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Old 2012-05-27, 18:51   Link #2061
Squarecrow
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Agreed on that part. How dare Blizzard had the nerve to tell its customers to pay extra for security? They are suppose to be the ones doing the protecting. If the authenticator is so essential, they should send each customer a free one. I find the idea that Blizzard want us to pay for an authenticator to be outrageous.
Authenticator is not essential. Blizzard just knows people are stupid.

•Don't get phished and don't go to gold buying sites
•Don't download anything untrusted or go to random websites
•Use script/ad/Flash/Java blocking
•Use a real time malware blocker and scan your computer at least monthly as well w/ multiple scanners
•Keep everything up to date (Flash, Windows, AV, Java is you use it, Browser)
•And the most important thing is use a different password on every site and don't use your main email address on every site

You definitely don't need an authenticator anymore than any other site. 99.9% of the time an account is compromised it is the user's fault.
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Old 2012-05-27, 18:56   Link #2062
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post
Authenticator is not essential. Blizzard just knows people are stupid.

•Don't get phished and don't go to gold buying sites
•Don't download anything untrusted or go to random websites
•Use script/ad/Flash/Java blocking
•Use a real time malware blocker and scan your computer at least monthly as well w/ multiple scanners
•Keep everything up to date (Flash, Windows, AV, Java is you use it, Browser)
•And the most important thing is use a different password on every site and don't use your main email address on every site

You definitely don't need an authenticator anymore than any other site. 99.9% of the time an account is compromised it is the user's fault.
My Bank didn't advise that I get an authenticator. Steam doesn't advise me to get an authenticator. Nor does Ebay or Amazon. So why is it that Blizzard has told us to get an Authenticator?
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Old 2012-05-27, 19:00   Link #2063
Squarecrow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
My Bank didn't advise that I get an authenticator. Steam doesn't advise me to get an authenticator. Nor does Ebay or Amazon. So why is it that Blizzard has told us to get an Authenticator?
Because so many players are stupid and get scammed by gold sellers.

Blizzard's servers haven't been compromised so it's up to the player when it comes to account security. It's their choice to use an authenticator or not. They don't have to if they are smart it's just extra insurance if they want it. It's also FREE on iPhone/Android phone so...
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Old 2012-05-27, 19:07   Link #2064
Newprimus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokkan View Post
On the story side of things, I take no offense since D3's story is poorly written (though not as awful as SC2's writing) and does not even come close to approaching D2's levels of epic.
D2's story was epic?

Are you sure that's not the rose-colored glasses talking for you?
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Old 2012-05-27, 19:29   Link #2065
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post
Because so many players are stupid and get scammed by gold sellers.

Blizzard's servers haven't been compromised so it's up to the player when it comes to account security. It's their choice to use an authenticator or not. They don't have to if they are smart it's just extra insurance if they want it. It's also FREE on iPhone/Android phone so...
Why do I need an android/iphone? My bank sends me an SMS for authentication whenever I need to make a big transfer. The NicoNico website also sends me an SMS whenever I purchase points. Why do I need a smartphone to get authenticated?
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Old 2012-05-27, 19:36   Link #2066
Squarecrow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Why do I need an android/iphone? My bank sends me an SMS for authentication whenever I need to make a big transfer. The NicoNico website also sends me an SMS whenever I purchase points. Why do I need a smartphone to get authenticated?
You don't need anything. You can be completely secure on your end without an authenticator.
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Old 2012-05-27, 19:43   Link #2067
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post
You don't need anything. You can be completely secure on your end without an authenticator.
You are missing my point; other websites, when they worry about hacking, give us a built-in authenticator service that can work on ANY phone. That doesn't require me to download anything. Blizzard could have gave everyone the SMS authenticator by default. But they didn't.
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Old 2012-05-27, 19:56   Link #2068
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
You are missing my point; other websites, when they worry about hacking, give us a built-in authenticator service that can work on ANY phone. That doesn't require me to download anything. Blizzard could have gave everyone the SMS authenticator by default. But they didn't.
Just bolding in case people fail to read. And yea, I'd think Banks are even more prone to hacking attempts due to you know, involving tons of money. And they have something that's simple as a website cookie.

It's not like we aren't aware that many people screw themselves over and get hacked.
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Old 2012-05-27, 20:08   Link #2069
Squarecrow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
You are missing my point; other websites, when they worry about hacking, give us a built-in authenticator service that can work on ANY phone. That doesn't require me to download anything. Blizzard could have gave everyone the SMS authenticator by default. But they didn't.
And plenty of other websites don't have SMS authenticators, what's your point? Some game company needs to offer multiple free services to protect your account when you can do it yourself? And even if you do get compromised they'll restored your stuff too. Blizzard isn't a bank, it's just a game company. So what if you lose some virtual property for a couple days?

Why don't my electronics or car come with free LoJack? What if they get stolen? That's not even my fault!
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Old 2012-05-27, 20:21   Link #2070
Demi.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post
Because so many players are stupid and get scammed by gold sellers.

Blizzard's servers haven't been compromised so it's up to the player when it comes to account security. It's their choice to use an authenticator or not. They don't have to if they are smart it's just extra insurance if they want it. It's also FREE on iPhone/Android phone so...
This sounds like typical blizzard fanboy logic. Did you not read my post a couple pages back?

Blizzard has been compromised in the past, and they have lied about it in the past. They were only willing to come clean after they found a solution to the problem. I'm 99.9% sure it's on their end, because as I said, I keep my computer very secure, and I even had that impenetrable fortress that is supposedly an authenticator, their very own authenticator which I payed 6.50 for. And it didn't do a shred of good. I've played dozens upon dozens of online games for many years, and only with Blizzard have I had to deal with this bullshit.

Also a comedic moment I had while trying to buy the authenticator. While trying to purchase the authenticator it kept giving me "We currently cannot ship to this address", despite purchasing the US only version, and living in the US. Blizzard couldn't even figure out the predicament I was in until they opted to just do everything automatically on their end. Several hours later. Any normal person would have just said fuck the authenticator. And now I kind of wish I had done the same.
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Old 2012-05-27, 20:24   Link #2071
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post
Blizzard isn't a bank, it's just a game company. So what if you lose some virtual property for a couple days?!
In case you don't realise, my entire savings (and likely yours too), exists as a virtual number in a bank's server. There is no difference between virtual and physical property.

Blizzard is turning themselves into a trading hub with real virtual money that has value. At some point they had passed "just a game company" and became something else.
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Old 2012-05-27, 20:29   Link #2072
Squarecrow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
This sounds like typical blizzard fanboy logic. Did you not read my post a couple pages back?

Blizzard has been compromised in the past, and they have lied about it in the past. They were only willing to come clean after they found a solution to the problem. I'm 99.9% sure it's on their end, because as I said, I keep my computer very secure, and I even had that impenetrable fortress that is supposedly an authenticator, their very own authenticator which I payed 6:50 for. And it didn't do a shred of good. I've played dozens upon dozens of online games for many years, and only with Blizzard have I had to deal with this bullshit.
If it is their fault then sure I'll take back what I said and I'll apologize if you want. If it is their fault.

So far no one has proved it's server-side or even that they've had an authenticator attached beforehand. They just don't want to live up to their mistakes.
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Old 2012-05-27, 20:36   Link #2073
Keroko
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post
Authenticator is not essential. Blizzard just knows people are stupid.

•Don't get phished and don't go to gold buying sites
•Don't download anything untrusted or go to random websites
•Use script/ad/Flash/Java blocking
•Use a real time malware blocker and scan your computer at least monthly as well w/ multiple scanners
•Keep everything up to date (Flash, Windows, AV, Java is you use it, Browser)
•And the most important thing is use a different password on every site and don't use your main email address on every site

You definitely don't need an authenticator anymore than any other site. 99.9% of the time an account is compromised it is the user's fault.
Ran your entire checklist. Always did everything (hell I'll even add "no mods installed" to the list). Still got hacked on my WoW account a couple of years back. Nothing a quick password swap couldn't fix, but they still got in.

What 'mistakes' did I make?
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Old 2012-05-27, 21:07   Link #2074
risingstar3110
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post
If it is their fault then sure I'll take back what I said and I'll apologize if you want. If it is their fault.

So far no one has proved it's server-side or even that they've had an authenticator attached beforehand. They just don't want to live up to their mistakes.
You missed the point, squarecrow. This is not a blame game where you can decide whether the customer is more at fault, hence shift the whole responsibilities onto them and avoid losing face/ reputation etc. The whole point here is what each party can do to prevent it happening or to mitigate the damage in the first place, and whether Blizzard set up their priority in line with customers.

Blizzard decided to provide the game on online platform (even when the whole thing can run offline) to run their DRM and cash auction houses for a should-be offline game. They themselves created and increased the risk of customers getting hacked (comparing to traditional offline game), so the gold farmers can dig in and make the profit from some other kids' dad Master Card. And they also know that they can't prevent people from going into 'random websites' or force them to have a series of net/computer protection. Murphy's law and such

So they should have counter-measures to prevent and mitigate the damage themselves. Let's see how Blizzard deal with it first. But similarly, BP can't expect the worker to not blowing up the oil drill , and hence does not have any safety measures for deepwater oil spill because "the contracted worker should know better". Or the government just legalise weeds, abusive drugs and expected "the customers should know better"
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Old 2012-05-27, 21:07   Link #2075
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post
And plenty of other websites don't have SMS authenticators, what's your point? Some game company needs to offer multiple free services to protect your account when you can do it yourself? And even if you do get compromised they'll restored your stuff too. Blizzard isn't a bank, it's just a game company. So what if you lose some virtual property for a couple days?

Why don't my electronics or car come with free LoJack? What if they get stolen? That's not even my fault!
Wow, that's one of the worst analogies I've seen in years. I think you should level up before attempting to use the sarcasm skill.

When you purchase something like cars and electronics, it's a physical piece of property that you take. The transaction between you and the seller ends the moment you receive the item unless it is defective. Their responsibility was merely to deliver the item in proper shape and form.

On the other hand, when you bought Diablo III, you have to play on their server. No questions asked. You have to do it. Thus, they have more of a responsibility to prevent their side from having compromises because the product you bought is not just a one-time thing. It is ongoing. You are paying money to play this game on their servers.

Considering that Blizzard will partake in real money deals in the near future, they may not be a bank, but there's definitely more at stake here.
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Old 2012-05-27, 22:03   Link #2076
Squarecrow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Ran your entire checklist. Always did everything (hell I'll even add "no mods installed" to the list). Still got hacked on my WoW account a couple of years back. Nothing a quick password swap couldn't fix, but they still got in.

What 'mistakes' did I make?
I don't know. Let someone else use your computer? Got hit by malware on a trusted site that's usually safe? Used public Wi-Fi?

Are you saying that Blizzard's server was compromised at this time? Any news articles at the time of your compromise?

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Spoiler:
Well this is a good point. They do have extra counter-measures though, the free authenticators. Of course not everyone has an iPhone/Android phone. Like you said though they can't force people to protect themselves. Even if they did have SMS authentication people would still get hacked. They also do have the damage mitigation - account restores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Spoiler:
Seems like it went over your head.

Unless Blizzard's servers were compromised then the analogy holds true. They have protected their side until proved otherwise. They have no responsibility to protect your account from your mistakes. You're expecting something extra that isn't necessary just because you *think* it's so simple and easy for them to implement. Just like you shouldn't be entitled to have LoJack on everything expensive just because it can prevent and stop theft. There's a point where a company has to say no. And electronics can be much more expensive than a virtual account and they aren't something that magically reappear after they're stolen. Life is unfair. Or better yet, life isn't always what you want it to be.
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Old 2012-05-27, 22:08   Link #2077
aohige
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My Monk just solo downed both Infeno Skeleton King & Butcher, both WITH full stack of valor.

AWWWWWW yeah.

Spoiler:
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Old 2012-05-27, 22:08   Link #2078
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post
Seems like it went over your head.

Unless Blizzard's servers were compromised then the analogy holds true. They have protected their side until proved otherwise. They have no responsibility to protect your account from your mistakes. You're expecting something extra that isn't necessary just because you *think* it's so simple and easy for them to implement. Just like you shouldn't be entitled to have LoJack on everything expensive just because it can prevent and stop theft. There's a point where a company has to say no. And electronics can be much more expensive than a virtual account and they aren't something that magically reappear after they're stolen.
Umm... that still doesn't justify your faulty logic. In fact, I'm not even sure what you are getting at. So apparently without proof, the user is always wrong and Blizzard has no faults with their server. Umm... ok. Could we start with a more neutral premise? Oh sure, I wasn't neutral either, but it's not like I didn't consider the high probability of a keylogger or user fault. Or at least I did more so than you're considering the other side.

It doesn't matter if electronics are more expensive than this.? I'm not arguing if it's Blizzard's fault or not in my previous post.

Your analogy:
Quote:
Why don't my electronics or car come with free LoJack? What if they get stolen? That's not even my fault!
My response:
Quote:
When you purchase something like cars and electronics, it's a physical piece of property that you take. The transaction between you and the seller ends the moment you receive the item unless it is defective. Their responsibility was merely to deliver the item in proper shape and form.
They cannot be compared. It doesn't work. Your relationship with the vendor for goods such as cars and electronics ended after they sold it to you. Of course they are not responsible for theft later on! They have no obligation to you anymore.

Quote:
Life is unfair. Or better yet, life isn't always what you want it to be.
Very wise, but also irrelevant. Considering how you've misinterpreted Vallen's post to the point of responding with irrelevant things and probably mine, I think you may have to read a bit more carefully

In any case
Quote:
Battle.net Authenticator - Diablo III Edition (United States Only)

1
$6.50 USD




Order Status:
Pending
(Cancel order)



Shipping Method:
Next Day Standard
Let's see if this thing will help or not;.
__________________
Let us start here from Square one. No... from zero!
You do not wish to know anything. You wish only to speak.
That which you know, you ignore, because it is inconvenient.
That which you do not know, you invent.

Avatar/Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480
MyAnimeList || Reviews

Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2012-05-27 at 23:27.
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Old 2012-05-27, 23:32   Link #2079
Jazzrat
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Join Date: Jun 2004
In regards to all the compromised accounts, this post sums it up nicely on the situation.

Anyone who works in end user support before will know it all too well when it comes to malware and the ongoing trend of targeting online game account information that has transferable values (steam doesn't cause you can't transfer or sell your games to others).

This isn't just a Blizzard problem however, it's looks exacerbated in comparison to other games because of the volume of users. There's 10 million + users on WoW alone not to mention another 6.5 million Diablo3 players, what's is the chance of having someone in those 16.5 million + user who had their account and pc compromised?

Why is Blizzard pushing users to get an authenticator?
Because it's a waste of manpower and bad for the PR when people have their account compromised. There's many ways to get into someone's computer, I had malware infection before just plugging in a usb drive. I got myself an authenticator because I know there's no 100% chance of me ever being fully secured with my laptop barring total isolation and Diablo 3 is the kind of popular games these malware will target.

And FYI, Blizzard password is not case sensitive which is really stupid. They should have adopted better password security cause people can just brute force the account.
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Old 2012-05-28, 00:05   Link #2080
aohige
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
The bigger you are, the bigger the whine.

Although I've always wondered how secure my steam account really is, considering I have a credit card tied to it.
It seems like one keylogger could screw me pretty bad.

I just got like 3 shotted in Inf Act 2. From like the 4th mob pack. Ouch.
Well, back to the gear grind...
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