2012-05-09, 18:16 | Link #662 |
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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Both characters and visuals are important but I think it’s important to appreciate where they fit into what makes a show like Hyouka a hit.
Like every other fanbase, anime fans have preferences for certain creators, genres, and franchise. And certainly, like other fans, moe fans often like high profile, high production value shows. Across multiple fandoms, I have noticed these preferences are not easily swayed, and that people often preallocate their spending with these preferences in mind. All of this favours larger projects and established creators. For many years – certainly from 2006-2009 – Kyoto was the definite favourite among moe fans. They raised the bar on production values and polish in moe anime with Air and Haruhi, then followed those shows up with a string of hit moe shows that remains pretty much unparalled. I suspect they made a lot of new moe fans in the process – Kanon 2006 wasn’t the first moe show I saw and loved, but it is the one that made me realize I was a moe fan. After that, things got a little shakier. K-On’s second season and movie, along with Disappearance, were hits. Munto and Nichijou were not. Endless eight sold well only because it was Haruhi, and rather poorly by the standards of the franchise. Hyouka reminds me a lot of Clannad, Haruhi, and K-On. Nichijou did not. That’s important, because I think many KyoAni fans are nostalgic for the studio’s greatest hits. Hyouka scratches that itch. That’s something no other show this season can lay claim to, and the competition isn’t offering up a lot of compelling alternatives like the Hanasaku Iroha/AnoHana/Steins;Gate trio did last spring. Visuals are important for a number of reasons. Not only do people like eye candy, but people associate high quality visuals with high quality, high profile shows. Good looking visuals are a great way to build anticipation in advance of a show airing – when people are less likely to have allocated their spending. (I notice Westlo raised the question of Angel Beats. It does indeed have some animation issues here and there. It also has an OP that absolutely oozes “quality production”, right where everyone is going to notice it.) Characters? They’re important, especially since they can serve as “icons” among fans. And certainly, moe fans often take a deep interest in certain characters. But I would be careful not to underestimate the importance of other elements. People come to love characters through the shows they appear in, and many moe characters are popular because of their stories – I suspect many people like Key’s characters not because those characters are their “type”, but because their stories touch them. And I would certainly say that Madoka’s characters are as popular as they are because people loved the show and its style, Then you have the example of Nadeko in Bakemonogatari. People like Bakemonogatari because it’s edgy, witty, and heavily stylized – so everything that most other moe shows aren’t and which Nadeko isn’t either. But many Bakemonogatari fans are general moe fans too. Nadeko appeals to the side of these fans who like more conventional moe. And she also contrasts extremely well with the general tone of the show. I suspect this made her far more noticeable in Bakemonogatari than she would have been in other shows.
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2012-05-10, 03:52 | Link #663 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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The fact that so many shows have low production values has its basis rooted in pre-late-night-TV anime mentality, where you'd make an anime to sell to children. Whereas OVA would be to sell the animation product directly. So this line of thinking that anime have to be low quality because they're just a marketing tool to sell toys or original works is an archaic one, and I'm glad technology and other factors have moved the bar higher. Which is why it pains me whenever a show with high potential gets undeserving financial (under)investment. Some Japanese producers are blind to the fact that high production values pay off, and what they should be selling is animation first and foremost, not toys and bedsheets. That being said, I have to congratulate KyoAni for stepping it up. I can fault them all I want for adapting boring stories, but they are successful because they are forward thinking and actually give their products proper love.
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2012-05-10, 03:55 | Link #664 | ||
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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Hyouka Novel 1 could be massive... DRR LN 1 ended up doing over 300,000 after only selling under 30k prior to the anime.... Hyouka could do something similar.. Anime on track to outsell any FMP series, LN on track to outsell any FMP LN, Kadokawa made the right call with their KyoAni 2012 series.. and if a 6th entry in this decade old series was announced it would be even more of a win for them. |
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2012-05-10, 13:08 | Link #665 | |
North American Haruhiist
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 43
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I will add that I am still very bitter over Kadokawa apparent choice of choosing Hyouka over more Haruhi, but it would seem that Kadokawa is on the track of having another hit. Whether it breaks 10k or breaks 20k still remains to be seen. Last edited by AbZeroNow; 2012-05-10 at 13:39. |
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2012-05-10, 14:03 | Link #666 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Regarding old properties, Kadokawa also produced Another (first revived in the form of a manga adaptation) this year. The author immediately followed up with plans to write a spin-off and sequel.
Reaching into their back catalog (with KyoAni settling on Hyouka) could be be a strategy that Kadokawa is experimenting with. The old titles may have flown under the radar a decade ago, but the light novel market is different now. Quote:
Until the anime industry can stand on its own without dependence on external partners, it's impossible to sell animation first and foremost. |
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2012-05-10, 15:38 | Link #667 | |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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2012-05-10, 15:45 | Link #668 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2012-05-12, 01:06 | Link #669 | |
Lets be reality
Join Date: May 2007
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Also how is Nyarko a fujoshi show and it has no chance of getting anywhere near 30k... it's numbers will not get to Horizon levels which is a 20k show. Lol of course Haruhi will sell more merchandise for Kadokawa than Hyouka, no one is going to argue that point. (And the same is true for K-ON! outselling Haruhi with ease...) The point is that Haruhi is the only legit "big gun" Kadokawa have in their arsenal and considering the author is a one trick pony (look @ the reviews for his works prior to Haruhi) who isn't prolific as someone like Nisio... the smart thing to do for Kadokawa is to try and use KyoAni to build up other/new properties while they have Haruhi in the wings. But anime fans would rather Kadokawa put all their eggs in one basket.... |
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2012-05-12, 17:52 | Link #670 | |
North American Haruhiist
Join Date: Oct 2010
Age: 43
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As far as Nyarlko, one of the main character is a trap, and the latest episode has some BL elements to it(one-sided though), and I just see Hastur being popular among the fujoshi(and I would not be surprised if there were tons of Hastur X Mahiro doujins in the next few months). It also appears that the series is also helping the Nyarlko light novels to sell well too. And I wouldn't mind Kadokawa's actions so much if I had some inkling that more Haruhi anime was in the works right now. Raildex fans know that there is an Index movie and possibly a third season of Index(I can't remember right now if 3rd season of Index was announced or just a rumor) in the works although they don't know exactly when. -monogateri fans know that SHAFT is going animate the whole series. For a franchise that has sold as much as Haruhi has, and for a franchise that has enough material for 2 cours of anime to be made, the silence from Kadokawa is deafening. If Kadokawa just gave us a clear sign that we will see more Haruhi, then that will lessen the complaints that we have when we feel jerked around everytime KyoAni makes an annoucement, and it isn't Haruhi. I am hard-pressed to find another major selling anime franchise whose fans are treated worse than the fans of Haruhi. Last edited by AbZeroNow; 2012-05-12 at 18:06. |
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2012-05-12, 18:51 | Link #671 | |
俺様祭り
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: France
Age: 33
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Besides, the series has been pretty much exclusively reaching for the male otaku crowd from the beginning, I doubt many fujoshi have even given the show a try - their attention's set on other series this season! Kuroko no Basket is steadily gaining attention on Stalker after its bad start. Put the DVD and the BD together, and you get a prediction that's coming close to 6k - I suspect it's not going to move a whole lot in the next few weeks, but it might see quite a bit of a boom shortly before the release date, thanks to the introduction of certain characters. Not that I expect it to end up being a groundbreaking hit, but I reckon it's not too bad for a WSJ adaptation of that caliber, and a second season doesn't seem out of reach considering it happened for NuraMago which achieved either close or slightly lower figures. I was about to compare it to Medaka Box, too, but that'd be pretty harsh... good try, Media Factory :<
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2012-05-12, 19:40 | Link #672 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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I mean, even VisualArt's gave up on trying to secure KyoAni for Little Busters. |
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2012-05-12, 19:43 | Link #673 | |
Not Enough Sleep
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 48
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2012-05-12, 23:33 | Link #675 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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As with all things, you've got to take the good with the bad. KyoAni offers high standards of quality, but to maintain that quality, they restrict the number of productions. The lesson to be learned is that if your plan is to adapt a lengthy manga/LN, and you're committed to multiple seasons released on a predictable schedule, don't hire KyoAni. |
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2012-05-13, 08:51 | Link #676 | |
Senior Member
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KyoAni must be making an awful lot of cash. So why not use some of that cash to enlarge their studio (in the sense of how many animation teams they have), and their production capacity with it? That can be done without sacrificing high standards of quality. And if given a choice between the KyoAni pros/cons (consistently high quality work, but you may never see your favorite KyoAni shows animated to completion), and the SHAFT pros/cons (occasional lateness in getting episodes out and the occasional animation issue, but generally high quality work and you will get to see your favorite SHAFT shows animated to completion), I'll gladly take the SHAFT pros/cons. The occasional rushed/messy/late episode is a lot less irritating to me than one or more of my favorite anime shows being left in development limbo. I'm totally with AbZeroNow on the points he's making.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-05-13 at 09:12. |
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2012-05-13, 12:29 | Link #677 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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Expanding business isn't all that easy to do and usually involves borrowing more money. This goes for any type of business. One of our own AnimeSuki members (I can't remember who it was) once compared Sunrise to KyoAni and concluded that Sunrise, with all their production flakes, was a much more competent studio business-wise. So I wouldn't be surprised to see KyoAni fail if they expand. They probably know it too.
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2012-05-13, 12:44 | Link #678 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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Well, I think this topic probably should move to the Kyoto Animation thread, but I believe that Animation Do (Kyoto Animation subsidiary) announced they're working on their own production not too long ago. That's probably the easiest/best way to expand their capacity while preserving their overall hands-on, high-attention-to-detail approach.
In any event, I understand the disappointment, but I think it's better to not feel "entitled", and just appreciate what we have.
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2012-05-13, 13:45 | Link #679 |
Senior Member
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I strongly disagree. I think that when companies leave good, paying, loyal customers out in the cold, that fans have every right to speak out against that. And in fact I think that fans should speak out against that, because it's good for companies to know when they're pissing off some of their customers.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-05-13 at 13:56. |
2012-05-13, 14:01 | Link #680 | ||
Pretentious moe scholar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 37
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One thing I seldom see mentioned in regards to Kyoto is that they do not "single source" their projects. Traditionally, they've tended to alternate between Pony Canyon and Kadokawa as publishers.
The Pony Canyon projects have been very consistent, switching source material only once (from Key to K-On! in 2009). Kadokawa, meanwhile, has been far less consistent in it's projects. This year is a bit different because they're working on a Kadokawa project and an original. Perhaps Pony Canyon is waiting for more K-On! to become ready for adaptation? Or perhaps they're somehow involved in the original as well, I know that Kadokawa actually did have some involvement with Munto. Quote:
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