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Old 2012-09-05, 21:28   Link #561
Mindblower
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
I think it would be nice, if Yamamoto's bankai gets stolen and then he pulls out the badge with his VC's bankai.
lol i would die laughter, but its deff gonna get stolen, state. there so way theyd let smoething powerfull remain, unless it can only be used by the head capt. or maybe its power harm the user as well, or maybe there can only be one way to use it. buuuuuuut even if were being trolled and this is only a stunt to not be underdone by naruto (with the relieving of tobi's real i.d.) and gets his bankai stolen itd be nice to see it once, and exactly how i works.
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Old 2012-09-05, 22:43   Link #562
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Got dem chills seeing the old man going bankai. the bad guys seem to be dropping like flies, whereas there is still a couple bankai's left to be shown on the side of SS.

Plot twist: The zero squad are the real bad guys.

Edit: And Aizen was good all along.
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Old 2012-09-06, 00:13   Link #563
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Originally Posted by Black-Cat-Sama View Post
As I mentioned though, everything is probably rushed because the arc will be a long one and Kubo is clearing out all the unnecessary clutter. The Stern Ritters needed their alphabet theme, so he had to fill those spots out. Right now I think he's just slaying the ones that don't matter--kinda hurts that we didn't see some of their powers though (NANANA Jakoop and Mohawk Guy for example.)
as much as i'd like to know their powers i'm also kind of glad that i dont and i could just imagine they are quincy-like and make sense. after the lame explanations of kenpachi's opponents' powers, i wouldnt be surprised if these 2 guys could fire mohawk bullets or turn into a bowl of 5 alarm chili or something equally dumb and unprecedented since shitritters have no rhyme or reason to their abilities. a bad trend that the fullbring arc started
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Old 2012-09-06, 01:05   Link #564
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Originally Posted by Bassoonicmayhem View Post
To me, it seems as if Kubo feels pressured into showcasing more bankais now, ever since the butterflizen debacle. Perhaps when Aizen gets his 'Get Out of Jail Free' card, we might see his as well (if he is even released from prison).
I've always had the sneaky feeling that Aizen doesn't have a Bankai. Sure, he's certainly powerful enough to manifest one, but there's something "wrong" with him that renders him unable to do so. Maybe it's due to some element of his "spiritual genetics" that's missing, or due to the nature of his Zanpakuto (or the sheer power of its Shikai). I can't be the only one thinking that his constant drive to become stronger and change his very nature seems to be out of a need to compensate for something...

And before anyone asks how he could have ever made Captain without having a Bankai, just think about it for a second...
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Old 2012-09-06, 01:09   Link #565
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Originally Posted by Bassoonicmayhem View Post
How so? We've never seen it, just speculated, so if it one-hit kills this baddy (which it won't) why would it have had no affect on Aizen?
Cause there's a good chance it's Ichigo-type bankai. Not exactly a worthy thing to fight against illusions. (well, with exception of that part when Yamamoto could just slash Aizen wide open instead of releasing Entetsu Jigoku, when he grabbed his arm... but he could do so without bankai as well).

Also, and it's probably the main reason - it's not like he lacked raw power to defeat Aizen till the very end.
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Old 2012-09-06, 02:09   Link #566
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
I've always had the sneaky feeling that Aizen doesn't have a Bankai.
I could actually see that being true, seeing how his shikai mindbends people so well and I think that would have been a nice twist to the story if Kubo had established it (or maybe he will).

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I can't be the only one thinking that his constant drive to become stronger and change his very nature seems to be out of a need to compensate for something...
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Originally Posted by Knjaz View Post
Cause there's a good chance it's Ichigo-type bankai. Not exactly a worthy thing to fight against illusions. (well, with exception of that part when Yamamoto could just slash Aizen wide open instead of releasing Entetsu Jigoku, when he grabbed his arm... but he could do so without bankai as well).

Also, and it's probably the main reason - it's not like he lacked raw power to defeat Aizen till the very end.
Okay, okay, okay. I'm not going to reread the chapters that Yama lost to Aizen in because frankly, I don't care. I just want to state a simple notion that this is not an attack on you, but is particularly a frustration with Kubo's writing style or lack thereof: you don't have to pair similar fighting styles (element vs. element; mindbender vs. mindbender; long distance vs. long distance; ext.) for every fight. I think there was only one fight where Kubo went against his own rules, but it was either so long ago or unimportant I have forgotten it.

I can't see why Yama would not defend himself or his people at full power during the Winter War, except for the fact that he had already been affected by Aizen's shikai and potentially feared hurting his comrades. That's the only reason, but then again, I'm pretty sure they are all taken out quite quickly if I recall. What makes this new villain such a threat that he gets to see Yama's bankai two chapters into their confrontation (and Yama should be well aware of his ability to take your bankai away!) rather than Aizen other than the fact that Kubo feels obligated to showing Bankais because he didn't when the oldest Captains were fighting the Espada and Yama was fighting against Aizen. Or Kubo's just trying to get a quick cash in of fan, who may have dropped the series a long time ago, but may pick it back up hearing about Yama's bankai release (it's probably something this simple).

I'm apologize, I didn't mean to rant and rave, but sometimes, when I look over and see the 30 volumes of Bleach I have, a twig of regret and sadness pulsates though my being seeing how this title has been so poorly handled. There was potential.
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Old 2012-09-06, 03:11   Link #567
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Edit: And Aizen was good all along.
I still hold out that aizen was the real good guy and only did the things he did because he viewed soul society as wrong. Plus hes my favorite character so of course I would like to see him go out on top.

if kimish can do it with itachi, tite can do it with aizen lol
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Old 2012-09-06, 03:16   Link #568
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I've been rereading the Fake Karukara Town Arc recently, since I've been collecting the books as they have been released, so it's been interesting going through THAT war again and comparing it to what looks like the first stage of the 1000 Year War Arc.

It looks like, at the very least, Kubo has learned from his mistakes- not dragging out fights that don't matter, for one. Especially when they seemed to stick to a formula back in the previous arcs.

Bad guy and good guy trade blows all confidently, then the bad guy released his sword and then the good guy would release theirs and, if they have done so before, they'd reveal a new technique and win.

(On an unrelated note, a lot of people were annoyed at Stark's death at the hands of a Shikai- personally, I found that it makes sense considering the guy was pretty much fighting around 4 Captains and never really seemed to be on defence until he got stabbed in the back, after what must have been just a period of time of Shunsui just observing and waiting for the right moment to strike- BIG unrelated though XD)

But back on this arc! It seems that things are developing at a faster rate with this wars focus bieng on the things that matter which is probably leading up to, I think, a period of time where Soul Society is "destroyed" and Ichigo comes to it only to find that he is too late. Sort of like in Naruto with the fights versus Pein and how they all moved at a very fast rate with lots of changing in perspectives and it felt like a countdown to SOMETHING- and that something was Pein nuking Konoha and then Naruto arriving too late.

After that I guess we'll see a big change in the dynamic of the series, since I still feel as though the Arc has only just begun.

Off course I am more than willing to admit/believe/suspect that I am totally wrong :P
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Old 2012-09-06, 06:03   Link #569
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
I've always had the sneaky feeling that Aizen doesn't have a Bankai. Sure, he's certainly powerful enough to manifest one, but there's something "wrong" with him that renders him unable to do so. Maybe it's due to some element of his "spiritual genetics" that's missing, or due to the nature of his Zanpakuto (or the sheer power of its Shikai). I can't be the only one thinking that his constant drive to become stronger and change his very nature seems to be out of a need to compensate for something...

And before anyone asks how he could have ever made Captain without having a Bankai, just think about it for a second...
Maybe its just the nature of the sword he had, that it simply didn't have a bankai. He was already naturally very powerful.;

And secondly, we know how he became Captain - he had everyone fooled in thinking he had a water based zanpaktou, and he even showed them a fake bankai, so as far as they all knew, he did infact have 1 until he explained his powers.

I simply don't buy that old Yamma's bankai will get stolen. There is absolutely no way he'd pull such a stupid ass stunt like that if he thought his power could get stolen.
It is his power, it simply cannot be stolen from him, nor can anyone else wield it.
Juha Bach musta done something seriously bad a 1000 years ago - that has Yamma so mad that he wants to completely and utterly annihilate him that he is pulling out his ultimate weapon to do so.
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Old 2012-09-06, 07:13   Link #570
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Originally Posted by MihawkXGP View Post
Juha Bach musta done something seriously bad a 1000 years ago - that has Yamma so mad that he wants to completely and utterly annihilate him that he is pulling out his ultimate weapon to do so.
Well, if I understood correctly, 1000 years ago Yama decided not to kill him, due to some reason.

So I guess this time his decision has changed due to death of Choujiro and others. He indeed cares for his subordinates (except for that Entetsu Jigoku in FKT, hehe)
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Old 2012-09-06, 08:35   Link #571
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so given what we have so far, we can safely say that Bach is a shinigami that's either younger or the same age as yamamoto who learned the quincy teachings and rebelled against SS for some reason.

yama keeps mentioning how he's so cruel when it comes about his subordinates lives so this either means that he was a former captain or a former captain commander and yamamoto overthrew him

there's no way Bach could seal something so powerful as Ryujin Jakka because just like with Ichigo, it won't work....not because he's "special" or anything but simply because their bankais are too vast for the medalize vessel to "contain"...it's prob like trying to fit a bowling ball into a soda can.

now yamamoto is going to loose this fight because squad 0 needs a reason to intervene but mostly because that Bach guy will prove to be more powerful since from what we've seen he's pretty much the final boss of bleach.

and to beat the final boss you have to meet one requirement, you have to be a MC and yamamoto is no MC so he will fall.
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Old 2012-09-06, 12:55   Link #572
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Originally Posted by prakash123 View Post
did they refer to themselves as quincies?i dont recall.all i remember is them being alluded as the vandenreich(maybe some kind of a next level quincy).like how theres hollows and arrancarrs and espandas.but the fundamental is they were quincies.i dont remember ishida having any kind of special ability like some of those guys and quincies can suddenly steal bankais?
Mayuri established that they were Quincies after investigating the incidents at the beginning of the arc + the fact that they use the 5-pointed star and the constant wearing of white, they are indeed Quincies.

That's exactly my point, we know Quincies use long distance weapons (bows and arrows of numerous design and spears like Driscoll) and even their sword (Seele Scneider) is an arrow for their bow, but these guys show up and start turning into apes and all that other weird crap.

Them stealing Bankais is the one thing that is justified from what we kjnow about Quincies. Quincy have always had access to spiritual gadgets and such and are known for it. (Uryu's capsules to make the blue fire, his pendant, seele schneider, etc). How the stealing actually works makes no sense, but whatever, that's the least of my concerns
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Old 2012-09-06, 13:01   Link #573
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
as much as i'd like to know their powers i'm also kind of glad that i dont and i could just imagine they are quincy-like and make sense. after the lame explanations of kenpachi's opponents' powers, i wouldnt be surprised if these 2 guys could fire mohawk bullets or turn into a bowl of 5 alarm chili or something equally dumb and unprecedented since shitritters have no rhyme or reason to their abilities. a bad trend that the fullbring arc started
true true, I like how you think lol. knowing less of their random abilities=better. Surprisingly, mohawk bullets would make more sense than turning into an ape, or becoming a copy of your opponent =P
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Old 2012-09-06, 14:26   Link #574
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
I've always had the sneaky feeling that Aizen doesn't have a Bankai. Sure, he's certainly powerful enough to manifest one, but there's something "wrong" with him that renders him unable to do so. Maybe it's due to some element of his "spiritual genetics" that's missing, or due to the nature of his Zanpakuto (or the sheer power of its Shikai). I can't be the only one thinking that his constant drive to become stronger and change his very nature seems to be out of a need to compensate for something...

And before anyone asks how he could have ever made Captain without having a Bankai, just think about it for a second...
If he doesn't have a bankai, it'd be a bit of a plot hole. Because it's a fact that those who've achieved bankai are able to release to shikai without saying their zanpakuto's release command. And this is something Aizen has taken advantage of time and time again.

In fact, even when we saw him perform the hypnosis ceremony on someone for the very first time (Barragan), he did not say his zanpakuto's command to release to shikai in order to initially trap him under its spell.
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Old 2012-09-06, 21:43   Link #575
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If he doesn't have a bankai, it'd be a bit of a plot hole. Because it's a fact that those who've achieved bankai are able to release to shikai without saying their zanpakuto's release command. And this is something Aizen has taken advantage of time and time again.

In fact, even when we saw him perform the hypnosis ceremony on someone for the very first time (Barragan), he did not say his zanpakuto's command to release to shikai in order to initially trap him under its spell.
Not to say that you're wrong (my "no Aizen Bankai" theory is a theory after all), but it's fairly common in fighting manga and thematically similar works for the author to dispense with "shot calling" requirements as a story progresses. Call it laziness, or economy of words, or whatever, but it would be a very Kubo thing to do...

And even if it is intentional, there's nothing saying that Aizen's hypothetical shortcoming isn't limited just to an inability to manifest a Bankai, and everything else, up to and including surpassing the requirement to verbally release his Shikai, is perfectly attainable for him.

Also, Aizen did verbally release his Zanpakuto when he conquered Hueco Mundo (chapter 371). Granted, the implication is that he already had Barragan, etc., enthralled before then, but we don't know the exact requirements of how it enthralls someone, or when exactly the hollows became enthralled. Our only source on that kind of information isn't exactly trustworthy...
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Old 2012-09-06, 22:31   Link #576
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maybe the reason Aizen never revealed his bankai was because Kubo was keeping it for this final arc.

i wonder who will bust him out of jail...hope it will be Ichigo cause I can't wait to see the stupid look on his face when he hears what he has to do haha!
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Old 2012-09-06, 23:30   Link #577
sayde
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
Not to say that you're wrong (my "no Aizen Bankai" theory is a theory after all), but it's fairly common in fighting manga and thematically similar works for the author to dispense with "shot calling" requirements as a story progresses. Call it laziness, or economy of words, or whatever, but it would be a very Kubo thing to do...

And even if it is intentional, there's nothing saying that Aizen's hypothetical shortcoming isn't limited just to an inability to manifest a Bankai, and everything else, up to and including surpassing the requirement to verbally release his Shikai, is perfectly attainable for him.
You don't have to justify your theory to me any further. Afterall, I suppose there really are numerous ways to explain it. The main point is that unless such explanations are provided, it would still present a plot-hole.
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
Also, Aizen did verbally release his Zanpakuto when he conquered Hueco Mundo (chapter 371). Granted, the implication is that he already had Barragan, etc., enthralled before then, but we don't know the exact requirements of how it enthralls someone, or when exactly the hollows became enthralled. Our only source on that kind of information isn't exactly trustworthy...
The hypnosis ceremony is quite simple. Aizen unsheathes his zanpakuto, ensures his target is looking at the blade, and then releases to shikai at any given moment. Obviously, due to the nature of the ability, using ones senses to know the exact moment he's released his weapon would be virtually impossible (assuming there's any visual or audible cues to be noticed in the first place). And while our only source of info may be from none other than Aizen himself, Kubo didn't really have a compelling reason to fill Aizens exposition to Unohana with lies. Afterall, once you're under hypnosis, its too late to do anything about it. So its not like knowing how you were trapped in the first place is going to help.

In Barry's case, I'm 99% positive Aizen released to shikai, the moment he held his weapon in front of him upside down and finished the ceremony right before the first words of his proposition speech. How the other hollows were caught under the spell, if at all, is of no concern since the rest of the scene only shows the illusion from Barry's PoV. Now Kubo's made Aizen say his release command on multiple occasions--the scene you're referring to in chapter 371 is one such example. Speaking of which, he seems to prefer stating the command immediately before dispelling an illusion. So this would be long after he goes shikai--which is the dilemma. Having said that, there have also been times when Aizen has not stated a release command to dispel his illusions. The most prominent example is when Hitsugaya stabbed Hinamori. But there have been more times too. (Like dispelling the illusion against Komamura before roasting him w/ hado 90) or dispelling the illusion after he sliced Hitsugaya up in central 46. So what does this mean?

IMO, Kubo makes Aizen state the "shatter" release command mostly for the readers benefit when he feels it's necessary. I've never felt inclined to give Kubo anymore credit than that. But hey, I could be wrong. Maybe Kubo's fridge logic will pull through. He'll bring Aizen back to the plot, give him his shinigami powers back with his original abilities in-tact and actually take the time out to come up with explanations that will fill-in the minor hole or two involved with not having a bankai (if that's indeed the case). Or he could just give him a bankai and come up with some reason for not using it before. *shrugs*
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Old 2012-09-07, 13:13   Link #578
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my commander can beat up your commander!

also, troll bankai teaser?
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Old 2012-09-07, 17:11   Link #579
Sabaku Kyu
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I'm itching to see Yamaji's bankai! Though I'm more curious about whose sword was held up to Urahara's shoulder (yeah yeah...10 to 1 it's GJ or Nel. Just show us already!).

As for whether Aizen having bankai or not... I don't see someone of Aizen's genius and obsession with perfection not obtaining bankai if he had the potential. But I suppose it's completely possible that Kyouka Suigetsu's has some special limitations in exchange for the power of complete hypnosis. There's typically a few reasons characters won't use certain powers

A) They're so powerful they're never forced to wield it
B)It's too dangerous to nearby allies
C) They don't like revealing it openly
D) There's a heavy price for using it.

So assuming Aizen has bankai, it's probably a combination of A and D why we've never seen it.
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Old 2012-09-07, 22:17   Link #580
Marcus H.
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But I suppose it's completely possible that Kyouka Suigetsu's has some special limitations in exchange for the power of complete hypnosis.
It probably is a power-compression Bankai like Genryusai's and Ichigo's. It probably allows him to capture people inside that person's personal illusion, but also requires Aizen's sword to either make contact with an enemy's body or sword.
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