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Old 2012-09-16, 06:26   Link #161
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I figured MS techs are family related. itachi and sasuke sharing the same techs because they have the same blood and whatnot. Almost that if you are lucky enough to get MS, you have a certain special tech that goes along with it, but it being family specific.
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Old 2012-09-16, 08:49   Link #162
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Maybe it's just that you need a pair of eyes to use those techniques. With only one eye you develop others.

Especially the flames of Amaterasu seems to be impossible to position, without the stereoscopical view of two eyes.
Amaterasu only uses one eye though.
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Old 2012-09-16, 09:13   Link #163
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correct me if im wrong.didnt madara use his susanoo to shoot some kinda amaterasu fireballs?or was itcahi?or was it both of them?

and if madara and itachi did then we can assume that madara has amaterasu since itachi also had it and used susanoo to shoot it?
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Old 2012-09-16, 12:52   Link #164
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correct me if im wrong.didnt madara use his susanoo to shoot some kinda amaterasu fireballs?or was itcahi?or was it both of them?

and if madara and itachi did then we can assume that madara has amaterasu since itachi also had it and used susanoo to shoot it?
It was Sasuke.
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Old 2012-09-16, 15:37   Link #165
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we were told that a 3rd power awakened in both MS eyes by itachi. it wasn't contigent on amaterasu, it's its own power. madara may or not be able to use amaterasu. i kind of expect him to have kamui actually. that would explain how he is living in that pocket dimension as an old man, if that is indeed the kamui dimension. it would explain his quick arrival to obito and it would also imply that he is obito's direct ancestor which i assume still. plus it would make training obito to use kamui a lot easier if madara knew it already
- i do wonder about this crevasse between the real world and the next. at first i figured, hey madara has an eternal sharingan. the power doesn't die so of course he'd be stuck between planes. except he does die, i think. then i wondered if his grey hair was from old age or did he use the rinne jutsu on obito which may have taken away his remaining vitality. probably not…just random thoughts

- as far madara having kamui, i would argue against that. i can't really measure how "quickly" madara arrived to the scene considering the last time we saw him, edo tensei was ended and he obviously engaged in one last battle with the kages before departing. plus it doesn't look like he kamui'd to the scene. plus I'm not sure how much training would be required since he doesn't use it at long distances like kakashi does
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Old 2012-09-16, 16:38   Link #166
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So much confusion....
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Old 2012-09-16, 17:05   Link #167
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Given how Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu and Susanoo are clearly part of a set, Madara having access to all three wouldn't be a bad assumption.
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Old 2012-09-16, 19:59   Link #168
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Given how Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu and Susanoo are clearly part of a set, Madara having access to all three wouldn't be a bad assumption.
except that sasuke is itachi's brother and doesn't have tsukiyomi. he has the power to manipulate and extinguish amaterasu which itachi didn't have. in other words, there doesn't seem to be any standards to MS powers. Madara may very well have a MS power we haven't seen yet (in addition to perfect susano'o)
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Old 2012-09-16, 20:19   Link #169
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except that sasuke is itachi's brother and doesn't have tsukiyomi. he has the power to manipulate and extinguish amaterasu which itachi didn't have. in other words, there doesn't seem to be any standards to MS powers. Madara may very well have a MS power we haven't seen yet (in addition to perfect susano'o)
I guess my question then is, does tsukiyomi have defined parameters or is it just generic name for mangekyou related genjutsu...in the fight with sasuke and danzo, tobi narrates that sasuke has a weak version compared to itachis because itachis alters time. does tsukiyomi mean a genjutsu that alters time. if so, itachi is the only one with it...then how is this moon plan suppose to play out?...im bored is all
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Old 2012-09-17, 01:23   Link #170
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Where exactly was it stated, that Itachi didn't have this power?
Maybe he just never used it.


Probably all the Sharingans have the same powers, the user just needs to learn them. Just like with all the other Jutsu: All the Ninjas have Chakra (except maybe Lee), but not everyone is able to use it for Kage Bunshin.
It was never stated that he didn't have the power, but when the jutsu was first used, Jiraiya commented on the fact that it is a black flame that wouldn't extinguish except on its own after 3 days I believe. This is during Itachi's visit to Konoha after the third died...

So I mean, Jiraiya having some clear cut knowledge on it would hint that turning off the jutsu prior would be impossible for anyone using it before...but yeah, since nothing was stated, can't be sure.
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Old 2012-09-17, 02:47   Link #171
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
except that sasuke is itachi's brother and doesn't have tsukiyomi. he has the power to manipulate and extinguish amaterasu which itachi didn't have. in other words, there doesn't seem to be any standards to MS powers. Madara may very well have a MS power we haven't seen yet (in addition to perfect susano'o)
Hard to say for sure. Sasuke never called "tsukuyomi" when casting the genjutsu, but his eye was bleeding so it must have been an MS genjutsu, and they said you need to unlock Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu to use Susanoo. So Sasuke must have tsukuyomi and Kishi has probably left it intentionally vague whether Sasuke has used it or not.
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Old 2012-09-17, 05:56   Link #172
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itachi can put out amaterasu, he did it in chapter 390. But I dont think he has control of it like sasuke does.
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Old 2012-09-17, 07:03   Link #173
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Guys, what the hell are you talking about this far in?

It can't be any more clear-cut.

To unlock Susano'o, you need to activate the 'power' in both your eyes.

Itachi activated Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.

Sasuke has Amaterasu (err, Itachi forehead-poke) and Kagutsuchi (the power in his right eye used to add shape manipulation to Amaterasu...Enton).

Then we see Obito (Kakashi) and Shisui with a different MS jutsu from Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.

Now guys, where is the confusion?
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Old 2012-09-17, 09:53   Link #174
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The X Factor Madara doesn't know about from Obito is Sasuke. In fact Sas is an X factor for Obito also and we don't know Obito's true motivation for helping Sas the way he did.........
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Old 2012-09-18, 12:01   Link #175
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Given how Tsukiyomi, Amaterasu and Susanoo are clearly part of a set, Madara having access to all three wouldn't be a bad assumption.
Well he should atleast have Tsukiyomi considering his plan is to reflect an Eternal Tsukiyomi off the moon to end all conflict on the planet.

I take all these fights as a joke now considering there are so many skillsets the bad guys have that Kish himself can't explain why they aren't using more effective powers to end this conflict.

Reminds me of Bleach where a majority of the Captains rather get their ass handed to them by Aizen rather than use their Bankai.
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Old 2012-09-18, 12:58   Link #176
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It was Sasuke.
Lol I was totally off.thnx for the inf
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Old 2012-09-18, 19:19   Link #177
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The X Factor Madara doesn't know about from Obito is Sasuke. In fact Sas is an X factor for Obito also and we don't know Obito's true motivation for helping Sas the way he did.........
It wouldn't surprise me if he had intended to give Sasuke the Rinnegan (since he wanted to sync him up to the Geddou Maze or whatever it's called) and then have him resurrect Madara. It's likely outright resurrecting someone costs you your life (otherwise why wouldn't Nagato have risen Yahiko?), and it's better to have someone else do that than you.
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Old 2012-09-18, 22:33   Link #178
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yahiko was dead he was just a puppet like the others
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Old 2012-09-19, 00:18   Link #179
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Wasn't it mentioned that Amaterasu, Tsukiomi and Susanno were the basic Mangeyeko Sharingan techniques? Then there were also unique ones like Kamui and Shisui's. People say Shisui was never seen using the other techiniques but he never killed his best friend, Itachi instead killed him (assisted suicide :P). And also Itachi did fire something out of his Susanno (When Bee, Naruto, Itachi were all targeting Nagato's Chibaku Tensei) "Yasaka No Magatama" third treasure inherited from the gods for Susanno. My thoughts anyways, now back to the Chapter!

Could be Madara in the "Between this and the other World" area still curious as to how he would have eyes? guess it will play out. Can atleast now understand that when you come back as a zombie you still have your eyes, seen by Itachi and Madara. 602 will probably just be Obito with the old geezer (Hunter, Lol) chatting it up in what ill call Limbo. Still interesting though, never been let down once by Kishi with Naruto except when the Anime has filler episodes but whatever.
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Old 2012-09-19, 00:20   Link #180
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Chapter 602 discussion thread has been created. Please move all relevant discussion to the new thread.
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