think Maria had the umbrella and the letter in her bag the whole time. This could also explain the appearance of the letter in Kinzo's study near the end of Episode 1. Maria was responsible for it all. 3. Again, this one is hard to think about as the only mention of it is near the end of Day 1 and even then, not much was spoken about it. Rudolf did, however, say that he thought he was going to die so that could mean that he knew about the plan or is an accomplice. But if he is an accomplice, he wouldn't have died straight away. This could mean that he faked his own death which is possible as his face was completely smashed, unlike Krauss's face, which was only half smashed. Rudolf could also have been speaking metaphorically and had really meant that Kyrie was going to have wild sex with him that night, though this is really unlikely. 4. All I can say is that the gold exists and Krauss managed to get his hands a bar. 5. This makes two people very suspicious. As I am a strong disbeliever of actual fantastical magic, this means the person who made the markings must have known about Jessica giving Natsuhi the charm. It's logical to assume that Natsuhi hung the charm on the inside doorknob, not the outside. So anyone walking past Natsuhi's room wouldn't see the charm hanging on her doorknob because it was the other side of the door. This means only Jessica and Natsuhi know about the charm given to Natsuhi. As the door's markings imply that Beatrice tried to enter the room but failed, it proves that someone knew the charm was hanging from the doorknob and also knew the charm's magical properties, implicating Jessica. Unless Natsuhi also somehow found out about what the charm can do, Jessica is the prime suspect for the scribbles. 6. I think they were poisoned in the dining room after Eva and Hideyoshi left. Then their faces were destroyed WHILE the bodies were in the dining room. But because there were six bodies, any normal person would assume that there was an accomplice. I think so too but the identities of the accomplices will appear as I reason more. After the killer and accomplice(s) moved the bodies, they locked the shed using the key. I think a servant was involved. But thinking back to when the bodies were discovered, did Battler see everyone's face? NO! He never saw the corpse of Shannon, in face, the only people to see her corpse were Hideyoshi and Dr. Nanjo (I think). If these two were accomplices, Shannon's death may never have occurred at all. After Natsuhi put the new lock on the shed, she kept the key. As she is already suspicious from the door scribble incident, she could give the key to Shannon or someone else, they would have easy access to the shed and could release any other people who may have been faking their own death. This could mean that only one person died as the blood in the dining room proves that at least one person must have died. I also have major suspicions about Kumasawa. She never went down to the shed so she shouldn't have known about the ix deaths but the way she reacted to the blood in the dining room sounds like she knew about something beforehand. 7. This one's easy. Kinzo wasn't in his study when Natsuhi went in. If you read End of the Golden Witch, you'll find out why. But from the evidence in Episode 1, this or the "Natsuhi pushing Kinzo out the window theory" are the best I can think of that don't break the rules of Eva's receipt. 8. Is there any evidence that shows the chain lock was actually locked? Battler never saw it to be locked so who can say it was when Eva and Hideyoshi were killed. Thinking this, we can easily explain their deaths. But this also makes Kanon and Genji suspicious as they are the only ones to "see" the chain one piece. Natsuhi could be responsibly for the letter that reads' praise my name'. 9. This one is the most difficult for me to reason in Episode 1. My guess is that either Kumasawa is faster than we think or it was a trap, set up to stab anyone who walks down to the basement in the chest. The person who set up the trap didn't care who walked into it. It could have been the case where Kanon was killed and the killer escaped through the door Battler ran through. 10. If we assume Kinzo wasn't in the study when Natsuhi was in it when Eva put the receipt in the door, then we can think of how Kinzo died in the furnace. As he was burnt, there is no evidence that proves when he was put in the furnace. Just because the smell started wafting around the mansion at the time, doesn't mean that was when he was burned. My guess is that before the guests even arrived, Natsuhi, and maybe even Krauss, got Kinzo's body and put it in the furnace. They then set up some kind of timed stink bomb to send as foul smell through the mansion on the second day. Then, Natsuhi entered Kinzo's study to make it look like she spoke to him, then Eva stuck the receipt in the door, the during the second day, the stink bomb went off and everyone assumed he had died that day. Of course, in order to enter the study, Genj's key to Kinzo's study would also be needed, making him look more suspicious. 11. Maria's fault. 12. Some sort of trap was used to kill the three of the and that trap was set off by Maria. Then Maria used the internal phone line to sing to the four in the study and make them go to the parlour. 13. Maria placed the final letter before the other got there. It was another trap. Someone would've picked it up and read it. I think it said something like "stand in front of the portrait and make sure you're alone" or something. Natsuhi expected that she was going to be killed for some reason and made sure the cousins didn't get anywhere near the portrait. 14. I'm going to cheat a little bit and say for a fact that the bullet in her head came from a different gun. This is said in a later episode. This could mean that she shot herself and the bullet went through her head, then someone put a bullet from another gun into her forehead, and at the same time, stole the letter. But I think it means someone shot her from a distance and the letter was attached to fishing wire. Someone shot her then pulled on the letter to make it disappear. The killer wouldn't even need to enter the hall. I hope this can give people some help. I'm not entirely sure about these and there is definitely room for doubt, but assuming only Genji, Kanon, Dr. Nanjo, Hideyoshi and Natsuhi are culprits, Episode 1 can be explained.

2012-01-11, 01:47	Link #516
Tong Many RPGs, Little Time Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: BR Age: 32	Hmm, I might actually start reading this since I only watched the anime and from what I've heard doesnt do justice to the original novel... I think I'll miss all the guro though __________________

2012-01-11, 01:50	Link #517
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	In a way, the VN is much more unsettling and "graphic" with the descriptions. In fact, it highly depends how your imagination can run these details in your head. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2012-01-11, 06:53	Link #518
Captain Bluebeard Detective, Witch, Pirate. Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Ruins of the Golden Land	I agree, sometimes our imagination can be far nastier than images. Let alone that almost all gore in the anime is censored.

2013-07-18, 07:44	Link #519
Sauzer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007	Finally started reading the VN ) I hope it's been long enough since the anime (was watching it when it first started, but while reading how everyone who read VN was trashing it, eventually stopped at... around ep 20 or so?) Hope anime won't ruin completly my enjoyment of first 4 chapters. I do kinda remember some parts of it Spoiler for very heavy spoilers from umineko anime: At least I don't remember who was murdered in any chapters or in what order. Though I do remember that Rose and Eva solved the riddle at one point and Evatrice with her bunnies. Very cute devils and lucifers. "I can explain everything with humans" and red text. Kinda remember that Beata showed up randomly in second part and then randomly dissapeared as a human who could be seen by everyone. Also remember the "SIGN IT!!!" Eva with a shotgun pointed at Battler "yep I did it" Also remember that at one point someone began suspecting that Kinzo was already dead on the very first day (or was it on the forums?) with the whole 18 people thing. At the very least I'm 100% sure that I didnt get past to the 4th chapters first killings and if I did I don't remember it at all. Or is it too late? Anyway so far Ive gotten to the Spoiler for Not sure if there's anyone left who hasnt read all of the VN or at least the 1st chapter: Kinzo dissapearing from his room in VN and the blood in the dining room. 1st thing I have to say - SCREW YOU ANIME!!! There should've been at the very least an additional one episode before the 6 killings. Sure there wasnt much action at first. But just end the first episode with Battler reading the epipath out loud. It's erie (unsettling (3rd language)) enough on it's own. The 3v1 was full of tension, Natsuhi's situation is more than sad. A competent director/story writer could make a very interesting anime out of this without a single drop of blood for 4 episodes. 'kay I'm sure that was disscussed to death. One thing that worries me so far - is the first chapter of Umineko more like the first 1st or 2nd chapter form Higurashi (keichi and shion)? As in are the murders of the first chapter solvable in the first chapter from just reading the first chapter? One thing I didnt like about Higurashi (I only watched the anime though) is that some stuff was unsolvable (at least for me), Spoiler for higurashi 1st and 2nd chapter: because it went into ghosts/he's mentally ill territory. I highly regret that I watched the series without thinking too much or trying to solve them and just went straight to the next episode (when I started watching Kai had already started airing). Which is why I really want to get into trying to solve Umineko mysteries, but. In hindsight 2nd chapter was easily solvable looking at Sonozaki killings in a vacuum and ignoring the whole syndrome. They're twins ffs. Shion switches places with Mion a couple of times and after thinking she killed Keichi, Shion commits suicide out of guilt or having nothing to live for anymore. I wouldn't have suspected just an accidental slip and it is likely that police would've closed the case like that (rather than "there are zombies walking"). The 2nd chapter did not rely on the syndrome that much. Shion went crazy in her own way, but not halucinating crazy and viewers can trust what they see. The first chapter however for me is unsolvable. Keichi is halucinating. You cant even trust what you see as a viewer. How are you supposed to know what's an illusion and what isn't and that it was illusions induced by supernatural paranoia to begin with? You can't rely on any clue when any clue could be a fake. Sure anyone can sweep it under a rug - he just went crazy and killed his two friends. the end. But that's not really mystery solving. So that's what Im asking - are the murders solvable in a vacuum? Or does it take 5+ chapters before it starts making any sense at all? Can it be solved as Battler wants - explaining everything with humans? Because if at some point it requiers something along the lines of "spirit of the Witch possessed person X and made them do Y or Z" I might aswell give up right now. Spoiler for my very first suspects for the first killing: Just posting this as a "what's going on in a mind of someone who's not very good at solving crimes and tries to figure out stuff in a clumsy way". Not asking for wether Im thinking in right or wrong direction or anything. Just posting it for people who already know what's going on to think "Cute" or "This guy doesn't stand a chance " For now borrowing the "Kyrie thinking" that Beata is one of 18 people. *People who could have given Maria the letter and the umbrella:* If someone walked up to Maria and said "Beatrice wanted to give you this and would be very gratefull if you did that". She would probably do as told and even say "Maria is Beata's messanger", but I don't think she'd also insist that it was Beata personally who had given her the letter. It was dark, heavy rain, wind and thunder so pretending to be another person to a nine-year old is possible. Kyrie - as she herself stated women ar obvious suspects (and I don't think a guy could walk up to Maria and say "I'm Beatrice"). The letter undermines Krauss position so Kyrie can benefit from it. And she seems quite a sharp person. Eva - same as Kyrie. Shannon - if the letter is a message from Kinzo, he gave Shannon specific instructions and ordered her to do it, she could pull it off. Kumasawa - I guess Beata would be this old by now. Doesn't seem to be as trusted by Kinzo as his furniture, but can't be ruled out completly. Jessica - perhaps not as oblivious or un-interested in the inheritance disscussion as she would like us to believe? Though she's very low on the list since, among other things, she doesn't gain anything from it unless she: a) wants Krauss to lose inheritance out of spite b) believes she has solved/will solve the riddle very soon Rose was the one who left Maria in the first place, while Natsuhi does not/did not believe such foolishness and the letter hurts Krauss. They're both out. *Murderer's of the first six people:* It could be a chain reaction - Rudolf afraid of being killed strikes first. Someone kills Rudolf. Shannon and Gohda are unlucky witnesses. Last people standing take the bodies to the shed and in "leave no witnesses" fashion are also killed untill only one or an allied party remain. Other than that. Natsuhi - The Anime barely scratched the surface of her pain. Her whole life is all but wasted, she's tossed aside by the man she gave everything for. She might have done it alone. The bloody doorknob (I think it was only doorknob in the VN as opposed to the whole door of anime?) is quite easily explained. But why leave Eva alive, the one she arguably hates the most and would benefit the most if left alive? Unless ran out of time/plans to kill later? Eva and her husband - Almost too obvious, but both their motives and benefits are massive. Eva and her husband are very close and if one is involved the other would very likely follow, though both could also do it by themselves. Leaving Natsuhi alive and "painting" her door is also something Eva would do. George - Also benefits greatly. He very likely knows how much trouble his father is in. This murder also makes him the next successor. Shannon is the only person he wouldn't want to kill, but "leave no witnesses"/she wouldn't forgive him. Or it was all triggered because he was actually rejected by Shannon off-screen and put the ring on her finger in half-mad state after the killings. He'd need to get into the mansion first, but Im pretty sure Shannon did not begin to lock the doors straight away and went to Gohda first (will need to recheck). Or he got the keys from servants room in guest gouse. Damn I really need to get some info on key distribution later. Genji - If ordered by Kinzo. Though I got the impression Kinzo just wanted to sit by and watch stuff happen. Kinzo - One way or another he's a dying old man with questionable mental stability. He wants to have an intillectual game with his children while all they do is split his fortune as if he was already died. *People who deffinetly DID NOT pull this off:* Maria - a 9-year old kid. Even if she's somehow involved she cannot physically accomplish this. And sure she know's the symbol, but how long it would take her to draw one that large using a friggin' ladder. Kannon - a weakling, who can't even pick up a bag of fertilizer. Unless they all line up in the shed and stand there while he hits them one by one. Kumasawa - Same logic as Kannon only because she's too old. The bodies were moved. and even if not everyone was killed at dining room and/or wounded people are forced to carry the dead, these guys are not he ones who can force them. Last edited by Sauzer; 2013-07-18 at 08:15.